Unwanted Stepchild

[r.welfare]

If we're having the New Beetle I seem to recall the Golf Plus being similar, the chassis having been superceded by two successive generations of Golf while it was on sale.

[Richard]

If we're having specific body styles I'm nominating the HA van, which outlived the HB and HC Vivas. It nearly outlived the Chevette too, it would have if the Chevette hadn't also massively outstayed its welcome.

[Guest Lord Sward]

Disco 1 - terminal body rot

Disco 2 - bad chassis rot and more complicated

 

Choose your poison ( or a defender)

 

 

I've got to step in a defend the Disco 2.  Mine's only cost £5k to maintain this year.

[Zantimisfit]

Peugeot 206, as the 206+, carried on in Europe alongside the 207 until the 208 replaced both.

 

Does that count?

 

 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I thought the 1990 Escort was actually a nice looking thing, a far better upgrade than Mk3 to Mk4 which was just roundy lights, a few smoothings, and a new dashboard. All the updates from there on to the Focus were just botox and fishlips and made it look daft.

 

 

True. The Mark 5 Escort as it first appeared was a pretty car to my eyes, very neat looking and well finished. It wasn't the best thing to drive but it was better than the Mark 3 Golf and an all round improvement over the Mark 4 Escort. I worked at a Ford dealer at the time and drove a few - they were alright really. The hundreds of thousands of buyers thought so as well.

[Bianconeri]

Thing is, if you'd asked someone from a previous generation, they'd have mentioned Citroën's Light Fifteen/Traction Avant and DS - as in the DS was a joke, compared with what went before. The outcry was so loud the company made a special autoshite edition DS (the ID), without the hydraulic/auto clutch, powered brakes or steering in an attempt to keep the traditionalists in the fold. 

 

Progress is progress, truly good cars aren't the preserve of any one nation, even less a single manufacturer. We have the benefit of hindsight on our side, something the man with a big bank balance/trusted occupation doesn't know about, when having his earnings taken away by the salesman.

You make some interesting points there about the TA / DS relationship. The TA lasted a whole four years after the DS was launched so Citroen showrooms must have been interesting places with the wierd and wonderful DS and the equally wonderful TA ( whose design was 20+ years old). I don't know about the outcry against the DS, but I do know that is was a very expensive car to build and so Citroen needed the simpler ID on those grounds alone.

 

I do know that the CX was initially not well recieved as it was seen as 'too wierd' to replace the DS. As you say, that's progress for you.

 

I'd have a TA in a heartbeat. I'd probably have a CX too.

[quicksilver]

What about the Proton MPI or Saga Iswara? Discontinued here in 1995 to make way for the Persona/Wira but stayed in production until 2008 while the Wira was dropped in 2006.

[egg]

Ford Fusion as unwanted 'ugly sister' of Mk6 Fiesta.

 

[forddeliveryboy]

You make some interesting points there about the TA / DS relationship. The TA lasted a whole four years after the DS was launched so Citroen showrooms must have been interesting places with the wierd and wonderful DS and the equally wonderful TA ( whose design was 20+ years old). I don't know about the outcry against the DS, but I do know that is was a very expensive car to build and so Citroen needed the simpler ID on those grounds alone.

 

I do know that the CX was initially not well recieved as it was seen as 'too wierd' to replace the DS. As you say, that's progress for you.

 

I'd have a TA in a heartbeat. I'd probably have a CX too.

 

From what I'm told, there were sufficient dependable longstanding customers horrified by the DS and its complexity (even though Citroën decided not to tell them about plenty of the advanced tech) for the company to take note. Suspension with liquid pushrods bearing on bubbles of Nitrogen, disc brakes, a shocking appearance and the ride of a magic carpet was more than enough for some the conservative French public.

 

It probably didn't help that the car had been forced into production before everything was fully sorted - plenty of early ones left their owners stranded as the factories tried to get to grips with tolerances one tenth of those in the aircraft industry.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

From what I'm told, there were sufficient dependable longstanding customers horrified by the DS and its complexity (even though Citroën decided not to tell them about plenty of the advanced tech) for the company to take note. Suspension with liquid pushrods bearing on bubbles of Nitrogen, disc brakes, a shocking appearance and the ride of a magic carpet was more than enough for some the conservative French public.

 

It probably didn't help that the car had been forced into production before everything was fully sorted - plenty of early ones left their owners stranded as the factories tried to get to grips with tolerances one tenth of those in the aircraft industry.

 

 

But thank God Citroen had the balls to do it. I mean, compare a DS19 with an E Series Wyvern or an Austin A50.

 

Exactly.

 

 

I favour a stainless bumper CX myself. Travelling from Lester station to Richard K's massive in a CX to collect an E34 reminded me what an incredible thing they must have been. Nearly dozed off on the 10 mile journey. SRS KOMFERT

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I like the chrome bumper CX too - I'd choose a 2400 Pallas automatic with those lovely chrome wheel trims.

[Bianconeri]

But thank God Citroen had the balls to do it. I mean, compare a DS19 with an E Series Wyvern or an Austin A50.

 

Exactly.

 

 

I favour a stainless bumper CX myself. Travelling from Lester station to Richard K's massive in a CX to collect an E34 reminded me what an incredible thing they must have been. Nearly dozed off on the 10 mile journey. SRS KOMFERT

Citroen certainly had cojones when it came to design. Of course it bust the company a few times! I think the point about the underdeveloped early DS19 is probably true.

 

The thing is, they still look good! One thing that has got infinitely worse over the years is packaging. The DS is enormous inside but park one next to a Focus and they look really small. In my opinion you'll never better the suspension, it floats over the bad roads of today with aplomb. Just wish I'd kept my GS, another brilliant piece of design.

[Arragonis]

VW's 'new' Beetle?

Largely based on the Mk4 Golf and sold up till 2011, when the Golf was on it's 6th gen.

It's as if nobody told the part of the factory to stop making them, forgot then remembered after a few years but never had the heart to stop and it wasa't untill a new guy came they actually did something. 

 

I'd still own one though...

 

VW have form on this though. The Golf 1 Cabrio lasted well into the Mk2 era only to be replaced by the Golf 3 Convertible, which in turn got new front and rear lights from the Golf IV to make it live on for a few years too.

 

Slightly like the 1 New Beetle too, cheap now.

[mercrocker]

Ford guilty, too.   Mk1 Escort Estate and van into Mk2 with same rear panel pressings, likewise Mk1 Granada wagon into Mk2 and the Mk4 Cortina estate didn't alter much from the Mk3 - not that I have checked....Mk2 Granny estates had the A post from the new saloon, though.     

 

Another thing Ford did for quite a while was hang to a cut-price version of an old boner even if they had a new one to sell - 103E Popular was the old upright Anglia until 1959 (hence the higher number than the 100E which should have displaced it.   See also 107E Prefect getting a couple more years out of the 4 door shell (hence having a bigger serial number than the slantback 105E Anglebox) 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I like the chrome bumper CX too - I'd choose a 2400 Pallas automatic with those lovely chrome wheel trims.

 

 

 

Tbh, any metal bumper CX would be fine - I'd suffer a 2000 Pallas but the object of double chevron porn is a full on Prestige with buttoned leather.

 

These days, an Audi A1 is considered prestigious. The human race is thus doomed,

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Ford guilty, too.   Mk1 Escort Estate and van into Mk2 with same rear panel pressings, likewise Mk1 Granada wagon into Mk2 and the Mk4 Cortina estate didn't alter much from the Mk3 - not that I have checked....Mk2 Granny estates had the A post from the new saloon, though.     

 

Another thing Ford did for quite a while was hang to a cut-price version of an old boner even if they had a new one to sell - 103E Popular was the old upright Anglia until 1959 (hence the higher number than the 100E which should have displaced it.   See also 107E Prefect getting a couple more years out of the 4 door shell (hence having a bigger serial number than the slantback 105E Anglebox) 

 

 

BMW kept the original E12 5 Series going in South Ifrica until 1984.

[Arragonis]

Tbh, any metal bumper CX would be fine - I'd suffer a 2000 Pallas but the object of double chevron porn is a full on Prestige with buttoned leather.

 

I have a slightly deviant liking for 70s crap updated for the 80s - e.g. Ambassador instead of a Princess, Allegro 3, Cortina '80, a plastic Bumpered / Wheel covered CX over a chrome one.

 

A 2200 Auto from about 85 in white would be good. An 86 CX25 DTR Turbo Safari in white would be gooder.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

Ford guilty, too.   Mk1 Escort Estate and van into Mk2 with same rear panel pressings, likewise Mk1 Granada wagon into Mk2 and the Mk4 Cortina estate didn't alter much from the Mk3 - not that I have checked....Mk2 Granny estates had the A post from the new saloon, though.     

 

Another thing Ford did for quite a while was hang to a cut-price version of an old boner even if they had a new one to sell - 103E Popular was the old upright Anglia until 1959 (hence the higher number than the 100E which should have displaced it.   See also 107E Prefect getting a couple more years out of the 4 door shell (hence having a bigger serial number than the slantback 105E Anglebox)

 

Don't forget the Anglia van back doors that lasted in the Escort until 1980.

[Richard]

Ford guilty, too.   Mk1 Escort Estate and van into Mk2 with same rear panel pressings, likewise Mk1 Granada wagon into Mk2 and the Mk4 Cortina estate didn't alter much from the Mk3 - not that I have checked....Mk2 Granny estates had the A post from the new saloon, though.     

 

 

The Mk4 Cortina estate back end dates back to 1970 as the Taunus. http://oldiesfan67.canalblog.com/archives/2010/10/23/19375256.html

[Cleon-Fonte]

As a slight tangent, how many cars have outlived the car that should have replaced them? I'm talking about cars that shared showroom space with their successors, rather than ones that continued in other markets or were sold on to a different manufacturer.

 

We've had the Mini and 2CV so far, I'm struggling to think of any more but there must be some.

 

I'd say the Beetle could also be added to that list. Whilst neither of the cars below were explicitly intended to replace it, it's clear VW wanted them to steal the old car's market and allow them to finally kill it off. Both failed despite the Type 3 selling relatively well.

 

Type 3.

 

 

Then the Type 4 (probably my favourite of all the aircooled VWs).

 

[Arragonis]

The Escort "6th Generation" as Wikipedia calls it was in the showrooms alongside the Mk1 Focus. 

 

In 1998 I had a Ford salesman (I had a company Mondeo at the time in for fixing, again) try and convince me that this "strategy" as correct as "conservative" buyers would go for the Escort and others for the Focus.

 

Unfortunately even if this "strategy" was correct (it isn't) said Escort was a dull 1.6 in turd brown with an official Ford bodykit which made any later Barry look like an artistic genius.

[NorfolkNWeigh]

I have a slightly deviant liking for 70s crap updated for the 80s - e.g. Ambassador instead of a Princess, Allegro 3, Cortina '80, a plastic Bumpered / Wheel covered CX over a chrome one.

 

A 2200 Auto from about 85 in white would be good. An 86 CX25 DTR Turbo Safari in white would be gooder.

I notice you are not quite enough of a deviant to mention this

[vulgalour]

Alfa describing the Four Ages of Man there:

 

First Age: attractive, young, virile, fun, loads of energy.

Second Age: A little more settled, a little more grown up, still attractive and able to keep up.

Third Age: slowing down, faded glory, trying to keep young and be relevant but losing grip.

Fourth Age: I'm cool!  I'm hip!  I'm down with the youth!

[Arragonis]

I notice you are not quite enough of a deviant to mention this

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I'll be back in a while.

[castros_bro]

Puch Maxi

 

 

 

Puch Pinzgauer

 

 

 

 

 

 

Puch Panda

 

 

 

[Guest Lord Sward]

image.jpeg

 

 

I had a Series 4 converted to RHD by Bell & Colville in the late '90s.

[vulgalour]

Castro:  are you saying all Puchs are unwanted stepchildren?  I'm not sure what the link is there.

[320touring]

Tbh, any metal bumper CX would be fine - I'd suffer a 2000 Pallas but the object of double chevron porn is a full on Prestige with buttoned leather.

 

These days, an Audi A1 is considered prestigious. The human race is thus doomed,

That's what I had prior to the fire...

[MarvinsMom]

what?

 

and aldi A1?

 

in that case i think you had a lucky escape.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

......ok i'll get my coat

[martc]

Don't forget the Anglia van back doors that lasted in the Escort until 1980.

 

If we're talking body parts then the Landcrab doors found themselves at the bottom of several gene pools.