The Rover 400 WBOD Now with dent free doors and brakes

[HH-R]

They were NOT exactly the same IIRC.

I did some work at Lucas Car Braking at Pontypool (in 1993/94) when I worked for Lucas Industries, and we did a corporate project on managing variety at the design stage, and the Rover / Honda brakes were one example where the customer exerted great (perhaps too much) pressure to incorporate their preferred features. Things like a undercut vs a sharp edge at the bolt shank to head interface, instead of a larger machined chamfer on the casting, going into the threaded hole.  

Different hydraulic seal and dust seal designs (but the same diameter pistons)

Different sized bleed nipples (At the time lucas had 152 different OE bleed nipples across their worldwide plants - all demanded to be a particular size by different customer design teams)

And obviously loads of different pad materials for different models to give a different feel.

They should be interchangeable, but I'd make sure I had a matched pair. either both with a Honda casting or both with a rover casting.

No doubt it was Rover being the cheapskates

[twosmoke300]

It won't be the mc or abs pump . If you haven't bled it then it will be air I the system .

I do wonder on here sometimes . I realise not everyone is a mechanic but this is basics. Get a new caliper(s) as reqd and bleed it properly then drive it.

If all the brakes are binding now - have you adjusted the pedal at all ? If the pedal is over adjusted then it won't allow fluid back to the mc when the brakes warm so the brakes will all start to bind .

[sierraman]

I think you need to start from a clean slate here. Vacuum bleed it in the correct order on all corners, I’d also make sure none of the brake hoses are damaged as well if you haven’t clamped them properly and they are collapsing.

 

As above I’d get a new caliper, to be honest I’d have done that as soon as I was finding the piston seizing up, unless it’s something rare or expensive it’s rarely worth rebuilding calipers, get a service exchange one with some sort of guarantee.

[Vince70]

I really wish I was near two smoke or Sierra man as I’ve not seen my car and the garage are now saying that being Rover the parts are hard to get hold of.

I giving them till this evening then I think I will have to pick up the car if it’s still drivable.

It’s turning into a nightmare

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What parts are they struggling for, did they say?

[Vince70]

I really don’t know as I’ve used the garage for years so I did just let them get on with it.

But I did hear the words in the background that the word ABS pump was mentioned when I called today and the master cylinder has been renewed.

 

The thing is I never mind paying whatever is needed on my cars but I’m getting extremely worried that parts are just getting thrown at it now.

I know garages do have to use motor factors for parts but I’ve looked on eBay and apart from trim parts everything to me seems readily available new.

I understand what twosmoke and sierraman are saying and totally agree with them but I didn’t want to tell the garage what to do and wouldn’t want to be an ar<€>|€# customer as I imagine it must be a stressful business but it looks like I’m going to be bringing the car back home with no brakes and a big repair bill but will wait and see what the outcome is at the end of the day.

[sierraman]

You could probably tackle the bleeding at home, a vacuum bleeder is a piece of piss to use at home. Trick with anything like this is to be methodical.

 

It is a possibility that the master cylinder is at fault but if you haven’t bled the system the cause is more likely air in the system. What’s the actual symptoms as we stand at the moment?

[Vince70]

I’m not that sure at the moment but I’m presuming that the system has been bled and a new master cylinder has been bolted on as the first one that the garage ordered was the wrong part but I can’t really blame anyone for that.

 

When I took it down the garage I had to pump the brake pedal about 6 times each go to get it to stop but it wasn’t using any fluid sometimes the pedal would pump to the floor and other times it only needed pumping half way but the brakes were free and not binding.

I wouldn’t mind but I have three working cars I can lay my hands on but I can’t use a single one lol.

[sierraman]

Usually a failed master cylinder will just sink to the floor you’ll not get pressure in it. Bleeding the system throughout will indentify if there’s a leak of some description as it won’t bleed satisfactory.

 

My thoughts given what’s gone on so far (assuming it’s had a new caliper fitted) would be to attempt to bleed the entire system, following it round all the points on the car, then assuming that didn’t sort it, check for restriction on the brake hose that you clamped. I’d be fairly sure that bleeding it throughout will sort it out for you.

[Vince70]

I've not got any info from the garage yet but I was hoping for a phone call back at least.

I guess if the garage are unable to repair it I will have to pick it up tomorrow and pay the bill as I doubt it's a case of no news is good news.

I found a newish calliper on eBay for about 25 quid (apparently 3 weeks old) or I can get a pagid recon off ECP for about £45 with the discount code after surcharge.

I'm a bit out of my comfort zone though as im not a mechanic, I don't mind doing the basics such as servicing and changing brake pads etc

Shame of it is I also taxed and transferred the insurance over to the rover.

[sierraman]

The caliper is an easy enough job. If you haven’t replaced it already then I’d suggest this is the cause of your trouble. You’ll still need to bleed the system as air will have found its way all over.

 

Undo the flexi Union, don’t take it off but slacken it. Then there should be 2 bolts sat at the back of the caliper holding it to the carrier. These will be tight. Use a 6 sided socket on them with a 1/2 bar on it after cleaning up the head of the bolt so you can get enough purchase on it. Once you’ve got the caliper free then spin it off the flexi. You might find the flexi has chafed as well at the end, of it has swap it as well they are only a few quid. Then as I say bleed the system through. I’d probably use something like Eezibleed as I’d imagine you’ll be doing it yourself. HTH

[Vince70]

Hi all I’ve just spoken to the garage and it’s a strange one..

The car has already had a new caliper and master cylinder and the system is now air free and the pedal is now nice and firm but soon as you start the engine the pedal goes to the floor with no pressure.

 

The garage are scratching there heads as they said that they don’t want to throw parts at it on a £250 banger.

[sierraman]

Servo problem I’d say.

[twosmoke300]

Servo is doing its job - there is still air about - the added force from the servo is compressing it .

[Christine]

Servo is doing its job - there is still air about - the added force from the servo is compressing it .

W.H.S.  /\

[Vince70]

Thanks for all your help Twosmoke..

I’ve just phoned up and informed the garage about it being air in the system so hopefully it won’t be getting a servo or a new ABS pump now.

[Vince70]

The car is all done and now working fine after two new calipers and a master cylinder.

It looks like it’s going to have to be a keeper now as it ended up costing £383.64 which I didn’t need but that’s just the joys of motoring and the brakes should be fine at least.

 

But at the end off the day I guess if I had a nice new modern it would have cost me that for an oil change at a main dealer glass palace and I will say it does drive spot on.

 

So I now have my WBOD but I might have to sell my 318ti now

Any idea on what a mint 62000 1997 318ti is worth I know I’m going to regret selling it but needs must.

[sierraman]

I don’t know you have to lose the concern about cost of repair against the value of the car at this stage. If £400 gets you another year out of it and it’s otherwise a good car it’s probably worth spending as opposed to sinking it into an unknown quantity.

 

No idea about the BMW, Reverend Bluejeans is probavly you person to ask about that. If it’s still tidy, with only 60k on the clock it’s likely to find someone who’ll pay a bit more on novelty value alone.