Modern cars are rubbish - awful jobs

[dollywobbler]

Stolen from the Interesting Future Tat thread.Jobs I've tried to do on moderns but gave up because it's impossible.Changing a headlamp bulb on a Citroen C3. Really, you should remove the front bumper. You can so nearly get access, but you just end up ripping your hand to shreds. Told him to go to Halfords. It was the best £8 he ever spent. Quite a lot of modern cars seem impossibly complicated in this regard. Makes a mockery of the fact that you're forced to carry a spare bulb kit in France! Especially as French cars seem to be the worst offenders...

[Mat.T]

My dads got a c3 and does quite high millage in it (180k now!) i've got changing a headlight bulb down to an art under 10 mins on the passenger side slightly longer on the drivers side. I've made a few modifications to do this mostly consisting of throwing away 90% of the under bonnet plastics - including the covers on the back of the headlights. These are supposed to stop mosture from getting in, but as the headlights were always filling up with water, they were obviously not doing anything! I created a few drain holes in the bottoms of the headlights with a drill and they're fine now

[andrew e]

When he hits 200k tell him to email Car mechanics mag - there doing a piece on 20k cars every month, there can't be many (any?) C3's with that mileage kicking around.

[VWPowered]

blimey that some mileage, i wont own a new car to much hassle

[r.welfare]

Oil filter location on the 98-03 Accord. Not at the bottom of the front of the lump, oh no. Tucked way up on the nearside behind bits of wishbone and alongside hot bits of exhaust manifold. A right bleedin' bugger to get a strap wrench on to. An oil change would otherwise be a piece of piddle if it wasn't for that.The outgoing Fiesta (2003 model, 1.4 petrol) is also a bugger to get the filter off of, I couldn't get a wrench of any kind on it and had to resort to a large pair of Stilsons in the end. Headlight bulb changes haven't been too bad on the "moderns" we have owned (two of the aforementioned Accords and a Skoda Fabia), although one of the Fabia lights does require a bit of dismantling behind it (battery has to come out, I think). Still, certainly not the hassle that it is on a new Audi A4 or Fiat Stilo, to name two examples.Oh, and removal of seats/steering wheels is a bitch when you've got airbags all over the place just *waiting* to go off if you disturb them.Not a modern, but I had a bugger of a job changing the oil filter (again!) on a Mk2 1.6 Golf this weekend. Then, after an hour or so, I realised I'd been turning it the wrong way...Can I moan about Haynes manuals for moderns? In olden times, they would be released pretty quick and in those wonderful, pre-toilet-paper/spanner rating days, actually tell you how to do stuff. Now they take forever to appear (Fabia Mk1 case in point - car introduced in 2000, Haynes joke book not released until Xmas 2006) and half the stuff says "ooh no, you must take your car to your friendly dealer for this"! OTOH, the proliferation of (bootleg, ahem ahem) factory workshop manuals on CD-ROM on eBay redresses the balance. The one I have for the Accord is bloody wonderful, giving you OEM part numbers and everything.OT, but I like the CM 200k feature. Would my 405 saloon count I wonder, as I've only owned it for the last 25k? I was impressed with the Daewoo Lanos a couple of issues ago!Mat, that's seriously impressive mileage on the C3. Has much gone wrong, or does it show that modern stuff CAN do megamiles without anything electronic throwing a wobbly?

[Mat.T]

Interesting about the Car mechanics mag feature i might have to email them. The little c3 is fine appart from headlight problems. My dad uses it to go from Colchester to South End and back so its only ever done long ish motorway journeys. It gets regualar servicing and cam belts every 80k (citroen recomends 150 i think) Its a 1.4HDi 16v. Not much has gone wrong an injector started weaping and lots of bits of plastic have fallen off - all the engine under tray fell off Thats about it. I need to do the thermostat on it soon as it takes a while to get to normal running temp.Tbh is 200k realy that high for a modern? I help out part time at a small local garage and we regually get cars in with well over 150k most recent was a 406 diesel with 260k and mk4 astra with 190k. These cars were in for general servicing and mots. Regualar servicing is the key regardless of age.

[Guest]

Doing the bulbs on my C4 is a pain in the fucking arse. There's a load of relays in front of the NS headlamp, and the housing itself is tiny, so you can't fit your fingers in.

 

The connector is mega stiff. And the retaining spring pings off if you so much as brush it, and you will cos you can't see what the hell you're doing.

 

No leccy complaints on my car so far, after 2 and a half years and nigh on 50 K, my road rage tantrums (see broken indicator stalk) and several mega hard laps of the Combe:

 

 

The brakes however, specifically the rear chuffing rotors, have been a pain in the proverbial. That Combe shot was taken on set no. 3. Currently on set no. 4. At £85 PER SODDING DISC, that's very expensive motorings.

 

Main agent servicing borders on the obscene - £200 every 12k. I go to my iindependent place, use all OEM parts (and better oil) and get bummed for £90 less of my hard earned, while retaining 'less use than Jade Goody on April Fool's Day' Citroen warranty.

 

I pwned the Gold Capri and XR2i whilst tracking also

[r.welfare]

You're right about regular maintenance. I get a bit OCD about that and tend to do oil changes at half the recommended interval. The Yanks seem to swear by 3k "lube jobs" and it's cheap enough if you get decent-brand filters off the Bay and good oil from Costco. It's also good to get under the car yourself and do a quick check on everything while the oil drains. Too many people seem to swear by this "long life servicing" toss and that means early death in my book.Decent independents are worth their weight in gold but I try and do as much as I can myself (I know my limitations though). When I had a company car (Saab 9-3) the lease company were charged £250 for an oil and filter change by the main dealer, FFS! Ridiculous.Highest-mile car I've had was a 405TD with 247k on it and it was probably the perkiest I've had, easy wheelspin in 2nd! Shame the interior and bodywork were shabby...

[Mat.T]

Too many people seem to swear by this "long life servicing" toss and that means early death in my book.

totally agree with this, 12k+ oil change intervals. On checking the dipstick several have been below minimum Just because the service intervals are high you still have to check the oil and water occasionally! Worst was a 53 plate Volvo xc90 which needed a longer dipstick!

[ashmicro]

I'm with you on the *cough* aftermarket CD ROMs - invaluable. One of the things I hate about moderns is the fact that you can't bloody get underneath them - the rise on a set of Hopkirk 2 ton ramps is just too darn sharp. I reckon you'd need ramps twice as long.Thought I'd cracked it when I had the C43 AMG by jacking the car up and pushing the ramps under the wheels, and driving the rest of the way up.The car went up OK, but when I crawled underneath it my nose was touching the floorpan ( and I have a small, perfectly formed nose)I was lucky enough to meet a guy who has a 4 post comercial lift, and he'll let me use it anytime for a bottle of scotch.Suffice to say, I buy an awful lot of whisky...

[r.welfare]

It's not just moderns that can't cope with ramps though. The Mk2 Golf I mention has the rubber spoilery-bit under the front valance held on with cable ties after it got ripped off by my ramps...I think I need to get some hardboard planks and build a sort-of run up, like folk used to submit to the "top tip" pages in CM in the 70's. But that's too much hassle so I'll just carry on with the trolley jack and axle stands.Funnily enough those ramps seem to work well enough with a 51-plate Polo. So well that the neighbour I lent them too (with the aforementioned Olop) went up them with the engine screaming and overshot the end. He then came running up my drive hollering for my jack...there's still a big dent in the bottom of each front wing behind the wheelarch

[andrew e]

Did I mention the time Mrs E was gesturing a pull foward motion with her hand, what she actually meant after I had driven off the ramps was STOP

[bigstraight6]

Funnily enough those ramps seem to work well enough with a 51-plate Polo. So well that the neighbour I lent them too (with the aforementioned Olop) went up them with the engine screaming and overshot the end. He then came running up my drive hollering for my jack...there's still a big dent in the bottom of each front wing behind the wheelarch

So you live next door to Frank Spencer then MrW!

[MrRegieRitmo]

The 146 was a right pain to work on, even the most mundane & normally simple of jobs you found you needed a special tool specific either to Alfa or to the 146 itself. When we did the brake discs we had to make more than one trip down to the local tool / hardware shop, they enquired 'Ah it's not a 146 you're doing is it?' 'Yes!' 'Ah in that case you'll need one of these...' 'rather you than me' (a special calliper winder tool specific to the 146, or pretty much so).We seemed to find that whatever job we needed to do, Fiat/Alfa had seen to it that there would be something about it that would make the task unnecessarily difficult for no real reason!The headlight bulbs is a good case in point, one of them, can't remember which but it was the first one I tried, was done without too much trouble, certainly it was done inside 5 mins. Moved onto the next one - was it the same ? Was it eck, despite knowing what needed to be done, the lack of room to work with coupled with the inability to get any kind of grip on the components which refused to cooperate meant the 2nd bulb took me about half an hour to change! :evil:In comparison I did the R9 headlamp bulbs a couple of months back - easiest I've ever done, think I had them both changed inside a minute. Obvious how to do them & everything came apart easily!

[Negative Creep]

Headlight bulbs is one thing that really annoys me, I doubt it's coincidence that the cars where it hard to change (206, Focus, Megane, Mondeo) are the ones you always see driving round with a blown headlight. Normally I'm against these sort of things, but surely a ruling should be bought in that all new should be able to have thier bulbs changed by the roadside

[Ratdat]

One difference between modern cars and old ones or at 120k old cars do feel quite tired and worn but often modern cars still seem pretty tight and fresh. My Vel Satis is on about 122k and feels virtually like new still with very little visible wear on anything inside or out. I guess that is probably relevant to the original price bracket of the car mind. I'd wager a 122k Kia Pride might feel a bit more dog eared.I do find virtually anything post 1990 to be a pain in the arse to work on. One of the things i love about Datsuns is their staggering simplicity in most regards. There are hardly any difficult jobs. The R30 on the other hand is a real pig to work on

[Richard]

My Escort was a nightmare to work on. It was the 95 facelift that the motoring journalists loved so needless to say it was worse than the old model in every way. EVERYTHING on that car was more difficult than it needed to be, and things broke on it that I'd never heard of breaking.It was the Escort that put me back onto French cars, suddenly they didn't seem so flimsy and difficult to work on.

[wuvvum]

The servicing intervals on the Cadillac were supposedly 100K - needless to say I would hesitate to leave it even a third of that time before treating it to an oil change. Agree with what has been said about modern cars racking up the miles - the ex-Spottedlaurel Camry estate has done nearly 202K now and still feels tight to drive. Even old Mercs and Saabs are starting to feel a bit loose by that sort of mileage. The Camry is very easy to work on too for a relatively modern car - partly due to the fact that the little 2.2-litre four is completely lost under that bonnet, so there's acres of space around it to remove bits easily. In fact everything under the bonnet on the Camry is easy to get to, due to Toyota having resisted covering everything with moulded black plastic. The only thing that looks like it could be slightly awkward if it lets go is the PAS pump. Having said that, the Caddy wasn't as bad as I was expecting - I had to take the offside headlight out to dry it out for the MoT, and it was a ten-minute job. Not had a proper look at the Magentis yet, but it doesn't look as bad as some. I think the most awkward car I've had for changing bulbs and suchlike was the Alfa 166, but even that was a breeze compared to a Mk2 Laguna.

[Jazzy Jeff]

A couple of weeks ago I tried to change a bulb on our works Renault Traffic. After half an hour of wrestling with it I took it to the Garage around the corner, explaining sheepishly what a faliure at manhood I am.It took them 20 minutes to prize it open, three of them had a go with a whole assortment of instruments. Eventually they got the thing open after a struggle. What a load of crap to go to for one little bulb.

[trigger]

Had to change the headlight blub once on my old Focus, That's a sod of a job too, Think it was the O/S one, You can't get you hand behind it to see, Managed in the end to do it with a mirror, Bloody nightmare.

[FredTransit]

If the clutch goes in the later transit, you have to have a new flywheel and starter cos it takes the lot out. I thought me mate had been ripped off when he told me, it sounds like a line (sharp intake of breath) ooo, your clutch is on it's way out, I will have to re build the front of the transmission mate......And don't get me on how little mileage you get out of the Sport van's tyres (about 2-3000 miles!). Not that I actually care though. A Mk2 clutch is £50 and a day's work, and we get well into five figures out of tyres that cost £45 each new.

[shite_meister]

had to change an alternator on a Citroen Xsara at work today-right awkward bugger, its located at the rear near the bulkhead and in their wisdom Citroen put loads of razor sharp wiring brackets and clips right where you need to put your arm/hand. Not fun at all.

[shite_meister]

Fred I thought it was a case that Ford modifed the Flywheel so you end up having to replace loads rather than it 'taking out the whole lot'

[Richard]

I changed both outer headlight bulbs on the C5 in a few minutes and with only minor lacerations. I find it easier if I look through the front of the headlight.

[Richard]

If the clutch goes in the later transit, you have to have a new flywheel and starter cos it takes the lot out. I thought me mate had been ripped off when he told me, it sounds like a line (sharp intake of breath) ooo, your clutch is on it's way out, I will have to re build the front of the transmission mate......And don't get me on how little mileage you get out of the Sport van's tyres (about 2-3000 miles!). Not that I actually care though. A Mk2 clutch is £50 and a day's work, and we get well into five figures out of tyres that cost £45 each new.

My fwd Transit is approaching 30k on its original tyres. I'm desperate for them to wear out because they are Hankooks and utterly devoid of grip but they aren't even close.

[FredTransit]

Fred I thought it was a case that Ford modifed the Flywheel so you end up having to replace loads rather than it 'taking out the whole lot'

I think they have now (remember I might not pay too much attention to the later stuff) and i know there is a solid replacement available from Valeo, but that doesn't mean to say there might still be a few vans left with the original DMF.

[Guest]

Whole front end apart to replace a mk1/mk2 Mundaneo clutch? Heard mutterings about the need to get special alignment tools when putting it all back together again...

[pogweasel]

Like Mr Ratdat says, it's six and two threes. Old grot is easy to work on. But your constantly locked in a battle against mechanical & body fatigue. New stuff is pretty amazing in that it can go a long time with what would once have been serious neglect. Depends on the brand / model / age though. Had the chance to spend some time whizzing about in our old Focus TD this week, man alive I miss that car - 190,000 now showing on the clock, certainly hasn't been serviced for an age as the roller bearing that had been squealing for a year when we pensioned it off to Mother_In_Law is still squealing away, but it's otherwise as fresh as the day it came off the line. Incredible.

[Station]

Think all French cars are the same. I changed a front strut quicker than the headlight bulb.

[Dukestar25]

The most 'fun' I've had trying to change a front bulb was on a Fiat Stilo.The O/S front is straighforward but the N/S requires either the removal of the front bumper or (as I did) remove the battery, unscrew the battery tray (to which the fuse box is attatched and also needs to be unbolted) and move it all back until you can almost see what you're doing.If you have big hands (which I don't thankfully) this is an impossible task. I believe the Bravo/Bravas were the same...