Potential Dilemma - LPG v Dizzle, the debate.

[Lacquer Peel]

They wear well.

 

http://www.driving.co.uk/car-clinic/space-traveller-driving-the-volvo-v70-thats-been-to-the-moon-and-back/

[320touring]

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/volvo-v70-estate-20l-petrol-with-lpg-spares-or-repair/1133870575

 

£225 and as mr Junkman would say

 

"Its fucked"

[New POD]

Try getting someone to weld a car fitted with LPG.

I use Gasless Mig to weld. I suppose LPG could be used, but would you need filler rod ?

[New POD]

Having done 70K in 4 years in a 2.2 Honda diesel, I'd like to point out that unless the alternator clutch is on the way out they are quite. But then given the amount of sound proofing, you'd expect that. And quick. Or rather quick enough. Acceleration in 5th from 70 mph upwards is fecking great. So motorway cruising is so easy.

 

But in the back of my mind is that for less money I could have got a 2.4 petrol version and converted it to lpg.  And which would anyone prefer ? The 2.4 version.

And when it went tits up I bought a petrol astra, because.....erm I did.

[Taff]

I did some digging on getting a system for the F, there is one commercially available. Tank choice is either lose your spare (ala TF) and have the tank up front or have it in the boot and lose all your boot space.

 

nearest station is 0.75 miles from me, arse biscuits

[warninglight]

The LPG fill point and lack of level gauge on that V70 suggests it's a factory Bi-Fuel model. These used Necam Koltec kits which were outdated when the cars were built, suffer from a few issues, and parts are made of unobtainium. For that reason I would AVOID.

 

My first LPGd Volvo was my C70 T5, Prins VSI system in that and it was fantastic. My brother runs a 2005 V70R AWD on a BRC system and likewise has no issues at all. I bought about 18 months ago an 03 plater V70 I was told had receipts for its gas conversion. When I got there (5 hours on a train) it turned out, that it was a factory Bi-Fuel which had fucked itself in such a way that the previous owner found the best option was to pay an LPG installer to rip out the dead bits and fit an aftermarket front end kit. Needless to say the mixture of 2 setups wasn't ideal, and left the EML on, and a few running issues. I got shot of that as quick as I could. The factory cars are all the slowest 140bhp models and only have a 30 litre or so petrol tank which is no use if the gas does stop working for any reason.

 

Factory models, avoid. Well converted models using good kits, BUY!

[mat_the_cat]

Factory models, avoid. Well converted models using good kits, BUY!

 

I'd agree with that too - try finding anyone with knowledge of them if problems develop! Few and far between. Although they seem to be seen as more desirable, presumably due to being perceived as 'better' and/or neater. Most of them are effectively aftermarket anyway, just done on a larger scale and contracted out by the vehicle importer. Not the original factory...

[castros_bro]

Does anyone know why LPG cars aren't allowed on Eurotunnel ? They've got no problem with gas bottles in campers and caravans, but there are signs refusing to take LPG cars.

 

When i did my ADR stuff I was told a tunnel train carrying LPG in car fixed fuel tanks is covered by ADR type regulations as the train is then the consignor and/or carrier but not the same regulations as portable gas cylinders.  The opposite works  (buggers up) the  ferry operators as they have to implement a "no petrol in cans" only petrol in a fixed fuel tank policy.

[warninglight]

My understanding of it (and the most realistic theory) is that when the Chunnel was commissioned and insurances were sorted for various fuel types, the costs of adding a third fuel to the tests etc. Was high, and at the time LPG on this end at least wasn't as common as it is now, so it was never certified.

 

And never has been.

[Junkman]

Whoever drives a diesel shall bloody well shut the fuck up when I burn a few tobacco leaves in his vicinity.

[Bear]

LPG tank explosion at the bowser

 

LPG tank explosion on the highway

 

LPG tank explosion in the street

 

LPG tank explosion in America

 

Fire in the, Taco Bell!

[Bear]

If engines were designed to run on LPG from the start, it would probably be possible to get petrol-matching performance. I personally object to LPG on the basis of "if you're such a skinflint that you want to run a big, thirsty car then sacrifice half the boot and put manky looking holes on the side, FFS, just get a more economical car" - and the cheap nature of those conversions. High end conversions with neat sequential injection systems installed that don't look like the flying spagetti monster made of seemingly random bits of hose and jubilee clips cost more than the amount of fuel most people put into the car during their ownership when it gets to that level.

 

This is an opinion formed during the era of housing-estate Jaguars falling apart and being run on a shoestring, bolstered by shopping for Jeep Cherokees and Mercedes 300TEs and finding the whole reason for the vehicle has been wiped out by a bloody great cylinder in the boot.

 

But diesel is pretty unpleasant, and there are a lot of compromises made for emissions. The only reason DMFs are needed is the cheap, light construction of gearboxes now. They've also contributed to the ridiculous speeds people drive in town - all that torque, people race away from lights, don't pay attention to gearing properly. The reality though is that most people appreciate the running cost improvements - it was life-changing to have a car like the C3 that did over 65mpg on longer runs, and never less than 58mpg over the time of owning it - it meant going anywhere I wanted was not a cause for scrounging pennies. The E320 gives a little of that back and the straight six diesel does sound good - the car also has performance more than adequate to be entertaining.

 

Ultimately the fuel used in the car is not the problem. It's the fact that so many people have to use their cars - either from paranoia or necessity - to commute to work, to take kids to school, to reach affordable (or even "open") shops and decent bank and post office facilities. The bus to Market Harborough from here is less than the fuel and parking charge, and I don't have to drive. What's not to like, other than the fact that the damn thing takes almost an hour, is invariably late on the rather sparse timetable, and (my problem, not a factor in most situations) it's a 1/2 mile walk on a country road with no pavements and 60mph car transporters whizzing by. There isn't a village shop, but where there are, there's usually no parking nearby now - or at least not enough to cope with demand - so it's easier to go to the superstore with a large open free carpark.

 

I guess the other factor, and it's one that I'm never really sure if my view is due to growing up in a relatively small town where everyone knew each other, or just getting older and experience, or if it really has got worse - all of the convenience of using a bicycle is wiped out by the need to carry a load of heavy chains amid the fear that in the five minutes waiting in the Post Office queue, someone will nick it.

[Lacquer Peel]

Whoever drives a diesel shall bloody well shut the fuck up when I burn a few tobacco leaves in his vicinity.

 

diesel exhaust does cause cancer, but the overall risk to society is low compared to other things like tobacco, excess bodyweight, and alcohol.

 

Not my words, Carol, the words of Cancer Research UK. You are more antisocial than a diesel car.

 

[320touring]

Not my words, Carol, the words of Cancer Research UK. You are more antisocial than a diesel car.

 

To be fair to Mr Junkman, he is doing a social service and providing joy to those who see the P6 in all its 16mpg glory!

[andrew e]

What I did to my last diesel 3 and half years ago, it's LPG fuelled Bavarian predecessor (which I still own, 200k and sat dormant) regularly traversed this puddle. This has nothing to do with the debate at all, but leads me to why I switched from LPG after 90k miles and no problems to Diesel:

 

The trouble was LPG pumps started to vanish with petrol station refurbishments, meaning the choice for a 12 hour shift worker dwindled to "bloody awkward" status. Economy is great if your not chucking a half hour round trip into filling your car up. Filing up is a slow motion ball ache too. Then you have to wait for the "right" pump, which in my local garage was closest to the kiosk doors, meaning it was never empty, always something parked on the (combined) pump. My time was more valuable to me than the saving.

 

Regardless after the debacle below I purchased purely petrol again. My current car is a model the dealer had never seen in the flesh as a "Petrol" and thought I was crackers - I told him as I keep cars long term and work in the LEZ, (Low emission zone, basically a high percentage of everything within the M25's boundary) it might prove very good value in a few years when it's still allowed in without a huge penalty fee.

 

Did this about 6 months ago to my lovely Beige Vectra Design wagon. Note the ridiculously low water level. I didn't even breach the interior. Unusual wagon - 6 speed auto, ESP, full satnav, towpack, self levelling shocks a shitter's dream in 2020! Also note the air intake for a 150 HP 16 valve derv Vectra is just beneath the front foglight under the bumper....

[Bear]

AMG G63, 2014 model. 5.5 biturbo V8, heavy, mad, four exhaust pipes that sound like a warzone if you drive through a tunnel.

 

But also 20+mpg driven at socially acceptable pace, stop-start mode, barely needs the throttle touching, will last 30 years.

 

(Also it's fantastic being stopped at the lights for pedestrians and having the stop-start kick in with an impressive bark and blast of hot air from the side-exit pipes).

 

Probably one of the most environmentally friendly cars you can buy given their longevity.

[Junkman]

http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/volvo-v70-estate-20l-petrol-with-lpg-spares-or-repair/1133870575

 

£225 and as mr Junkman would say

 

"Its fucked"

 

I agree, but actually, I don't. This looks like a bloody bargain for some Scotsman up there.

[xtriple]

I have only pee'd about with one diesel car, a Renault 19 that I bought cheap and had to fit a chuffing gearbox too! It was horrid! Slow, noisy and smelly but awesome on fuel and sold well so I was a happy camper! I am allergic to diesel as well which doesn't helpso when stuck behind some old fashioned smokey thing, I have to stop and let it escape or overtake promptly!

 

I admire the old ones immensely for their frugality and long lasting nature with minimal maintenance. The modern ones are SHIT! Yes, they go well and sound better and have a much cleaner exhaust which rarely bothers me but the makers - prompted by governments- have truly fucked them up! The best reason for diesel is they are sooooooo simple and robust... er!

 

Not any more, everything is electronic and fucked about with to the max and they last ten minutes (compared to the old ones) and cost a fortune to keep going. I know if they are used constantly and properly they can still do big mileages but so few people use them properly!

 

LPG is a great idea in theory but in practice, I avoid them like the plague! Again, it's a simple system (er, is it?) let down by people who fit them incorrectly and then never service the system or if they do, don't really understand them whein it goes wrong.

 

Two cases: my old next door neighbour did big miles commuting but always wanted a Jaguar. He finally talked himself into buying a very expensive (as in overpriced) 'S' type because it was fitted with LPG. He spouted all the usual arguments, all valid, but I really tried to put him off the idea... Anyway, in the year he had it ( he usually keeps cars for decades and should be on here as he lloves shite cars - Triumph 2000 and a Rover P6 both under covers in his driveway) it spent months in various 'specialists' trying to get it working properly and it never did. He sold it and prayed that the LPG would work long enough reliably for the buyer to get far, far away.

 

2nd: my mate opposite has a big crewcab 4x4 thing with a 3.0 V6 in it on LPG. It's just been serviced at another 'specialist' and the LPG doesn't work at all! He is now running a Smart car while the pick-up languishes on the road.

 

While I have been looking for a car, if I saw the letters 'LPG' in the advert I quickly dismissed it. Oh, and why do they so frequently put the filler thing in such a ridiculous spot?  Hate them!

[Junkman]

I sold my LPG Range Rover when the last petrol station in town stopped selling LPG and I was relegated to fill up

at a gas merchant in a dodgy industrial estate who had no roof above the LPG pump and only accepted cash.

There is something called life quality, which only a petrol satisfies satisfactorily. I'm willing to pay the extra cost.

YOLO etc. etc.

[lisbon_road]

Now been running my Astra on lpg for a few months.  Faultless.  Smooth, quiet, and very slightly more go than petrol.  Tidy installation, cheap as done by Polish installers.  undeniable loss of space.  Proper sequential system, starts on gas.

 

The installers said that the install was relatively easy as it is a simple car, with plenty of space and in excellent condition.  They said that anyone would be amazed the number of cars they get given which are in need of servicing or much more.

 

And propane seems to be used as a propellant in lots of aerosols.  Can you imagine spraying aerosols around with petrol or diesel in them?

 

Guess I am just lucky with stations as there are plenty where I go, and mostly Shell who don't seem to rip off like BP do.  And there are some independants at around 49p per litre.  I don't mind a lack of canopy for that price, I am that cheap.