Hdi injector seal replacement

[stripped fred]

Apologies in advance as I did post this in the stupid question thread but I think it may need it's own post.

 

I'm going to attempt to change the seals on at least 2 injectors at the weekend as I'm slowly poisoning myself and the family. I now have to drive with the windows open. I suspected the exhaust initially but when i actually bothered to have a look under the bonnet it was obvious that the injectors were at fault as there's black gunge around the two left ones, they are hissing and I can smell the fumes. Even I worked that one out!

 

I've bought the washers for less than a fiver and also ordered a special 27mm socket with a recess in it which I think I'll need. I'm a bit worried though as there are a lot of tales of them being a right bitch to get out and also the washers being seized in. Also diesel spraying everywhere afterwards. Am I right to attempt this or should I just get my local garage to do them? I was budgeting for a new exhaust so I've already saved on that. Out of 5 spanners I would say I'm a 2 and a half spanner mechanic. What's the worst that could happen? Any tips? PS. I will need it working Monday morning for work...

[tommotech]

Which engine size, 1.6?

[stripped fred]

2.0 hdi 90hp

[cort16]

They'll either pop right out or you'll end up in a war with them. You can get tools to extract them, which is basically a giant slide hammer.

 

When I changed the ones on my smart I fed them with wd40 for about a week before and they popped right out. 

Good luck!

[stripped fred]

They'll either pop right out or you'll end up in a war with them. You can get tools to extract them, which is basically a giant slide hammer.

 

When I changed the ones on my smart I fed them with wd40 for about a week before and they popped right out.

Good luck!

Quick google for what a slide hammer is.... bloody hell, they're not cheap are they!

[Bren]

Sometimes they are stuck so fast hydraulic equipment is needed to get them out.

[cort16]

I bought one and didn't need it so I resisted it on eBay. It cost me a tenner in the end.

[cort16]

[cort16]

If you're getting blow by from the injector they may have loosened themselves off.

[tommotech]

If I remember correctly there is a plastic liner that the injector sits in, the heat from combustion melts it as you can see at the top of the hole. If you get the engine hot and strip it quickly afterwards the plastic will be pliable enough to release the injector, with some leverage. You don't need the 27mm socket by-the-way.

The attached may help;

[Station]

Did this on a BMW and Mercedes, and both came out easily. Merc was solid with hardened diesel and needed digging out, I should've used a shovel, and BMW injector just came out by hand. Incidentally, BMW have double ended bolt that you tighten the injector to so you can't strip the thread in the head if you over-tighten it.

They say you have to cut the sealing surface on the bottom. Don't be tempted to overtorque the bolts though, you might strip the thread.

If you see it leaking (ie blowing diesel bubbles from around the injector), and everything's tightened let the engine warm up to properly soften the copper washer and check after a couple of days.

[alf892]

From the look of that the injectors are held by the clamp so socket not required.

 

Be very careful undoing the electrical connection as they get a bit fragile. Other than that more straightforward than the Internet will predict. Usually.

 

Get an injector bar to hook them out......aka heel bar. You can then lever them up under the main fuel pipe area.

 

Ones that are not leak are sometimes worse to get out.........get some good penetrating oil around all of them.

 

If you are lucky the old washer might come out with the injector......if not hook them out with a bit of bent coat hanger.

[stripped fred]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwZOTf8vYhE

I think I'd probably give up before it got to that!

[stripped fred]

If you're getting blow by from the injector they may have loosened themselves off.

I hope so. If they're properly seized in then I'll hand it over to the garage to do.

[stripped fred]

If I remember correctly there is a plastic liner that the injector sits in, the heat from combustion melts it as you can see at the top of the hole. If you get the engine hot and strip it quickly afterwards the plastic will be pliable enough to release the injector, with some leverage. You don't need the 27mm socket by-the-way.

The attached may help;

1Capture.JPG

Thanks for that. I'll try warming it up first.

[stripped fred]

Did this on a BMW and Mercedes, and both came out easily. Merc was solid with hardened diesel and needed digging out, I should've used a shovel, and BMW injector just came out by hand. Incidentally, BMW have double ended bolt that you tighten the injector to so you can't strip the thread in the head if you over-tighten it.

They say you have to cut the sealing surface on the bottom. Don't be tempted to overtorque the bolts though, you might strip the thread.

If you see it leaking (ie blowing diesel bubbles from around the injector), and everything's tightened let the engine warm up to properly soften the copper washer and check after a couple of days.

I've read a bit about recutting the sealing surface on the bottom which is a but beyond my skill set tbh. I was just going to try and remove the washers and clean up as best I can and hope that works. If it's still leaking after I've done it I'll take to the garage for them to sort.

[stripped fred]

From the look of that the injectors are held by the clamp so socket not required.

 

Be very careful undoing the electrical connection as they get a bit fragile. Other than that more straightforward than the Internet will predict. Usually.

 

Get an injector bar to hook them out......aka heel bar. You can then lever them up under the main fuel pipe area.

 

Ones that are not leak are sometimes worse to get out.........get some good penetrating oil around all of them.

 

If you are lucky the old washer might come out with the injector......if not hook them out with a bit of bent coat hanger.

Thanks. I'll have to add one of those injector bar things to my toolkit, if I can find one!

[stripped fred]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191722047712 This looks quite a useful kit.

[garbaldy]

I had a right faff with the space ship which is documented on here,

Start car and get it nice and hot then try to remove it, if it hasn't moved by the time it's cooled again put it back together and start it up again and get it hot then repeat, once I got very slight movement it still took ages to work the injector out,patience is definately key with some of these,

I know of people who have snapped injectors in the head trying to do the seals so be cautious and set aside the whole day, with luck they may pop out easily.

 

Oh and only do one at a time as some are supposedly coded to cylinder.

[Station]

You should be able to get away without cutting, which involves capping the injector hole, and reeming the bottom of the bore very slightly with a gnurled tool, a bit like grinding cylinder head valves. Make sure it's clean though. The pressure in the cylinder is very hefty (2000+ psi - it injects diesel into the cylinder around TDC which is at maximum compression) so any microscopic gap, diesel will escape.

 

I'm sure you're safe without coding, unless I'm mistaken the injectors are only coded to their flow rates (stamped on the top of the injector) and adjusts fuelling on the ECU accordingly.

[Lacquer Peel]

The 27mm socket is for older screw-in IDI injectors.

[twosmoke300]

2.0 hdi Aren't usually too bad . Plenty of lube , take your 27mm socket back while it soaks in . Undo the clamp bolts - blast shit n dirt away with an airline . More lube and try and pull them out . What I've done in the past is screw the pipe back on the injector and use it as a handle to turn the injector .

As mentioned above there is a plastic sleeve which may stick to either the head or the injector .

If the copper washer is stuck I found a long bolt (m8 iirc) is best - screwcit down into the washer by a couple of threads and pull it out .

[sierraman]

Top tip! If it won't come out, cake fire cement round it. 😀

[alf892]

heel/injector bar......Britool are good because slim but very strong.

 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/pry-bars/2222218/

[dieselnutjob]

Give the bottom of the hole where the copper washer goes a good scrape out and clean or the washer won't seal.

 

Also the torque for the injector nut quoted in Haynes is insane and I pulled a stud out of the head by following it.

[stripped fred]

I had a go at this today. Managed to get the 2 left side injectors out which were the ones leaking. They came out relatively easily. The washers weren't too difficult either. The second injector was really gummed up. I cleaned out the bores too and scraped away as much gunk as I could. Had a few highs and lows. One low was when I started the engine after changing the first injector only to see clouds of smoke. I tightened the nut a bit more and then it rounded. Bugger. I took the bolt out and it was covered in swarf. After panicking for a bit I tried another bolt which worked. You can see it at the bottom of my photo. I tightened it up as much as I dared and that injector now has a very slight blow, about 10% what it was. Hoping it might seal itself after I've driven it a bit more. No obvious fumes in the cabin now though.

 

I also changed the gearbox oil. Spent a couple of hours trying to get the new oil in the hole where the small breather cap was until I realised that the whole breather plug unscrewed which made it easier. The old oil was quite manky and it does feel nicer to change gear now so all in all a good days mechanicing. Main bonus being the car still works!

[tommotech]

Torque the injector bolts with the engine hot, seal is a little more pliable.

[Lankytim]

In my experience they deffo won't seal themselves. On my Chrysler PT cruiser I used a Honda Accord copper washer as it was twice as thick as the Mercedes items I was meant to use and the extra "squash" really helped to seal things. I also cleaned the carbon from the sealing faces with emery paper sellotaped to a wooden dowell.

[stripped fred]

It might be my imagination but I was sure my car was driving much better this morning and no nasty fumes through the dash vents. I was able to accelerate up the long drag on the motorway in 5th more easily than before. (This could all be in my head though). After an hour driving I pulled over to nip the injector up which has the minor leak, when the engine was warm. I turned it about 1/6 of a turn and then it did that thing where you suddenly feel it's started to round. I stopped straight away and it's not popped out or anything. I poured a bit of water round it and there is still a leak but not sure if worse than before.

 

I'm a bit stuck now as I don't want to disturb it anymore as worried about completely stripping the thread. I'm trying not to have it helicoiled or replacement head fitted. In hindsight it had a different bolt in there so someone may have stripped it before.

 

The car's done 201k but is good in all other respects and still drives well with no noticeable fumes in the car. Am i naive to think it will stay the same or will it get worse? Or maybe better as the exhaust gases help to seal it? Should i just ignore it as it's a cheap car towards the end of its life? Any opinions welcome...

[SiC]

Sometimes I find that you get to the point where if you fiddle with something, if you fiddle with it anymore to put it right, things get a whole lot worse. This sounds like one of those times.

 

Be ever so careful when putting body parts around and near the fuel lines and injectors when running. They operate at such a high pressure that any leaks or even the fuel vapour can enter your bloodstream causing serious damage to you - including requiring amputations.