Saab 93 the second - Auspuff

[dozeydustman]

That's a useful read. I take it it's only this left hand rear wheel that needs the attention?

[SiC]

I believe either have failed. You really need to get a fault code scanner on it that is capable of reading ABS codes on the 9-3. An OP-COM should be able to do it.

[dozeydustman]

I'll have a poke around with the multimeter at the weekend. I'm not busy and the mrs is out helping her friend choose a rescue cat. As long as she doesn't come home with one as well I'll be happy.

I bought a code reader from eBay but it arrived DoA and won't charge up, so looking to get a refund there.

[dozeydustman]

I'm tempted by this. Anything I should look for if I go and take a look? Half the mileage of mine. Ideally I'd want to see it running in the car just to make sure no blue smoke or OMGHGF etc.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAAB-93-9-3-VECTOR-1-9-TID-2006-ENGINE/273361267586?hash=item3fa599eb82%3Ag%3A8a8AAOSw4GFbTiL-&_sacat=0&_nkw=saab+diesel+engine&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsaab+diesel+engine.TRS0

[Inspector Morose]

Apart from the broken timing case and cover, it does look as though it’s been standing outside for quite a while.

[SiC]

I'll have a poke around with the multimeter at the weekend. I'm not busy and the mrs is out helping her friend choose a rescue cat. As long as she doesn't come home with one as well I'll be happy.

 

I bought a code reader from eBay but it arrived DoA and won't charge up, so looking to get a refund there.

The cheap code readers are unlikely to be able to read the ABS codes.

[dozeydustman]

The cheap code readers are unlikely to be able to take a charge and actually work

 

 

FTFY

 

I've had 2 turn up that have crapped out on me. Hopefully Stanky is still coming to the mini meet on 25th with his magic box.

 

Got a few small jobs I can be getting on with tomorrow on this car, might just unplug the wheel sensors on both sides and follow your guide SiC - I've had naff all car tinkering time the last couple weeks due to weather, work and some issues with stepdaughter that have taken priority over everything else. Still not found the swirl flap actuating rod, hopefully I can either bodge the loose one back in or remove it completely with everything in situ as I have some quite long long nosed pliers.

 

Regarding that engine on the fleabay, had some more in depth looks at it and it looks like it's a dog. Didn't notice the smashed up timing cover, but there are other things like a bent dipstick tube and things that look a bit broken which to me would say it's been taken out of something that's had a front end smash or a bit of rough handling being extracted from the car. Another will turn up that isn't a stupid price, especially if I search for Vauxhall ones not Saab.

 

Would an XUD fit?

[dozeydustman]

As noted on the Grumpy thread Saab died on way home from work. Nursed it home with no power steering and unable to open windows to give a hand signal.

 

Something is eating all the electricity coming from the alternator. Spent a good hour since I got home checking connections within easy reach and earthing points, all are good.

 

14v direct from alternator, only 12.1 at the battery so charge light comes up. Done the usual switching things on and off to see if there is a difference in voltage. Nada.

 

Come to the conclusion that either the main ECU is up the shitter, or there is a short or broken wire in the loom somewhere. It has got to the point that I got to do some serious number crunching and see whether it's replace or repair time. I think this may be the cause of the EML coming on and off at random, and the ABS/ESP/TC randomly not working.

 

Good points:

Economical, comfy, goes like shit off a shovel

 

Bad points:

Mysterious electric gremlin, needs swirl flaps doing, tapping noise (intermittent) from top end.

 

not sure where the main ECU is; don't really want to spend too much as this might not be the problem.

[Talbot]

14v direct from alternator, only 12.1 at the battery

Unless electrickery on cars has changed massively in the couple of years between the newest car I've worked on and yours, there should be just a fat cable going between the B+ terminal on the alternator and the +ve post of the battery (although it may go via other places on the way), so to drop two whole volts between the Alt and Battery means there is something very wrong with that cable, or your battery has internally shorted and is dragging current like a bastard.

 

I've no idea of the layout in your car, but can you trace that cable, and where it goes and what it connects to on the way? I syspect you'll find something chafed almost completely through, or very badly corroded. Quite what, I'm not sure, but there's something quite wrong there, and it's fairly basic.

[dozeydustman]

I am going to whip the battery out, give it a charge, then get it tested. It's only a few months old and has guarantee, I'm really hoping it's not that, but in a way I also am hoping as it's an easy fix.

 

The big wire from the alternator goes via the starter according to the "typical wiring diagram" the HBOL has. If I can find a decent diagram instead of Haynes' old tripe then it gives me a better chance of finding a bad connector or fault. Could be the starter motor or solenoid if this diagram is correct.

 

The main part of this sub-loom appears to go round the back of the engine, then under it, then back across it, then over it, then disappears somewhere else before it gets to the battery.

 

Could just run a feed directly from the alternator to the battery.....

[dozeydustman]

Right, battery is on charge, though it's either i) not totally flat as the charge rate is extremely low or ii) knackered as the "charged" indicator on the (borrowed) charger has been flashing on and off after 10 minutes of being on. Must get it tested tomorrow just to rule this out.

 

Been probing with my ancient multimeter set to continuity. Trying to trace the wire from the alternator to see where it ends up before going to battery. I may have a short somewhere. Component, frayed wire - not sure yet as I need to poke around a bit more. One probe fixed into the +ve battery lead and poking around seems to reveal that anywhere EARTHED makes continuity. Jiggled some parts of the loom but made no difference. B+ terminal of alternator direct to battery +ve clamp shows NO continuity.

 

Think I'm going to need to spend a couple more hours looking for this one - I'm used to proper cars with mechanical engines and only 5 wires! A decent wiring diagram would help instead of the crap in the Haynes' manual with its 'typical' layouts.

[SiC]

[dozeydustman]

Thanks for that Sic, I'll print it out and do some more electrical poking around tomorrow. I did put a question in the Ask thread, as previous alternator was 2 terminal, this one is 3.

[SiC]

Check your grounds too. These cars especially don't like low battery voltage at the modules. This can easily be caused by dodgy grounds.

 

 

[SiC]

Thanks for that Sic, I'll print it out and do some more electrical poking around tomorrow. I did put a question in the Ask thread, as previous alternator was 2 terminal, this one is 3.

I replied to that too.

[dozeydustman]

I replied to that too.

 

 

And I've replied

 

The weird thing is the 2 volts dropped on route to the battery, which would suggest a part is draining somewhere, the battery is kaput, or there is a short. I'm thinking the last of those three as there shouldn't really be any connection to an earth from the battery positive!

[SiC]

I wouldn't be surprised if you get a continuity reading. Your multimeter would effectively be trying to power the car.

[dozeydustman]

Get similar things happen when I test components on my old consoles and build electronic things. I'll report back with the battery diagnosis tomorrow afternoon. Starting to have brainfarts now which means I should go to bed.

 

But I'll still be commenting on here at half 10 no doubt.

[Stanky]

DD, have you got a copy of WIS?

 

http://saabworld.net/showthread.php?t=33310

 

Workshop Information System and the Parts catalogue incl all part numbers in one program. Extracted its a good 3GB but a very welcome resource I've found.

[dozeydustman]

Sic has sent me a link for that in a PM, I hope it will run on my Vista laptop.

[dozeydustman]

Battery tested, it's still good, so that rules one item out.

 

Reconnected it to the car via an ammeter. 250mA initially when connected, soon dropped to below 50mA when electricity had weedled its way through the car (about 3 seconds).

 

Reconnected car properly, cranked over, initially again only 12.1v at the terminals, but after putting a good load on - full beam, heater, radio, anything else I know takes a lot of power, voltage shot up to 13.4v.

 

Turned all this off and then voltage stayed steady at 12.9v. Went for a 5 mile drive, got back, measured voltage at battery with engine running, still at 12.9v, going up to 13.1v after a minute or so.

 

I'm wondering if there's a bad or iffy connection somewhere that needs a bit of extra power to make it good, so this week is going to be spent looking (again) at all the earthing points around the car, possibly add a couple of earthing straps between engine and body if needed.

 

Had a theory though. A few months back all of a sudden the passenger side mirror just folded itself in on its own, and the button to fold/unfold no longer works. The driver's side mirror that hadn't adjusted or folded electrically also started working. Just wondering if this has something to do with it. There's no sound of an electric motor trying to move anything at any time.

[Stanky]

How easily can they be disabled? Since its the sort of thing that you set right once then leave forever is it worth just disconnecting the electrics to them both once set to the right position? Even just for good measure?

 

EDIT - if this gets bridged, can I put in a speculative request for the swan-neck bit of the washer bottle if its not totally broken like mine is? Sorry if its a bit too soon, but you know sometimes threats help with these sort of issues. go and mutter to it that it had better buck its ideas up because the vultures are already circling sort of thing...

[dozeydustman]

How easily can they be disabled? Since its the sort of thing that you set right once then leave forever is it worth just disconnecting the electrics to them both once set to the right position? Even just for good measure?

 

EDIT - if this gets bridged, can I put in a speculative request for the swan-neck bit of the washer bottle if its not totally broken like mine is? Sorry if its a bit too soon, but you know sometimes threats help with these sort of issues. go and mutter to it that it had better buck its ideas up because the vultures are already circling sort of thing...

 

 

I think it's just a case of pulling the fuse but I'll check later when I've had supper. Could always just pull the connections out the doors behind the trim.

 

Bridge is my last resort. Ideally I want to use the car until the MoT runs out in April then offer as spears and reapers it to another shiter for similar money than weigh it in. WBAC offered me £15 including the private plate (valued at £500), so they can FRO. If I can sort this issue out for pence then I'll spend a few quid sorting the emissions and EML fault(s)

[SiC]

Are you certain the alternator is putting out 14v at the terminals? As it's pretty much a direct feed, it should be going through. Double check that the cable from the alternator to starter is clean and fixed properly. Maybe even run a feed directly from the alternator to the battery terminal too.

[dozeydustman]

Are you certain the alternator is putting out 14v at the terminals? 

 

 

13.9 on my digital, 14 on my swing-needle meter.

 

 

Double check that the cable from the alternator to starter is clean and fixed properly. Maybe even run a feed directly from the alternator to the battery terminal too.

 

 

First thing I checked earlier - everything appears to be nice and secure. Latter is an idea I've been mulling through my head. The waggling of the negative lead tends to make the meters fluctuate as opposed to the positive, which is why I'm going to give the earthing points a going over. Again. And add extra earth straps if needed. Still not ruling out a failing component taking a higher than normal load.

[SiC]

Tried putting a jumper cable between the engine block and battery negative terminal? Makes a nice chunky ground path.

 

If the alternator terminal is putting out 14v, the battery should be at that level too! The alternator to battery link should be so low impedance that for something to be dragging it down that low, it'd be getting incredibly hot.

 

My suspicion is highly on the positive link from the alternator to starter to battery. Or a bad earth from alternator to battery.

[Guest Hooli]

I don't know if I said it earlier but check the alternator is earthing to the engine correctly too. I had that once years ago & took me ages to find.

[Asimo]

I have never had an alternator fail in 44 years (obviously I am a lucky sod) BUT I did once buy a car that wouldn't charge: 14volts at the alternator gave 12volts at the battery. This was because the alternator was mounted via rubber bushes and the earth strap between alternator and engine was U/S.

[Guest Hooli]

I have never had an alternator fail in 44 years (obviously I am a lucky sod) BUT I did once buy a car that wouldn't charge: 14volts at the alternator gave 12volts at the battery. This was because the alternator was mounted via rubber bushes and the earth strap between alternator and engine was U/S.

 

That was the issue I had on a Manta.

[dozeydustman]

Tried putting a jumper cable between the engine block and battery negative terminal? Makes a nice chunky ground path.

 

 

I don't know if I said it earlier but check the alternator is earthing to the engine correctly too. I had that once years ago & took me ages to find.

 

 

Did all this back in March when the problem first appeared, cleaning up and adding an extra earthing strap between body and engine block did fix the problem. My jump leads are on loan at the moment to my brother, who quite conveniently lives 80 miles away. I'm going to try adding another strap direct from alternator exterior to a nearby grounding point, along with a chunky cable between B+ and battery +ve.

 

Only things on that main positive feed line are alternator, starter, EMU and battery. Going to disconnect each one in turn and see if any resistance along the cable changes. If this makes sod all difference then it's pull out each of the many millions of fuses isolating a circuit at a time to see if there is a change in voltage.

 

Don't have any more car tinker time this evening as have guests for dinner who are due any minute and I'm still yet to get showered.