Winter time, Tagora collection time << now with engine sound and video >>

[Skizzer]

That's just stunning.

 

Numbers 1 to 59 please.

[pshome]

That's just stunning.

 

Numbers 1 to 59 please.

Tickets are 250€ on the continent...

[sporty-shite]

Bolton?

Oi!

[Skizzer]

Tickets are 250€ on the continent...

[sad face]

[pshome]

[sad face]

seriously, having 3 Tagora in the garage, including an SX in the same color that has half the mileage, if somebody is interested, i may consider to sell this one. Possibly personal delivery at shitefest included. If interested, pm me, but wait until we know if the engine runs.

[406V6]

seriously, having 3 Tagora in the garage, including an SX in the same color that has half the mileage, if somebody is interested, i may consider to sell this one. Possibly personal delivery at shitefest included. If interested, pm me, but wait until we know if the engine runs.

Calling TagoraSX   (that's an AS username)

The beige phone is ringing

[pshome]

This was the plan:

 

- clean engine bay

- remove sparks

- check cylinders for visual damage with spy camera thingy

- fill WD-40 into cylinders and let work for a few days

- remove head covers, visual check camshaft etc, put some oil there.

- check electrics

- fill water, check for leaks

- check starter

- check ignition

- check spark plugs

- check oil

- clean carbs

- clean tank

- change fuel lines

- check fuel pump

- hook up battery

- slowly turn engine with ingnition coil disconnected get oil around and everything lubed.

- try a starting the engine

 

then a variant of shitefeaverish impatience set in, so this is what happened:

 

- clean engine bay

- remove sparks

- check cylinders for visual damage with spy camera thingy

- fill WD-40 into cylinders and let work for a few days

- remove head covers, visual check camshaft etc, put some oil there.

- check electrics

- fill water, check for leaks

- check starter

- check ignition

- check spark plugs

- check oil

- clean carbs

- clean tank

- change fuel lines

- check fuel pump

- hook up battery

- slowly turn engine with ingnition coil disconnected to get oil around and everything lubed.

- feed fuel from bottle

- try a starting the engine

 

Please turn up your speakers, here comes the best sounding engine ever bursting into live after 24 years of silence:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRWkP7FiLmk

[406V6]

Glad my wife didn't catching me with a big grin listening to sounds of an engine revving but that was great !! At first I thought it was going to break when it didn't start but it got there eventually. It sounds a proper beast. Thanks for sharing.

 

A car that sounds that good can't be shite.  Discuss in not more than 100 words.

[Royale80]

Fantastic!!!!!!!

[the judge]

Ooofff!!! 1 sticky valve,that will go once run a few times. YUM YUM

[steve_earwig]

That was hardly bursting into life, more like reluctantly chugging. Mixtures all over the place, maybe a cylinder down (stuck valve? Something was blowing when it was cranking) but, my god, after 24 years? Get the pope on the 'phone we have a miracle!

[pshome]

It endend up idling smooth, well... as smooth as an early PRV can. Don't forget, its a 90 degree odd fire with constant rumble being built in.

[eddyramrod]

Pretty damned impressive.  I want!

[Jon]

Impressive but please show us a photo of that 505 with Tagora SX alloys on, as I spotted it wearing at least one and it looked most excellent. As did the wheels on that shiny brown one; those two factors alone would have probably made me buckle and buy it! 

[brownnova]

Autoshite purchase of the year 2016! (so far- although this sets such a high standard... Can it be beaten??)

 

I, like so many of us, really do have a lust for the Tagora.

[pshome]

Impressive but please show us a photo of that 505 with Tagora SX alloys on, as I spotted it wearing at least one and it looked most excellent. As did the wheels on that shiny brown one; those two factors alone would have probably made me buckle and buy it! 

The silver 505 needed something to roll on as the original 505 alloys found better use. It's doomed, once we have removed the engine it will go to the bin. Full story here: http://autoshite.com/topic/19578-505-engine-parts-second-try

 

The wheels on the rotten brown one we had a look at were steel with cheap supermarket covers.

 

If you want these fantastic wheels... car is still for sale, ridiculously overpriced though...

http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=220618278

[cms206]

I was literally shouting at the screen willing it to life during that video. Awesome.

[garethj]

Brilliant!  I had a Granada that took longer to start when it had been laid up overnight.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Now that's a qwality find; it looks like a really genuine car as well. Great work so far - 'scuse my lack of knowledge, but were just this version of the Tagora six pot, or were they all built as sixes? 

Edit: The interwebz tells me that only some were sixes, but most were 4 pot. And RWD. 

Did the Tagora and 604 share the same floorpan and oily bits? The proportions are the same, and I guess they date from a similar release date, although A and C pillars look a fair bit different...

 

[Faker]

Bravo

[pshome]

Now that's a qwality find; it looks like a really genuine car as well. Great work so far - 'scuse my lack of knowledge, but were just this version of the Tagora six pot, or were they all built as sixes? 

Edit: The interwebz tells me that only some were sixes, but most were 4 pot. And RWD. 

Did the Tagora and 604 share the same floorpan and oily bits? The proportions are the same, and I guess they date from a similar release date, although A and C pillars look a fair bit different...

 

That Tagora  outside the Simca factory is actually mine .

 

The Tagora V6 uses the same first generation odd fire 2664 cm³ PRV lump as found in the 604 or 504 CC where it gives 136hp using an odd setup of a single and a dual Solex carb.

 

Talbot deciced to apply some subtle modifications to the engine for the Tagora:

 

- different pistons (Mahle forged racing pistons)

- larger valves, sodium filled

- tubular steel exhaust manifolds

- Dual 3-Barrel downdraft Weber (40 IDA) carburation (as in Porsche 911   )

- hot camshaft

- Electronic ignition from the 604 TI

 

as you can see, a properly tuned racing machine!

 

The story behind this is fascinating: It was but at the time when Simca was bought by Peugeot, that they gained access to a V6 (PRV) and Diesel engine (the 604 turbo Diesel) for the ready to launch C9 Tagora.

This resulted in some last minute changes to the already fully developed car. The engine bay was enlarged to accomodate the new motors and the drivetrain was completely changed using a 604 front and 505 rear. This is why the rear axle is way too narrow for the wide car. 

 

Simca had very good engineering team with pleanty of racing experience. They wanted to show to the Peugeot guys what they are capable of and transformed the PRV, that already back than had a reputation of being slow, rough and sluggish, into a true power horse.

 

The initial plan was to use the Bosch injection that already was available for the 604 PRV (144hp) on the tuned engine.

Bosch quoted them a fortune and years of development time, likely not because it would take so long to adjust the K-Jetronic but rather under pressure of the german makers who feared true competetion in the upper class market.

 

One of the Simca guys then went to a local buddie's Porsche shop and picked up two pairs of Weber's. When the engine was ready it had 200hp!

 

They called Weber in Italy to order a first batch of carbs. Weber looked up their stock and said: sorry folks out of production since many years and castings lost. Weber was not doing well at that time where everybody changed to injection and finally agreed to make new castings and supply the carbs to Talbot who in turn promised a rather large prodcution run. They had plans to produce 60000 Tagora a year!

 

What the Italians delivered carried the same model number, but was quite a bit different from the original 40 IDA. Valves, acceleration pump and various other bits were taken from more recent carbs. That would not be much of a problem, but the quality was horrible and perfomance differed a lot between units.

 

Talbot, already a year late with the V6 (the V6 presented at the Paris car show had a 4 cylinder engine and a guard was present making sure nobody opens the hood!) had no choice but to make the best out of it. They decided to sell the car speced at 166hp. Reason for that was that this was about the lower limit of what they got out of the carbs.

 

For all V6 engines, they had to hand select a pair of Webers that more or less matched and manually jet them to make them work. The engine manual therefore states to be careful to place the jets back into the same barrel when overhauling the carbs! Depending on the mood, luck and how close end of shift was, a Tagora PRV has anything between 165 and 200 hp.

 

The other Tagora SX we own drives easily 210km/h (spec is 196km/h) on normal travel load with two people and luggage (GPS measured!), it certainly has more than 166hp.

 

This is by the way not the end of the Tagora V6 story. Production of the 2664 cm³ PRV ended in 1983. Talbot therefore planned to use the newer 2849 cm³ PRV for the 1984 model year. As we all know, the Tagora never made it into 1984, however 10 protoypes of that engine had already been built, now officially rated at 200hp. Not to waste these engines, when the decision was made to stop production, these 10 engines actually went into 1983 production cars, without telling the customers!

[pshome]

Did the Tagora and 604 share the same floorpan and oily bits? The proportions are the same, and I guess they date from a similar release date, although A and C pillars look a fair bit different...

 

Nope, totally different car, the 604 appeared in 1974, Tagora in 1980. It was only because Peugot bought Simca that (in an effort to save money) the Tagora got a Peugeot drive train and the Peugeot V6 and Diesel engines. The Tagora 4 pot uses the old Simca engine that dates back well into the 1960's.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

That Tagora  outside the Simca factory is actually mine .

 

The Tagora V6 uses the same first generation odd fire 2664 cm³ PRV lump as found in the 604 or 504 CC where it gives 136hp using an odd setup of a single and a dual Solex carb.

 

Talbot deciced to apply some subtle modifications to the engine for the Tagora:

 

- different pistons (Mahle forged racing pistons)

- larger valves, sodium filled

- tubular steel exhaust manifolds

- Dual 3-Barrel downdraft Weber (40 IDA) carburation (as in Porsche 911   )

- hot camshaft

- Electronic ignition from the 604 TI

 

as you can see, a properly tuned racing machine!

 

The story behind this is fascinating: It was but at the time when Simca was bought by Peugeot, that they gained access to a V6 (PRV) and Diesel engine (the 604 turbo Diesel) for the ready to launch C9 Tagora.

This resulted in some last minute changes to the already fully developed car. The engine bay was enlarged to accomodate the new motors and the drivetrain was completely changed using a 604 front and 505 rear. This is why the rear axle is way too narrow for the wide car. 

 

Simca had very good engineering team with pleanty of racing experience. They wanted to show to the Peugeot guys what they are capable of and transformed the PRV, that already back than had a reputation of being slow, rough and sluggish, into a true power horse.

 

The initial plan was to use the Bosch injection that already was available for the 604 PRV (144hp) on the tuned engine.

Bosch quoted them a fortune and years of development time, likely not because it would take so long to adjust the K-Jetronic but rather under pressure of the german makers who feared true competetion in the upper class market.

 

One of the Simca guys then went to a local buddie's Porsche shop and picked up two pairs of Weber's. When the engine was ready it had 200hp!

 

They called Weber in Italy to order a first batch of carbs. Weber looked up their stock and said: sorry folks out of production since many years and castings lost. Weber was not doing well at that time where everybody changed to injection and finally agreed to make new castings and supply the carbs to Talbot who in turn promised a rather large prodcution run. They had plans to produce 60000 Tagora a year!

 

What the Italians delivered carried the same model number, but was quite a bit different from the original 40 IDA. Valves, acceleration pump and various other bits were taken from more recent carbs. That would not be much of a problem, but the quality was horrible and perfomance differed a lot between units.

 

Talbot, already a year late with the V6 (the V6 presented at the Paris car show had a 4 cylinder engine and a guard was present making sure nobody opens the hood!) had no choice but to make the best out of it. They decided to sell the car speced at 166hp. Reason for that was that this was about the lower limit of what they got out of the carbs.

 

For all V6 engines, they had to hand select a pair of Webers that more or less matched and manually jet them to make them work. The engine manual therefore states to be careful to place the jets back into the same barrel when overhauling the carbs! Depending on the mood, luck and how close end of shift was, a Tagora PRV has anything between 165 and 200 hp.

 

The other Tagora SX we own drives easily 210km/h (spec is 196km/h) on normal travel load with two people and luggage (GPS measured!), it certainly has more than 166hp.

 

This is by the way not the end of the Tagora V6 story. Production of the 2664 cm³ PRV ended in 1983. Talbot therefore planned to use the newer 2849 cm³ PRV for the 1984 model year. As we all know, the Tagora never made it into 1984, however 10 protoypes of that engine had already been built, now officially rated at 200hp. Not to waste these engines, when the decision was made to stop production, these 10 engines actually went into 1983 production cars, without telling the customers!

Wow, the Tagora V6 is a proper sleeper really. I guess the Peugeot 505 GTi was indirectly the natural successor to it, although the latter looked like it should go fast!

[TagoraSX]

How did I miss this thread?

 

Fantastic as usual

[TagoraSX]

Calling TagoraSX   (that's an AS username)

The beige phone is ringing

TagoraSX already has Tagora SX.

[pshome]

Wow, the Tagora V6 is a proper sleeper really. I guess the Peugeot 505 GTi was indirectly the natural successor to it, although the latter looked like it should go fast!

i would rather give that title to the 505 Turbo, it was the car that did stand out of the masses. The GTI was state of the art, no  more, no less.

Funny enough, the 505 Turbo uses the Tagora (ex Simca) engine that dates back to the Chrysler 160 !