invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[Yoss]

A clip from Frankie Boyle's New World Order last night on BBC 2.

Sadly far too low res to read the number plate, it's not just my crappy taking a picture of the telly picture. 

[LightBulbFun]

ah cool! someone also posted that scene in the one shite per picture thread  

It is a shame that the reg is not visible, because its a white on black plate, which means its a pretty early Model 70, (I think the latest Model 70s I have seen on white on black Plates was on an L reg, but I think every white on black plate Model 70 I have seen has been an AC So far, I have not actually seen any pictures of any other K reg Invacar Model 70 apart from TWC!)

[Jmac]

Hi LBF ,  Have you seen the American pickers episode with a invacar on it . There is a clip on YouTube,search for American pickers drive pint sized cars . Sorry I can't do the link thing . I couldn't find the full episode anywhere it was on the History channel, the guy had a few different invalid carriage in his collection . I hope you find it if you haven't seen it .

[LightBulbFun]

20 minutes ago, Jmac said:

Hi LBF ,  Have you seen the American pickers episode with a invacar on it . There is a clip on YouTube,search for American pickers drive pint sized cars . Sorry I can't do the link thing . I couldn't find the full episode anywhere it was on the History channel, the guy had a few different invalid carriage in his collection . I hope you find it if you haven't seen it .

I know one episode of that show "London calling" I think where one of the people they visit has a Tippen Delta

and I THINK theres another where they drive a Model 70 thats in the US, but Im not 100% sure on that  and only saw a fleeting moment (I recall the US number plate being over the engine vent at the back and thinking thats not very good for the poor thing)

ah yes here we go, thanks for the tip on what the youtube, I knew I had seen a moment of this before and it had been bugging me until now

 

 

the guy who owns that Model 70 also has a number of other Invalid carriages and at least 1 or 2 more Model 70s   I wonder if the guy has an internet presence at all, I would love to talk to him about his Model 70's and also get them properly IDed for my records

 

you can read about the guy who owns that Model 70 a bit here  

https://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/06/automobiles/collectibles/06INVACAR.html

[Jmac]

You should contact him if you can , I saw the full episode, the owner was a invalid carriage enthusiast, he really enjoyed owning them and the history . You might have some information about his cars he doesn't know.  He might want his cars added to your list ! 

[LightBulbFun]

ah cool stuff yeah I just not sure if he has an internet presence or not, its something ill have to look into at some point

cool to hear about the AC all weather, I had read about that in stuarts 1st book  

I do wonder what other extinct invalid carriages are still hiding away somewhere! on that note you wouldn't happen to know what an Invacar Mk11 is? its listed in the DHSS Model to maker model cross reference chart in the book, but its not talked about otherwise

[LightBulbFun]

3 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

I'll have a look in my Ministry master catalogue,if it's anywhere it will be there

Awesome thanks

[LightBulbFun]

Oh very cool! thank you for those photos  

its inresting with the head lamp cowling it makes it look a bit older then the Mk10 (also interesting how they talk about the specific Model of wheelchair its designed to carry)

for comparisons sake heres a Mk10

 

 

does that book of yours go all the way to the Model 70?

[LightBulbFun]

12 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

No,it's dated December 1959,there's around 20 different makes and models in it. A lot of my stuff is fir the villiers engined models,as the model 70 doesn't interest me so much.

ah cool stuff! the Mk11 would of been the latest Invacar then 

do you know of any Model 67 that are on the road/are in drivable condition? I know of 1 nice one in a museum in Australia and thats about it sadly, i know of a few Model 67s here n there in the UK but they are all barn find condition and none are on the road AFAIK? trying to register one of those again must be fun! 

to be fair although Mk12s are more common then Model 67s, I only know of 1 of those thats on the road! (that one being JBY503J)

but hopefully it will be joined by XWC468F eggs Mk12c in good time 

[busmansholiday]

With the different government contracts for them, cannot you put in a FIA request. Invacar or not, the contract details must be recorder somewhere.

[LightBulbFun]

41 minutes ago, busmansholiday said:

With the different government contracts for them, cannot you put in a FIA request. Invacar or not, the contract details must be recorder somewhere.

im not sure which government department you would send that sort of FIA too? definitely worth a shot tho, might help us make sense of the contract numbers on the VIN plates  (and might also help explain the AC Model 70 chassis numbers aka if the starting letter means anything?)

 

switching gears quickly to the whole 410Kg/414Kg thing , he did get back to me eventually and curiously enough MPH759P which is a post "face lift" Model 70 says 410Kg on its V5, rather then 414Kg of VES108S (XEV88S)

im curious if thats just because MPH759P is a relatively early "face lifted" Model 70 and they had just not updated the official spec yet, or if something else changed on Later Model 70s which drove the weight up enough to have to be changed on the V5? or of course maybe AC Never updated the spec while Invacar may have done so? sadly I have not seen the V5 of a 1978 AC Model 70 to directly compare to VES108S, or a V5 of a 1976 Invacar Model 70 to compare to MPH759P for that matter

(I could very much see the rollover bar they fitted to new cars from about 1975/6 onwards adding 4Kg to the total weight.)

 

[busmansholiday]

im not sure which government department you would send that sort of FIA too? 

 

In those days it would have been either the Health and Social Security or Transport who purchased them. My bet is HaSS, so try DHSS these days.

[somewhatfoolish]

Given the Invacars were binned off around the millenium I suspect any paperwork about them has long since been sent to landfill.

[LightBulbFun]

I wonder? https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Invalid Vehicle Service&_ps=60

I know  in one of the FIAs egg sent, one of the responses was that the national archives might have something, looks like they may have something, but im not 100% what exactly

 

BTW the "how many left" thread/car show thingy got me wondering

most rare cars have been spotted by someone on here out on the road driving around

but I wonder did anyone ever spot an Invacar out and about post 2003-4 mass withdrawal? (I know a couple people here spotted a couple at car shows but i wonder if anyone ever just happen to run into one on the road?)

[LightBulbFun]

*engaging over excited mode*

so at the hammond gathering, there was a nice old lady who I think originally owned the cars or such, and I got talking to her about invacars  and at the end she asked for my details as she said she knew someone with an Invacar for sale, she didn't know any details about it otherwise, but of course I was very interested, so I wrote down my details for her

and just now the lady called me and gave me the details of the person with the invacar, and I just called him just now  

and I think the conversation went very well  

it turns out he has 2 Model 70s one thats "road legal" runs (but is mid way through a fuel tank change) and one thats one thats a "spares" car, in that theres no registration number etc but AFAIK its intact etc (if not slightly scorched on one side from a shed burning down next to it) he also has a load of spare parts

the guy was very nice to talk to, and we a good chat about invacars in general, he was heavily involved with them back in the day and its how he got his 2 and a bunch of spare parts

he says he wants them to go to a good home, to someone who actually appreciates what they are and their history etc, and not to someone who will just end up selling them for profit etc,

and id like to think he thinks im the former rather then the later  he says that there is someone else who has been bartering with him over them for about 5 years now, but that he does not really want to sell them to that guy

as for the price he is asking for the 2 Model 70+ spare parts, he is asking £1800 (he said thats the price him and the other potential buyer sorta agreed to so I would not be surprised if he would ideally like a bit more), which I think is very reasonable for 2 Model 70s and spare parts, but is sadly a bit out of my budget (the Invacar slush fund is at about £850ish inc the GoFundMe donations)

I did tell him about autoshite and my thread on here so hopefully he will check it out and see just how much of an invacar nutter I am

im hoping something in time can be worked for me to acquire his Model 70s and spare parts  (the conversation was only 20 minutes or so, so sadly did not get a chance to ask if would want to sell just the runner or something like that) although I do wonder if someone here would want to go halves?

the really cool thing is the running Invacar Model 70 is REV451R, the Model 70 that featured in the Ali-G movie  which is very cool as I have been wondering what happened to that one, as it shows up as SORN, So I was wondering if it was still around and if so who has it?, and indeed it is! apparently it was a privately sold example, which might explain its weird  chassis number, that I pulled up

so yeah all very exciting for me! and im very thankful to the lady who took me details and and passed them on for me! and hopefully something will come of this! (I mean already im very happy because I was able to find out what happened to REV451R )

[Datsuncog]

Positive developments indeed! Great to discover the whereabouts of REV, plus another very useful contact...

Re. FOI/FIA requests to government departments about the invalid carriage programme  - I'd say your best bet is to try the National Archives/Public Records Office first, as central government is under enormous pressure to ensure paper records are destroyed or handed over to Public Records as soon as they're outside the statutory retention period (usually 7 years), since secure storage costs for government files are astronomical.  I highly doubt the Department of Health would have anything on their current files about a programme that was wound up 16 years ago - in Departmental terms, it's ancient history.

[egg]

Interesting stuff. So with the fuel tank swap on REV451R - is he replacing it with another Invacar one or going the bespoke route like Zel? 

What part of the country is he in do you know?

[LightBulbFun]

On 5/13/2019 at 5:28 PM, egg said:

Interesting stuff. So with the fuel tank swap on REV451R - is he replacing it with another Invacar one or going the bespoke route like Zel? 

What part of the country is he in do you know?

um he did not mention specifically, however going by the fact he has a large stash of parts I think an actual Model 70 one

as for part of the country, the conversation didn't really go that way we just sort of had a good invacar talk, talking about the history of his 2 Model 70s, what he did back in the day etc,   so I never actually got his location exactly (well done me...)

but luckily using my 1337 sleuthing skills (aka googling the phone number) shows that he is roughly situated somewhere that luckily aint too far away in the scheme of things I dont think  (roughly the same distance that Zel is from me if im gauging things up on google maps correctly)

he very much knows his Invacars thats for sure including internal DHSS stuff by the sounds of things for example he mentioned how they modified the fuel tank mounting, because in the original setup, they had welded brackets to the tank, but in a front end crash that would rip the tank apart, so they modified things to avoid that, but that setup creates a water trap which can lead to fuel tanks rusting out, as Zel found out, I knew about the water trap from TPA/Zel, but I did not know about the reasoning behind it all  when he mentioned the fuel tank thing, he gave some sort official code for the modification, sadly I cant recall what it was)
 

[egg]

I'd be more than happy to check them out for you if it goes that way.

[LightBulbFun]

thanks for the offer! right now I dont think it will go anywhere as I simply dont have £1800 sadly, I do hope he signs up to the forum so we can have more good old fashioned casual talk about invacars  but its good to know your willing to go check em out,  I do want to call the guy again tomorrow or something to get more details but im worried about being a bother....

[egg]

So is the 'spares' car probably just a normal (not privately owned) Invacar that escaped the crusher do we think?

[LightBulbFun]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

So is the 'spares' car probably just a normal (not privately owned) Invacar that escaped the crusher do we think?

aye indeed, he says he got it from his local invacar garage which he knew very very well, but was told by the garage that it must never be driven on the road, as they where meant to and this is the Governments official words apparently "Mutilate them beyond economic repair" (as in this is what the DHSS told Invacar garages to do to Invacars when they where being scraped) so I imagine they would of been in for a bollocking if it was spotted on the road at the time

and for this reason at the time he never bothered figuring out its reg etc, and he just used it off the road. (so it did run at one point in time), im sure these days it would not be an issue to go about getting it back on the road

[somewhatfoolish]

I might be up for an AS group buy if there's any interest in that, especially if it keeps them out of the hands of a flipper. Depending on the what the spares consist of Zel and DW might chip in too.

[LightBulbFun]

22 minutes ago, somewhatfoolish said:

I might be up for an AS group buy if there's any interest in that, especially if it keeps them out of the hands of a flipper. Depending on the what the spares consist of Zel and DW might chip in too.

an Autoshite bike... stick that next to the Rover and the Jag, would make for one hell of a lineup

im thinking @egg when do you think you could go have a poke at them?

I wonder if I should give you his Phone number, and you can call them to to visit on my behalf?

(as I think yeah even if I cant afford it at current, its a good idea to figure out what exactly im working with here, especially if I do go down a group buy, or go halves with someone)

[LightBulbFun]

Yay another Model 70 on the road! although its still showing up as untaxed on the DVLA (but he says its taxed and MOT and insured, it does show up as insured via https://ownvehicle.askmid.com/?web )

(also to make dollywobbler feel a bit better, its a Model 70 that handles hills even worse then TWC does  )

[egg]

@LightBulbFun Having volunteered, I've now looked at my diary and seen I'm pretty busy (including working Saturdays) until the late May bank holiday...

But some free time may crop up, I'll just have to keep you posted for now.

Possibly this Sunday...

[LightBulbFun]

2 minutes ago, egg said:

@LightBulbFun Having volunteered, I've now looked at my diary and seen I'm pretty busy (including working Saturdays) until the late May bank holiday...

But some free time may crop up, I'll just have to keep you posted for now.

Possibly this Sunday...

Ah its alright dont worry about it

ill PM you their Phone number just incase you do have some free time that you want to spend looking at Model 70 Invacars  

[LightBulbFun]

to all the nay sayers saying the Q plate would be a big obstacle to overcome 

 

 

im rather proud of this moment

[LightBulbFun]

obligatory petrol station shot

 

 

(and some slightly* cheeky white on black number plates I notice! LOL)

[LightBulbFun]

9 minutes ago, plasticvandan said:

fully legal now,even though never fitted originally

I thought the cut off was 1975? (even though it was 1973 originally back in the day)

or are they doing it on a 40 year rolling basis now with the whole historic tax thing?