Modern Super(charged) Shite

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Good evening all, hope everyone had a nice Christmas.

 

Earlier on I helped rescue my friends mothers Bini Cooper S from a car park due to a flat battery. Got it going with a jump which was enough to get it home but the battery had discharged again 30 mins later back on their drive.

Can anyone tell me if it would be a straight old fashioned swap? I believe the later models with start stop require the battery to be coded to the car. Now THAT is shite in my opinion! It's a 2005 model with the battery in the boot. Something about the vent too?

I know its not a normal question to be asking on this fine forum but I'm trying to save her some money as I've priced a replacement Bosch up from ECP for about 60 quid- God only knows what BMW would want.

 

Cheers 

[nacho man]

Bmw batterys are not that bad at all, probably about the same. Got one for a new shape 6 series earlier on this year and was and it was some mahoosive thing, the fella on the counter told me they come with a gel battery as standard, but this had already been changed to a normal type, and the car needs to be told what battery its running, we banged a new one in sure it was only 70 odd quid.

 

Anyhow long story short. I swapped it, and nothing went wrong. 

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Thanks Danterzza,

 

I think the BMW batteries are AGM with glass matting inside and are sealed, as well as being quite a bit more expensive for the Bini. Would hate to spike the ECU or set off a chain reaction of electrical chaos/cause more problems by trying to do someone a favour as Is usually the case when I try and help someone out!

 

Thanks again

[Alfamale]

Trick to swapping a BMW battery is to put another battery on whilst you swap over, i.e. Never removing the power source. However don't think it's a DIY job but a local batter specialist, like SYBS in Sheffield, can do it no bother. I think even Halfrauds can do it these days now as well.

[nacho man]

Probably best to ask twosmoke/ barrycade/ panhard etc etc who are proper mechanics. 

 

Would be a nightmare if you offer some help, and it knackers it up. I have heard about having to code them gel batterys to the car though.

[overrun]

What has the (automotive)world come to FFS!

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Thanks both and yes Danterzza that is my fear!

 

Edit: Yes overrun- My thoughts exactly!

[sierraman]

What do Halfords charge to fit a battery? £15? I'd just pay them the money and if it fucks up its their look out.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Good suggestion! Will have a look on their website

[wuvvum]

If I'm changing the battery on a "modern" I normally use a moped battery and a couple of 2' lengths of wire with crocodile clips on either end which I clip onto the terminals to keep a 12v supply to the car.  As long as you don't let the live terminal touch the bodywork it works fine.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

That's a good suggestion too- I did think about using the current battery as a slave using jump leads but was thinking I wouldn't have much room to maneuver around the terminals. Your idea is much better.  I'm beginning to think that if I can't just swap the battery I might just leave it for the local garage to sort out for them. Definitely worth bearing in mind for future shite shenanigans though considering the car is 11 years old now.

[surprisingskoda]

Does it have stop start? That should be an r53 model and although earlier, never had any problem swapping batteries over (constantly) on my 02 s.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

I don't think it does but not 100% sure. It's the r53 model 

[srad34]

I spoke to a specialist before swapping my battery on my 56 plate 320. He said its fine to just disconnect and reconnect, no coding, no witchcraft. It was all fine.

 

Despite folk convincing me on Bimmerforums that it would need coding or taking to a specialist - what a load of shite.....

 

There is value is cnnecting to a secondary power supply whilst swapping if only to retain your window drop settings and radio stations

 

AGM is only required if it has stop start btw and the R53 is only the vert version of the R52, all the same cept the rag tp innit

[tommotech]

BMW and Bini batteries are OEM branded Banner batteries. Not all Stop/Start use AGM, many use the cheaper EFB (extra flooded battery). I replaced the battery on my 1series of similar vintage and the system didn't need to be told that the new battery had been fitted.

 

Disconnecting the battery is good for CAN reset, wait five minutes for the light to go out on the start button first though (CAN Bus off) before removing leads.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Thanks again. To be honest the running costs of a reliable* modern car made my toes curl. Think it's had a steering rack, alternator and the boot filled up with water due to the back light clusters leaking in the last 18 months. Total repairs @ over £1500. Its low mileage too. 

My K11 has done 20k in the last 2 years with a drop link,headlight connector and a recon caliper. Total repairs @ £60

I think I'll stick with unreliable* old cars 

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Cheers Tommotech. It didn't have a start button, just an old fashioned key start

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Battery went in the old fashioned way with no issues. Many thanks for all the suggestions

[gordonbennet]

My lads neighbour changed the battery on his E46 BMW when it was still the current model, it put some sort of TC or ASR type light on, appears the steering needed to go from lock to lock to learn its straight ahead position for Yaw or whatever else shit they stuff on the bloody things these days, no i'd never head of it either.

But even on the humble W124 Mercs, E320 (dunno about other specs), when you change a battery, first thing is to do is to put ignition on then press the throttle slowly all the way to the floor before starting.

 

As above, i try to safely jerry wire a constant power feed to the terminals during battery swap, soon as i get the terminals off the old one i still gloves onto them in case of accidental contant, hopefully i'll never own a car with canbus or other rubbish nor one that needs to be told its got a new battery or it throws a hissy fit.

[Guest Hooli]

I've heard of the yaw thing before, it's quite common with stability controlled cars.

[SiC]

My lads neighbour changed the battery on his E46 BMW when it was still the current model, it put some sort of TC or ASR type light on, appears the steering needed to go from lock to lock to learn its straight ahead position for Yaw or whatever else shit they stuff on the bloody things these days, no i'd never head of it either.

Same thing on the Golf mk5.

 

On the Saab 9-3, the steering lock disengages until you've driven it again, which then it'll reset itself.

 

Wiring on a constant power feed for me feels a very uncomfortable thing to do. Unless the cable is beefy, if something in a car demands power when changing battery, it will cause a voltage drop and make things go bezerk - even more than just removing a battery. A lot of systems in cars can also do with having a full reboot done on them occasionally too. Also if the car is especially sensitive to battery changes, then not removing the power feed will make it think the battery hasn't been changed. Thus mucking up any current battery life calculations it may be doing.

[gordonbennet]

Not sure i've ever owned a car that could calculate the charging requirements of its battery, and to be honest i don't want one.

Isn't that what a normal alternator does, when the battery is charged the charge rate lowers to just keep things tickety boo.

 

Not being funny or sarky here in any way shape or form, i've heard of cars like Focus's, for crying out loud why, having smart alternators or summat, well what the fuck is all that about i'd genuinely like to know whats so much better about shit like this than a simple alternator man enough charging a battery specced big enough for the vehicle its supposed to be starting and powering...and if there are improvements to all this clever bollocks are they proving worth it once the heap is out of makers warranty?

 

Those of us who were a bit mechanically minded, when our car's batteries died we'd hunt round the factors for the biggest Diesel spec bastard we could hammer into the battery holder, from that moment we never had another FTP due to lack of power, why they didn't put the 80ah motherfucker on instead of that 45ah equivalent of two U2's when the thing was made has always been a mystery.

[Tamworthbay]

The new systems are like having a ctek charger and conditioner on board that maximises the life and potential of the battery. It's a great idea, until of course you come to swap the battery over! But it's not rocket science to do even if it does need 'coding' as that is usually really simple.

[sierraman]

I'd be wary of rigging up a series of batteries in parallel to keep the codes etc, could spike the voltage easily enough.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

That was my worry with using the old battery as a slave. I had visions of me slipping with a spanner and frying/spiking the ECU or other electrikery. It comes to something when such a supposedly simple task can throw up so many questions.

[SiC]

Not sure i've ever owned a car that could calculate the charging requirements of its battery, and to be honest i don't want one.

Isn't that what a normal alternator does, when the battery is charged the charge rate lowers to just keep things tickety boo.

 

Not being funny or sarky here in any way shape or form, i've heard of cars like Focus's, for crying out loud why, having smart alternators or summat, well what the fuck is all that about i'd genuinely like to know whats so much better about shit like this than a simple alternator man enough charging a battery specced big enough for the vehicle its supposed to be starting and powering...and if there are improvements to all this clever bollocks are they proving worth it once the heap is out of makers warranty?

 

Those of us who were a bit mechanically minded, when our car's batteries died we'd hunt round the factors for the biggest Diesel spec bastard we could hammer into the battery holder, from that moment we never had another FTP due to lack of power, why they didn't put the 80ah motherfucker on instead of that 45ah equivalent of two U2's when the thing was made has always been a mystery.

A couple of reason that they go to the trouble of monitoring the charging and discharging of the battery.

 

Firstly, for stop/start systems, they need to know the current SoC (State of Charge) of the battery as if it gets too low then stop/start needs to be disabled. Otherwise without it, you'd come to the traffic lights, engine stops and wouldn't be able to restart if there isn't enough juice.

 

Secondly, the car is aware that there is a drain fault if the battery is draining too quickly when off. The diagnostic machine can alert of this problem and possibly even roughly where.

 

Thirdly, if the battery gets too discharged (say left in an airport car park), the car knows this and turns off all non-essential systems to allow enough capacity to restart once more again. Also when in this state, everything non-essential is shut off (i.e. radio, heated/electric seats, etc) until the battery has got enough charge in it.

 

Finally, to provide another idiot warning light every modern car does (along with brake pad sensors, low oil/coolant/washer fluid/etc) to tell you that the battery knackard.

 

On most modern cars, this is implemented as a computer on the battery terminal itself. On a lot of the modern German stuff, they also have an explosive disconnect fuse. So in the event of a serious accident, it can blow this fuse to completely kill the entire electrical system to help prevent fires and making it safer for the fire+recovery crews.

[gordonbennet]

Thanks for that very full explanation.

I'm more convinced than ever now that, for me, a modern should be avoided at all costs unless A some bugger else is paying for it, or B its on glorified rent and chuck it back when the warranty runs out.

[Pillock]

Then again, the original question was about a 11 year old car.

Moderns will be fine in respect of batteries, since they just rarely go wrong. 

Old cars, we know they're OK for batteries since you can just swap them with any old £10 scrapyard jobbie

 

It's this middle ground, as what used to be a modern becomes cheap but there's not yet a wealth of experience outside of the dealer network.

[Psycho Charlie Knobcheese]

Thanks SiC for the explanation above. It's good to know the tech and reasons why.

 

Pillock, I'm with you on that- Mingebag motoring might get a bit more difficult over the next 10 years. Then again, I'm hoping the Chinese will stay ahead of the curve with their knock-off diagnostic gear so hopefully all is not lost.

[sierraman]

I don't know, changing the rear brakes on a B6 Passat would have been a garage job a few years ago, you can buy the hand held thing that puts it into service mode for £80 now. When the Mondeo replaced the Sierra everybody was frightened to death of the cat going. Time went on, they could've manufactured cheaper it became less an issue.

 

Eventually the aftermarket catches up and produces the tools/parts for an affordable price. It's moreover the way you'll repair them that's changing.

 

There's more 'old bangers' on the road than ever in real terms as despite what you think they last a lot better than cars did 30 years ago.