Sold Howdy, Cowboys! *New Pictures, see Page 8!*

[Lukas]

There is a "Coolant LOW"-warning light. But it did not light up.

 

The "Washer Fluid LOW"-warning light is constantly on though, with the washer-fluid-reservoir completely filled up. 

[Junkman]

It's a pushrod engine, so doing the head gaskets is a pip.

Before condemning the gearbox, have you checked when the fluid was changed?

[Lukas]

Yes, the transmission oil and oilfilter has been changed in 2013 with 191.000km on the clock. Now it has 215.500km on it. 

 

I´ll check the correct oil-level tomorrow. That´s quite a long procedure from what I´ve read in the Owners Manual. 

[eddyramrod]

Oh Dear, Lukas!  You are about where I was 12 months ago with the Sable that Bobthebeard now owns.  I hope it turns out to be nothing expensive for you!

[Lukas]

There are some options to be considered:

 

1. Drive it as long as it drives with putting water in it. Then get it to my friends workshop, have the engine overhauled

    (new head-gaskets, new gaskets all around because it leaks oil too), have the transmission overhauled/repaired/diagnosed

    properly, get the rust welded and parts of the car repainted. Will cost me approximately 3500 Euro. 

 

2. Drive it as long as it drives with putting water in it. Then make it a garden planter/flower bed. Will cost me nothing more, but 

    I´d hoped to get more kilometres out of it. 

 

The car has cost me 1500 Euro to buy, another 550 Euro for the tires. If you count the registration and the train to collect it too,

the whole car cost me ~ 2300 Euro until today. If I chop it up after the 510 kilometres that I´ve driven it, every kilometre would

cost me 4,50 Euro.  That would be very expensive motoring. So chopping it up now is not a real option. Selling it is not an option

too, because as it is now, I would get maybe 500 Euro for it. That would make every kilometre 3,50 Euro.   Even if I get it repaired

and it will cost me 6000 Euro all in all and if I drive it only 6000 km after this little restauration, every kilometre would be 1 Euro "only". 

So repairing it may be the best bet. 

 

The problem is that there is no market for a car like that. So its value is very hard to estimate. The car has no sentimental value

for me, but it´s nice to look at and I enjoy driving around in it and be seen in it. 

 

I am very curious how the Buicks future will look like. I have to admit, it´s almost a bit exciting. 

[Junkman]

get the rust welded and the car repainted beige.

FTFY

[hauserplenty]

Take a good look at the radiator. There is an ATF cooler in there, and when they begin to deteriorate, the end result is diluted ATF, which then can cause transaxle failure if misdiagnosed. It sounds like you've had an air pocket in the cooling system for quite a while.

Also, have the charging system tested and inspected, as a failing diode can light up every light but the correct one.

Put a voltmeter on it, and look for a steady voltage while it's running: .5-.75V deviation indicates this.

For the cost of a new radiator, an alternator, and possibly a battery you could be saying, "I would really rather have a Buick!"

Also remove those battery terminals with a 5/16, or a 7 but be a bit more careful not to round them off, and file all the flat surfaces until they are shiny. Reinstallation is &c. Then try to turn them; they should not. Also those center bolts should be the OEM part, made of lead or zinc. If a bolt has been substituted, it can be troublesome.

If the radiaor turns out to be defective, then an ATF and filter change are also strongly advisable.

[Lukas]

Thank you very much for your great advise!   I´ll have that checked and I´ll buy a new radiator. 

[midnite]

There are some options to be considered:

 

1. Drive it as long as it drives with putting water in it. Then get it to my friends workshop, have the engine overhauled

    (new head-gaskets, new gaskets all around because it leaks oil too), have the transmission overhauled/repaired/diagnosed

    properly, get the rust welded and parts of the car repainted. Will cost me approximately 3500 Euro. 

 

2. Drive it as long as it drives with putting water in it. Then make it a garden planter/flower bed. Will cost me nothing more, but 

    I´d hoped to get more kilometres out of it. 

 

The car has cost me 1500 Euro to buy, another 550 Euro for the tires. If you count the registration and the train to collect it too,

the whole car cost me ~ 2300 Euro until today. If I chop it up after the 510 kilometres that I´ve driven it, every kilometre would

cost me 4,50 Euro.  That would be very expensive motoring. So chopping it up now is not a real option. Selling it is not an option

too, because as it is now, I would get maybe 500 Euro for it. That would make every kilometre 3,50 Euro.   Even if I get it repaired

and it will cost me 6000 Euro all in all and if I drive it only 6000 km after this little restauration, every kilometre would be 1 Euro "only". 

So repairing it may be the best bet. 

 

The problem is that there is no market for a car like that. So its value is very hard to estimate. The car has no sentimental value

for me, but it´s nice to look at and I enjoy driving around in it and be seen in it. 

 

I am very curious how the Buicks future will look like. I have to admit, it´s almost a bit exciting. 

get rid of it and get a car that wasn't engineered by dyslexic monkeys with some crayons, if you spend a load on it and it then it throws more problems your way, you will have wasted your money, and to be honest and not in a nasty way, that car is the biggest heap of yank under engineered out of date even when new rubbish I've ever seen, if you like barges, theres plenty of them out there, cars are meant to be driven, not constantly messed with, character is nothing when your always on  the hard shoulder with t he bonnet up.

[hauserplenty]

Also, when adding the coolant: use either prediluted green or dilute it with distilled water only. Fill the radiator first, expansion bottle last and don't let it glug because that creates air pockets. Hold the bottle with the handle parallel to the rad and tip it sideways to do this best. It takes a bit of patience but it will pay off. Fire it up and turn the heater on full; climate control to 90. Leave the cap off for as long as possible to bleed the remaining air. Then go for a short blag, and top it off after it cools. Repeat the process once more and check it once a week after that.

Forget about DEX-COOL. No shop I've worked in recommends it. It will cause more trouble than it's worth.

No tap water, as it causes electrolysis. A new radiator, thermostat & gasket should always be replaced at the same time. If not, the new radiator may fail much sooner.

[Skizzer]

get rid of it and get a car that wasn't engineered by dyslexic monkeys with some crayons, if you spend a load on it and it then it throws more problems your way, you will have wasted your money, and to be honest and not in a nasty way, that car is the biggest heap of yank under engineered out of date even when new rubbish I've ever seen, if you like barges, theres plenty of them out there, cars are meant to be driven, not constantly messed with, character is nothing when your always on  the hard shoulder with t he bonnet up.

This is the exact opposite of Autoshite thinking.

[Junkman]

This is the exact opposite of thinking.

 

EFA

[Lukas]

Just to test the waters... 

 

https://www.willhaben.at/iad/gebrauchtwagen/auto/buick-sonstige-park-avenue-3800-v6-146283968/

 

If someone takes it for 1200 Euro, I would have lost ~ 1000 Euro. This may be the "best" version to get out of this. 

The new winter-tires I bought before christmas alone were 550 Euro. 

 

If nobody wants it for that amount of money, we will see what happens. 

[Sigmund Fraud]

This is A LOT of car for £900 !!! It would also make for the most epic collection thread of EVER !

[eddyramrod]

Damn.  Damn damn damn damn, in so many ways.  GLWTS, Lukas.

[Guest Maltonian]

Hi Lukas,

 

At great risk of stating the obvious, this is my first post on the Autoshite Forum.

 

With that said I have been a long time lurker on the site and have gained much enjoyment from regular perusing of its content. I am a renegade from North Yorkshire who managed to escape several decades ago and currently reside in the US of A. I will add that I find the general climate of the site to be a breath of fresh air relative to the oppressive PC climate that abounds in today's world.

 

Unlike many of my friends and neighbors, I choose to run older cars for all the reasons well known to autoshiters. For what it is worth, amongst my small fleet of clunkers are a couple of 1991 Buick Reattas - one of which is dog rough, the other of which is actually quite nice. So we are fellow Buick owners!. I do realize that this is something not everybody would be proud of!

 

Now to the point of my post:  amongst my collection of clunkers is a 1999 Pontiac Bonneville which is a high mileage (188,000) daily driver  - this vehicle based on the same GM platform as your Park Ave and is fitted with the same drivetrain and engine - namely Buicks 3800 Series II L36 motor.

 

Based on the symptoms you describe and my own experience with the Series II engine, I do not believe that your situation is necessarily as dire as you believe and that your decision to bail out (at significant financial loss) may be premature. The fix may be easier than you think & does not require cylinder head removal.  Let me elaborate:

 

The Series II motor, while generally regarded a bulletproof, has a common but under-publicized fault that usually rears its ugly head as the engine approaches the 150,000 to 200,000 mile range. The problem involves coolant loss, typically into the combustion chamber through failure of the plastic Upper Inlet Manifold (UIM).  I have owned two Bonnies, both of which succumbed to this problem in the mileage range indicated.

 

The locus of failure is in the region of the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve, and where a so-called "stove-pipe" (through which recirculating exhaust gases pass within the manifold) fails to properly insulate the plastic UIM from the hot exhaust gases. This in turn leads to internal failure of the manifold and resultant coolant leakage into the engine. Hence the white smoke you are seeing in the exhaust. Left untreated this can completely wreck the engine, depending on the extent of heat damage to the UIM. That's the bad news!

 

The good news is that, if caught early, the fix is not that expensive.

 

New (an improved) UIM's are readily available from aftermarket auto-supply stores. The first one I bought was from NAM (National Automotive Manufacturing, Inc) and cost, if memory serves me correctly about $80, although  that was some years ago. More recently, last year in fact  I bought one from Advance Auto for approx. $130. A visit to Advance's website will soon acquaint you with the current price. I believe the one I purchased from Advance was manufactured by Dorman. As an alternative source of supply, am I correct in thinking Rock Auto will ship to Europe - perhaps you or your mechanic can source one from them (Subject to confirmation the Dorman Part Number is: PN 615-180)

 

So, something to think about, before bailing out.

 

Either way, best of luck!

[Lukas]

Thanks for your very helpful posting! I´ll tell my mechanic about it. 

 

I talked to my mechanic and he convinced me to "Stand by my Buick".   He told me to drive it, investigate the loss of coolant 

and look what the gearbox is doing. If the fault-code turns up in normal driving too, we have to investigate further. 

 

Let´s wait and see. It´s too early to sell it in panic, so I´ll keep it and try a bit harder. 

[Lukas]

Hi Lukas,

 

At great risk of stating the obvious, this is my first post on the Autoshite Forum.

 

With that said I have been a long time lurker on the site and have gained much enjoyment from regular perusing of its content. I am a renegade from North Yorkshire who managed to escape several decades ago and currently reside in the US of A. I will add that I find the general climate of the site to be a breath of fresh air relative to the oppressive PC climate that abounds in today's world.

 

Unlike many of my friends and neighbors, I choose to run older cars for all the reasons well known to autoshiters. For what it is worth, amongst my small fleet of clunkers are a couple of 1991 Buick Reattas - one of which is dog rough, the other of which is actually quite nice. So we are fellow Buick owners!. I do realize that this is something not everybody would be proud of!

 

Now to the point of my post:  amongst my collection of clunkers is a 1999 Pontiac Bonneville which is a high mileage (188,000) daily driver  - this vehicle based on the same GM platform as your Park Ave and is fitted with the same drivetrain and engine - namely Buicks 3800 Series II L36 motor.

 

Based on the symptoms you describe and my own experience with the Series II engine, I do not believe that your situation is necessarily as dire as you believe and that your decision to bail out (at significant financial loss) may be premature. The fix may be easier than you think & does not require cylinder head removal.  Let me elaborate:

 

The Series II motor, while generally regarded a bulletproof, has a common but under-publicized fault that usually rears its ugly head as the engine approaches the 150,000 to 200,000 mile range. The problem involves coolant loss, typically into the combustion chamber through failure of the plastic Upper Inlet Manifold (UIM).  I have owned two Bonnies, both of which succumbed to this problem in the mileage range indicated.

 

The locus of failure is in the region of the Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve, and where a so-called "stove-pipe" (through which recirculating exhaust gases pass within the manifold) fails to properly insulate the plastic UIM from the hot exhaust gases. This in turn leads to internal failure of the manifold and resultant coolant leakage into the engine. Hence the white smoke you are seeing in the exhaust. Left untreated this can completely wreck the engine, depending on the extent of heat damage to the UIM. That's the bad news!

 

The good news is that, if caught early, the fix is not that expensive.

 

New (an improved) UIM's are readily available from aftermarket auto-supply stores. The first one I bought was from NAM (National Automotive Manufacturing, Inc) and cost, if memory serves me correctly about $80, although  that was some years ago. More recently, last year in fact  I bought one from Advance Auto for approx. $130. A visit to Advance's website will soon acquaint you with the current price. I believe the one I purchased from Advance was manufactured by Dorman. As an alternative source of supply, am I correct in thinking Rock Auto will ship to Europe - perhaps you or your mechanic can source one from them (Subject to confirmation the Dorman Part Number is: PN 615-180)

 

So, something to think about, before bailing out.

 

Either way, best of luck!

 

I looked at the engine today but did not find anything as I am a hopeless "mechanic". 

 

Is there a possibility that you might mark the area you mentioned on the picture of the engine? Where do I have to look at?

 

 

Thank you very, very much! 

[Junkman]

Er meint die Ansaugspinne. Die ist nämlich aus Plastik.

Das Teil zwischen den Zylinderköpfen.

 

 

PMst Du mir noch Deine Adresse, wegen dem Prospekt?

[John F]

^ Ansaugspinne! Intake spider... love it... I've learnt a new word today!

 

(I would generally refer to it an Ansaugplenum or Ansaugkasten)

[garethj]

Maltonian, that's an impressive first post!

[Lukas]

Ah, die Ansaugspinne! Die wird undicht und damit gelangt Kühlwasser in den Motor? Daher der weiße Rauch. Hab ich das so richtig verstanden?

 

Thanks a lot, Junkman! As always! 

 

And thanks to the Autoshite-audience that allows me/us to write some words in german for my better understanding. 

[Junkman]

Ah, die Ansaugspinne! Die wird undicht und damit gelangt Kühlwasser in den Motor? Daher der weiße Rauch. Hab ich das so richtig verstanden?

 

 

Da geht innen drin was kaputt, deshalb gelangt Kühlflüssigkeit in die Zylinder.

Am besten Du kaufst den ganzen Kit in dem Bild.

 

Hier: http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-615-180-Intake-Manifold/dp/B000C17G5E

Oder hier: http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=Dorman+615-180&LH_PrefLoc=2&_sop=15

[Guest Maltonian]

Maltonian, that's an impressive first post!

 

Thanks for the compliment Gareth.

 

On reflection however, I now realize that I was a little verbose. With hindsight my initial post could have been distilled down considerably.

 

Simply and concisely put, it would have been more elegant to have written:

 

"Its der Ansaugspinnie! Damit!

[Guest Maltonian]

Ah, die Ansaugspinne! Die wird undicht und damit gelangt Kühlwasser in den Motor? Daher der weiße Rauch. Hab ich das so richtig verstanden?

 

Thanks a lot, Junkman! As always! 

 

And thanks to the Autoshite-audience that allows me/us to write some words in german for my better understanding. 

 

 

Lukas,

 

It is good to see that with Junkman's help you are making progress in procuring the UIM.

 

When you have your mechanic replace the UIM, I would like to suggest that as a minimum you have him  also replace:

 

(1) the gaskets on the Lower Inlet Manifold (LIM). The Lower Inlet Manifold is the component which fits between the plastic UIM  and the cylinder head and is made of metal. The gaskets that I am describing here fit between the LIM and the Cylinder Head.

The recommended gaskets have an Aluminum (that's Aluminium in English) Frame and resolved leakage problems that occurred with the gaskets fitted when the engine was originally built. The GM Part Number for these is: PN 89017816.  If you are unable to source these (although with Junkman's help I will be surprised if that is the case!) then you can use gaskets from Fel-Pro. (Fel-Pro Part Number, again subject to confirmation, is: MS95809-1)

 

(2) Coolant Bypass Elbow - this is a very inexpensive (but very critical component) - you can see it at the "front" of the engine - it is located just in  the region of the accessory belt tensioner and supplies coolant to the heater. The problem is that it is made of plastic and in the case of your Park Ave is now approaching 20 years old and subject to failure. It is easy to replace when doing the LIM gaskets, but is otherwise a bitch! They cost about $10 -$15. GM Part Number is 24503423. Again, hopefully Junkman can help you with procurement.

 

Once the above items are attended to you should be Good to Go!

[Lukas]

Today, I drove to Vienna (165 km Autobahn one way) too look at the newest newfangled shit and some nice models standing beside it at the Vienna Auto Show. 

 

I felt brave today, so I checked the coolant, took my ARBÖ (austrian AA) card with me and off I went in the ParkAve. 

 

 

When I plugged in the navigation device after ~ 50 km of driving, suddenly the "Check Engine"-light disappeared.  And the "ABS" & "Traction OFF"-lights that caused a

disturbance the last drives did not light up the complete journey. 

 

So I started to feel confident and cruised to Vienna where the car had lived almost all of it´s life. And I think it liked to go home. It drove perfect, no warning lights

except the "Washer Fluid LOW", but this is the one to ignore. 

 

Look how happy it was being home again. 

 

 

It behaved faultlessly, drove the 330 km without any problems. And without any warning lights.

 

To be honest, I did not expect that. But you may understand the new confidence and the happiness that I feel at the moment, regarding this car. I just used it

under "wrong" circumstances.  It feels sickish and ill on salted twisty mountain-roads that go up and down a lot. But it absolutely feels at home on the flat

Autobahn to Vienna with it´s three and four lanes in one direction. It even loves the city-driving I hate so much. And it shows, because all warning lights stayed

off the whole trip.

 

OK, Buick, I have to apologize! It took me some time to understand you, to get to know your real character. Let´s start again tomorrow. When I check how much coolant

you used on the 330 km. The new intake-manifold is already ordered. 

 

Lukas

[LC Torana]

Yup, it's a highway cruiser.

 

Built for being comfortable on long-distance drives, and for keeping Yanks sane in gridlocked urban traffic.

 

Those two things are indeed what it's made for.

[hauserplenty]

It just goes to show you: Take a roomful of monkeys, give 'em a box of crayons and sooner or later they'll design a Buick!

[Lukas]

 

 

Built for being comfortable on long-distance drives, and for keeping Yanks sane in gridlocked urban traffic.

 

Yesterday, it worked perfectly. Never have I been so relaxed during a traffic jam then yesterday. Hm, maybe in the S80 too. 

[Lukas]

On monday, it has to go! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To my friends workshop to get it repaired. 

 

It used 3 litres of coolant on the last 400km, so its time to do something against it. And when it´s at the shop, the front-fender

will get changed too, the right sill welded, maybe even the rusty rear-windscreen-surrounding repaired. 

 

Why? Because I´ve driven it 1000km now and it really grew on me. At first, it scared me and I thought I´d better sell it as fast 

as I can. But now, after getting to know it, I really appreciate it and I really enjoy owning and driving it. So it stays and so it gets

money thrown at it. I know it will be worth next to nothing after the repair too, but I dont care.