Renault Clio 1.5 Dci Behaving Badly. (TADTS?)

[gtd2000]

A pal of mine has recently chopped in his stellar mileage L reg VW Passat estate for a 55 plate Clio Diesel.

 

It's a nice enough little car with failry low mileage for the year.

 

example photo but his is just a three door example:

 

 

Anyhoo, after about a week of ownership it failed to start in the morning and there was a weird whining/clicking sound coming from the engine bay.

 

Sounded like it was coming from the ECU and also somewhere behind the engine area.

 

I plugged in my ELM327 and the code for the glow plug relay was listed as the only stored fault.

 

Whatever is actually wrong, causes the battery to drain if left connected, if you disconnect the battery then reconnect in the morning, the car will start and drive perfectly.

 

He took it to his usual place for getting stuff done to his car (he's not mechanically inclined) and they said his ECU was knackered due to the fuse box having problems.

 

I see they have reasonably priced used ECU's on eBay etc and I'm quite happy to help him sort things out to save some cash as the garage he uses say it will be around £700 to fix! That's the same pirce he paid for the car coincidentally!

 

Any Renault 1.5Dci experts on here?

 

 

 

 

[3VOM]

I don't know the Mk3s but the Mk2s get water in the "comfort" ECU (under glove box area) which in turn causes numerous weird electric issues. On a Mk2 you also can't just replace one bit without getting Renault to reprogram things, you have to get ECU, "comfort" ECU and immobiliser all matching. (Which is why I'm likely to be breaking mine.)

[SiC]

  On 24/08/2017 at 09:38, 3VOM said:

I don't know the Mk3s but the Mk2s get water in the "comfort" ECU (under glove box area) which in turn causes numerous weird electric issues. On a Mk2 you also can't just replace one bit without getting Renault to reprogram things, you have to get ECU, "comfort" ECU and immobiliser all matching. (Which is why I'm likely to be breaking mine.)

You can get a second hand UCH (body computer) and have your existing one cloned onto the second hand one. Quite a few services around online that will do it - or can reasonably easily done with a EEPROM programmer and the right cables. Alternately get a second hand ECU+UCH+key set and swap them over.

[SiC]

  On 24/08/2017 at 08:51, gtd2000 said:

I plugged in my ELM327 and the code for the glow plug relay was listed as the only stored fault.

Is the glow plug relay stuck on? Try scanning for codes when the car is switched off too. It shouldn't be able to, but if the main power relay is getting stuck on, it will still be able to communicate with the engine ECU.

[spartacus]

Proper 'thinking outside the box' SiC!

[beko1987]

  On 24/08/2017 at 10:07, spartacus said:

Proper 'thinking outside the box' SiC!

They don't call him the renault whisperer for nothing!

[gtd2000]

  On 24/08/2017 at 09:49, SiC said:

Is the glow plug relay stuck on? Try scanning for codes when the car is switched off too. It shouldn't be able to, but if the main power relay is getting stuck on, it will still be able to communicate with the engine ECU.

 

The scan was done a couple of times, both with the engine off.

 

I didn't write the code down but recall it as being P0670?

 

I cleared the code, we took the car for a run and then re-scanned and it showed there was a "pending code" with the same number as above.

 

Appears to start easily enough, glow plug light comes on, goes off, car starts.

 

But if you turn the car off, you hear noise coming from the area where the ECU is - it actually sounds mechanical like it's some sort of old machine aligning cogs or suchlike - I'd assumed ECU's were solid state?

 

Then there's the separate noise coming from behind the engine, which may well be the location of the glow plug relay?

 

HIs car is still at the garage, as they sent off the ECU to be checked, he likely won't get access to the car until Friday but the company that checked the ECU says "it has a fault..."

[gtd2000]

  On 24/08/2017 at 09:38, 3VOM said:

I don't know the Mk3s but the Mk2s get water in the "comfort" ECU (under glove box area) which in turn causes numerous weird electric issues. On a Mk2 you also can't just replace one bit without getting Renault to reprogram things, you have to get ECU, "comfort" ECU and immobiliser all matching. (Which is why I'm likely to be breaking mine.)

 

He did mention something about water in the fuse box.

 

The garage that currently has the car thinks the water in the fusebox is what's caused the problem with the ECU..sounds like a great design where you can get water into the fusebox...

[gtd2000]

  On 24/08/2017 at 10:07, spartacus said:

Proper 'thinking outside the box' SiC!

 

Would the be the fuse box?

[SiC]

There's engine off and there is ignition off. Does it have a card or keys? Clio III could come with either.

 

Is the mechanical noise the throttle body? Usually when you turn an engine off on a modern, the power stays on for another 10 to 20 seconds to allow the ECU to finish doing it's stuff. I.e. they usually trigger the injectors in a special way to empty the fuel system back through the return, etc.

 

After that it should power everything off.

 

If the glow plug relay fault code is coming back up after clearing, I'd say that is suspicious that is causing trouble. Are the glow plugs still hot when the car has had the ignition on but engine off and cold, then off, left for 25-30mins? Don't burn yourself on them!

 

It's not unknown for glow plug relays to fail. They have to handle high current loads and this wears down the contacts, as well the possibility of them being welded stuck on.

[SiC]

Not got the wiring diagrams on me, but I'd be very surprised if the engine ECU is causing power drain when off. I'm pretty certain that the UCH* switches off power to the ECU when ignition is off on these.

 

* UCH is the name of Renault's body computer.

[SiC]

Just had a quick google and found this thread that looks quite useful: http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/17-electronics/481066-clio-mk3-1-5dci-battery-drain-ignition-wont-turn-off.html

 

...Then I realised I was the one that responded to the thread starter.

[gtd2000]

  On 24/08/2017 at 11:33, SiC said:

There's engine off and there is ignition off. Does it have a card or keys? Clio III could come with either.

 

Is the mechanical noise the throttle body? Usually when you turn an engine off on a modern, the power stays on for another 10 to 20 seconds to allow the ECU to finish doing it's stuff. I.e. they usually trigger the injectors in a special way to empty the fuel system back through the return, etc.

 

After that it should power everything off.

 

If the glow plug relay fault code is coming back up after clearing, I'd say that is suspicious that is causing trouble. Are the glow plugs still hot when the car has had the ignition on but engine off and cold, then off, left for 25-30mins? Don't burn yourself on them!

 

It's not unknown for glow plug relays to fail. They have to handle high current loads and this wears down the contacts, as well the possibility of them being welded stuck on.

 

It's the regular key with the cental locking buttons.

 

There's no CEL on the dash when the car is running to suggest any faults in the system.

 

Are the glow plugs easily accessible?

 

I've only looked at the car on a couple of occasions so far, first time when it wouldn't start, then after he charged up the battery overnight.

 

The workaround that I found, was that you only needed to disconnect one of the negative leads from the battery (the one closest to the windscreen) and the car will keep the charge and not be making any strange sounds, as well as start up easily.

[SiC]

IIRC, they should be on the near the injectors. Almost always under plastic engine covers.

 

I assume they've checked the basics, like that the alternator isn't causing the drain?

 

They need to crack out a ammeter and start finding where the current drain is. I'd possibly recommend that they are a proper auto-electrician. A lot of garages don't/can't diagnose electrical faults properly on modern cars.

[Ghosty]

The 1.5 DCI isn't exactly known for being reliable so I think the TADTS is justified.

There are going to be a lot of cheap A-Classes around in a few years...

[SiC]

They got better and stronger as time went on. The early ones - mostly pre-2004 were the weakest. Its basic design has been around for a pretty long time now and still in use. Apart from the crappy early injector pump that took out the injectors, they don't seem to really suffer from too many catastrophic faults on the block itself if serviced properly and often.

[gtd2000]

I'll pass on all of this information and get an update (probably on Friday) when he finds out what the score is with the car.

[Lacquer Peel]

  On 24/08/2017 at 13:41, Ghosty said:

The 1.5 DCI isn't exactly known for being reliable so I think the TADTS is justified.

There are going to be a lot of cheap A-Classes around in a few years...

 

It's a good engine but this one is surrounded with crappy electronics, I've driven Kangoo DCis with over 300k on the clock, the engines still went well. My girlfriend's Clio DCi possibly hadn't had an oil change in 6 years before I intervened, so it seems to cope with abuse as well.

[lexi]

The Clio would have done better without the Delco stuff I think.  It never seems to be as good as Bosch injectors, pumps and ECU'S.

[twosmoke300]

You say that but bosch stuff seems to give me grief than Delphi does