horrid yamaha

[paulplom]

That looks like asda petrol. Get rid.

[tobyd]

I have wondered what it does to what must be the fairly sensitive measurer contraption within. I'll see about a breaker bar now I've used it to crack all the hard nuts and need to torque them all back properly.

 

I have no idea what to do with that petrol. It might be one for the councils horrible waste team to deal with but thats expensive (£57) and I bet they just tip it down the storm drain anyway. If I had a decent freezer I think I could freeze off the water content, remove the petrol and rust content. filter the rust out with a wine filter or some jay-clothes or something and feed it through the mower or a bit at a time in the Suzuki then tip the mostly clean water and rust content down the foul drain? I considered boiling off the water for a minute before it dawned on me how poorly considered that might be.

 

 

half-heartedly poked around the carbs earlier, Will need a lot more carb cleaner or maybe just new carbs. 1 of the mixture screws is jammed but i think i can extract it. all 4 pilot screws are jammed and im not sure about extraction for those just yet bit i'll investigate that. likely drilling into them and knocking a hex key in and turning out but its pretty sketchy. all 4 float needles are shot but the rest doesn't look to bad. i'll carb cleaner them tomorrow which hopefully will remove the rest of the grot and get some of the jets and things soaked and clean then start working out whats needed to rebuild it.

 

did some ekynomiks on bits which was a bit sobering. Head gasket and a few bits for that is circa £50, carb bits i'm estimating at another £100 since all the gaskets are shot and most of the o-rings are and i'll need pilot jets.I did see if anyone had a second hand sprocket and chain set that wasn't too bad but no wins there. looks like £60 for that. brake and master cylinder kits come to about £100, pads will be another £50. so with the best will in the world there is at least £350 of bits needed for this straight away unless I can acquire some on the cheap. The battery is free since it can go on a work leaving present amazon voucher (they knew me *that* well after 3 years... (and yes it takes two, I know))...

 

£350 + £100 purchase price + £150 tyres + £50 MOT? hmmm. £650 best projection for back on the road? I can take my time with it since I have the extravagance of taking my working bike or the train to work so it can fester all the way into next year. 

[UltraWomble]

 

I have no idea what to do with that petrol. 

 

Later that day on Saddleworth Moor...

 

[Rave]

A bike MOT is a max of £29.65, not that it changes the maths a great deal.

[UltraWomble]

I did some ekynomiks on bits which was a bit sobering. 

£350 + £100 purchase price + £150 tyres + £50 MOT? hmmm. £650 best projection for back on the road? 

 

To be fair thats still pretty cheap for a running MOT'd bike. And once rebuilt you should at least have the satisfaction of knowing that its mechanically in good shape. Far better than paying £6 or 700 for an unknown quantity only for it to shit its gearbox within 100 miles. 

[DodgeRover]

Personally on a divvy I would be chucking some part worn tyres on assuming the ones on it are flat spotted/ cracked. Nothing wrong with a puncture repair either if it's been done correctly, I used to get a fair few tyres free like that.

It's only a work hack not a track bike...

£50 on pads seems dear, I seem to remember they used to be about £6 a pair trade and £8 or 9 for sintered.

[Dave_Q]

Yeah if you're not in a rush you should be able to make some savings, carb rebuild kits are about a tenner per carb for pattern ones on ebay, or with some patience you should be able to get a set of carbs off a runner for <£50.

[DodgeRover]

Personally I wouldnt worry about touching the mixture screws either, if you have a parts cleaner give them a really good soak or send them for ultra sonic cleaning.

 

Drilling anything to shift it in a carb is likely to end in tears.

[tobyd]

I think there are definitely bargains to be had on required bits - hadn't really considered part worns for tyres but that might bring the budget in a bit too. I'll keep a look out for carb kits, they seem the pricy bit here since all 4 are haggard. most of the other bits are fairly reasonable. Carb drilling is a bit eye watering. Had to drill out the two pilot jets on my Suzuki carb since one of its previous ratbag owners sheared the heads off. My Suzuki was exactly a £700 rip off that needed a shit ton of work to get it usable again. This one is in arguably worse state but starts with £600 up on the other one. I reckon i'll keep it and fix it up.

 

anyway,

 

Got cracking on the cylinder head investigation this evening. My photographic skills have gotten even shoddier.

 

Intake had to come off first. chain tensioner came with it.

 

 

few dubious oily marks but those are hard worked gaskets.

 

 

pop the chain off the cams

 

 

Pull the camshafts

 

 

and the head. I thought i'd struck diagnostic gold with these 3 head gaskets but they turned out to be all one.

 

 

bores and crowns are pretty manky

 

 

 

no obvious leakage on the gasket or mating faces.

 

 

cleaned up the surface of the barrel.

 

 

Bit of a blow, was expecting much greater distress than that. The bores are a little worn at the rim, not clear in the photos but there is maybe 10mm of carbon burnt on at the top. I'd really rather avoid pulling the barrel and replacing the piston rings (and circlips, urgh). A local engineering shop (Pat Seager, if your local to Ipswich) does pretty good rates on rehoning (And has a parts washer). I've always wanted to try doing it but maybe on something more scrappy than this. might get away with reusing the old rings on new bores but would be a ballache to have to strip it down again when it starts burning blue smoke...

 

Cams are a bit scruffy. i'll clean all that up one evening. I might buy a 5l pot of parts washer stuff and let a few things soak but i'll see.

 

Not sure how well aluminium alloy stuff does in the dishwasher?

 

Combustion chambers in the head are black but should clean up. valves look alright, no obvious signs of broken.

 

Sprayed the exposed faces down with chain lube and put a plastic bag over the engine and covered it with an ill fitting tarp. should keep the rust off for a day or two whilst I clean up a lightly lap the valves back in into the head.

 

Worst is that this probably was alright. Would have smoked like a bastard and been a total fire hazard to run it up without cleaning it first but it doesn't really seem so bad in there? Bottom end? Gearbox? The gears shift smoothly now at rest, and the engine turns over by hand fairly easily without clatter. might be a bit different at the other end of the tachometer granted. Even the suspension isn't too bad, the fork seals don't look so bad and the travel surfaces are clean.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Hooli]

 Even the suspension isn't too bad, the fork seals don't look so bad and the travel surfaces are clean.

 

Bet the forks are empty or just have a nice layer of sludge at the bottom though.

[tobyd]

They are up for review, I have the requistite 5/8ths rod with nuts on it from a different bike to undo the gubbins and it doesn't look like a horrible job so i'll save it for last.

 

where upon the springs will pop out and put my eyes out.

 

no doubt.

[DodgeRover]

I doubt the head gasket had gone, it looked more like accumulated oil from a slight weep to me, while it's apart you may as well strip the head, lap in the valves and fit new stem seals. Don't know how you set the clearances on these but while you are in there you may as well do them.

 

Rings and bores will be fine, save yourself some grief and leave them alone.

[tobyd]

I think thats a plan. At least I know the head is in ok shape. Oddly the valve cover gasket is in quite good shape so no idea where the oil mess is from?

 

Clearances are via shims tested at various crank positions. I don't think i have the right tool and they'll be out once i lap the valves but they are cheap to buy and easy to fit so can go on the list.

 

I also looked up brake pads and replacements can be had pretty cheap so can scale that estimate down. I'll try and get this back together in the next week or so then get the exhaust back on so its a bit more protected then carry attend to the other bits.

 

If I get a move on might be able to get it in for a test by the autumn!

[Guest Hooli]

Are you sure the valves need lapping? if the seats look ok I wouldn't bother & then you shouldn't need to reset the clearances. I'd try that way first as I believe the shims for some bike lumps can be silly money.

 

I think the 'special tool' for the clearances is just feeler gauges, it certainly is on my GSX that also uses a bucket & shim system.

[tobyd]

Valve lapping. hmmm. well i suppose they may not need it but a few spins on fine paste to bring up the seats and valves shiny again seems like a worthy cause now its exposed? As DodgeRover pointed out I may as well do the stem seals which means pulling the springs so would seem like a good idea since i'm there?

 

The 'special tool' is just the thing to push the lip of the bucket down against the cam once its back together so you fetch the shim out. I don't think my suzuki one fits (i'll check though). The shims, new, off Wemoto are a few quid a pop, the Suzuki ones were £9 each...

 

Any thoughts on the carbon at the top of the bores? or just leave well alone and get running again?

[Stanky]

I read ages ago than Sam Glover (occasionally of this forum) had moderate success lapping valves in by attaching a bit of small bore hose to the top of the valve stem and the other end of the hose into an electric drill and run the drill slowly/intermittently to polish the mating surfaces up with minimal fuss. Or at least more easily than with one of those lapping sticks

 

Worth a go?

[Guest Hooli]

Valve lapping. hmmm. well i suppose they may not need it but a few spins on fine paste to bring up the seats and valves shiny again seems like a worthy cause now its exposed? As DodgeRover pointed out I may as well do the stem seals which means pulling the springs so would seem like a good idea since i'm there?

 

The 'special tool' is just the thing to push the lip of the bucket down against the cam once its back together so you fetch the shim out. I don't think my suzuki one fits (i'll check though). The shims, new, off Wemoto are a few quid a pop, the Suzuki ones were £9 each...

 

Any thoughts on the carbon at the top of the bores? or just leave well alone and get running again?

 

I'd scrape the carbon off as you're doing everything else. It'll return soon enough though as it'll be in the area above the top ring.

 

I didn't know you could get shims that cheap, but then I've never needed to buy any.

[tobyd]

I've never been too sure about such witchcraft as that? even a slow drill is probably running a damn sight faster than the blisters forming on my hands from 'the stick'?

 

Hooli is very probably right in that they probably don't need doing at all but seems like opportunity crime to get in there and make more work.

 

As much work and expense as it'll be to put back together I'm fairly happy with the shape of it. For a £100 bike thats been neglected the lump seems in ok order?

[Guest Hooli]

I'd pop the valves out to look & decoke them, but decide on the grinding at the time. You'll see & feel easy enough if they need doing.

 

I've only ever lapped valves by hand, it's so easy that way why would you use loads of effort to try & save time? I do tend to put the top of a valve stem in a drill & spin it while holding scouring pads against them to decoke as it makes it easier.

[bezzabsa]

flap wheel the piston crowns...lap valves in...

ultrasonic the carbs..

deffo split the forks as they are wallowy at best...old trick was 4 or 5 pound coins dropped down the fork legs to help 'stiffen' the forks

 

 

rough looking runners can be had from £150, so keep an eye on eblag/local selling sites, as a spares bike is a wonderful thing!!

[DodgeRover]

I'm a bit of an animal with valves, once they've been recut I always use a drill on the stem to spin them and grind them in.

Lots of lube to save the guides.

Clean up well afterwards.

Bugger doing it with the proper suction stick.

[Faker]

Suction stick ends (pulled off) and slipped on a drill using socket attachment. 12mm from memory! Worked well for me

[tobyd]

Committed to fixing it up and ordered a bunch of stuff to get the engine back together.

 

De-valved the head, cleaned the worst of the mank off with brake cleaner. Valves barely need lapping, they'll get a few turns on fine by hand and that'll be that. One was a bit stuck and needing tapping out with a mallet, its an exhaust valve but hasn't the usual filth and skank on it. the other 3 have. not so sure what is going on there.

 

Cleaned up all the other greasy parts, there is some odd, ill fitting contraption that was attached to the intake manifold(s) which i'm confused by its function. Its takes some oil from a tapping on the head and then does something? I assume? the bike had a scott-oiler which I've removed on principal, but this wasn't attached to that. the contraption seems to be made of 'cheap ECP wheel cylinder grade aluminium' which makes me think its not original. that and it doesn't appear on the parts listings and I can't work out its function. The scott oiler ran off a vacuum tapping on a manifold and I don't think the two were linked.

 

 

ideas?

 

hosed it down in the shower with hot water. shower now needs hosing down. 

 

also didn't take anyones advice and tried to drill out the stuck carb mix screw and failed hard into fail city. I'm buoyed that I don't think the original carbs were ever going to go back on. I'm replacing them with a 2nd hand unit and i'll keep the best bits for spares. after inspecting it all a bit closer all the jets are clogged, all the o-rings are porked, all the float needles and seats are wrecked, beyond the diaphragms, bowls, floats and pipe unions its mostly had it. there are even some weird globs of something that appear half melted? I thought maybe it was the carb cleaner but I think its something else. its like someones melted some bakolite into all 4 bodies but in a place where nothing seems to go?

 

Rear brake caliper is short half bleed nipple too. took all that bit off, the master cylinder is within redemption but the caliper is pretty gummed up and then I snapped the bleed nipple so will likely replace the whole thing with another one. didn't have big hopes for salvation on the brakes really.

 

anyhow, progress for the day. should be able to get the cylinder head back on next weekend if the bits arrive and then get all the intake system back together, exhaust cleaned up and loosely back on then will set about the carbs.

 

any tips of cleaning up an exhaust? its stainless and not that bad but if a fiver and an hour will bring it back up then i'm all for it.

[DodgeRover]

Put that Scott oiler back and save a lot of money on replacement chains and sprockets if you are going to do some miles on it - nothing wrong with them at all.

 

Solution for snapped bleed nipples is using a banjo bolt with a bleed nipple built in.

[Eddie Honda]

Put that Scott oiler back...nothing wrong with them at all.

This. Had one on a new Suzuki SV650 and I reckon I would of had 50k out of the original chain judging by the lack of wear after 27k/9 months 30k/18 months when I sold it.

[Eddie Honda]

there is some odd, ill fitting contraption that was attached to the intake manifold(s) which i'm confused by its function. Its takes some oil from a tapping on the head and then does something? I assume? ... the contraption seems to be made of 'cheap ECP wheel cylinder grade aluminium' which makes me think its not original. that and it doesn't appear on the parts listings and I can't work out its function.

 

IMG_20180630_215549.jpg

 

ideas?

It's the factory fit carb fuel-heater/de-icer solenoid and pipework. Used up to MY1995. MY1996-on has something else http://www.xjrider.com/viewtopic.php?t=7932

 

It appears on parts listings if you look at the right one

[Guest Hooli]

Put that Scott oiler back and save a lot of money on replacement chains and sprockets if you are going to do some miles on it - nothing wrong with them at all.

 

 

That.

 

The only people I know who don't like scotoilers are the ones who adjust them every few mile & complain they never work right. The trick is to ignore them for at least 100miles & then only adjust it a little bit. Oh & turn it up again in winter.

[tobyd]

Cheers! Aha, yes i see it now. something else thats full of rusty fuel (oh wait no, just oil)... Looks like it circulates oil through the carbs whilst heating the fuel so not even something that might not be so easily left off. Apparently this feature didn't make it to US spec bikes in this form. I also noted the valve-cover bolt+oil is NLA from Yamaha. This heater thing looks like a real afterthought though, like a part they had laying around for something else that just got lashed on?

 

I'm content to lube the chain by hand every few weeks, then at least i'll be checking over the chain and things. My fear is that i'd let it run dry after I become complacent that it was on the case. It was empty when I got it which suggests its either leaky or too-easily forgotten.

[Eddie Honda]

It was empty when I got it which suggests its either leaky or too-easily forgotten.

Touring reservoir behind numberplate. Only have to look it/fill every service at c. 4k

[tobyd]

for a while i thought that carb warmer was some sort of vacuum operated engine oil dispensor for the chain... thats an idea, the reservoir on the one that came with the bike can only be half a litre at max. I might reinstate it, we'll see. long way off yet.

 

lapped the valves in to the head earlier. i forget how dismal it is. one side is almost diesel tight without the springs installed, the otherside is less so i'll hit those 4 again tomorrow. sort of stuck now until some bits start showing up anyway.

 

a lot of the hoses have perished or gone all gooey and rank, is there a reasonable source of cheapo replacements? I'd considered buying a decent spool of tygon tubing and replacing as needed with that. a lot of the duff hoses are slightly shaped and using floppity stuff makes me think things will kink and not work. The price of replacement hoses is very much the sadness.

 

going to send off a v62 form to assert my keepership tomorrow. see how that goes.