End of hydropneumatic suspension (apparently)

[Negative Creep]

If only British Leyland had bought them in 1974 rather than Peugeot.

 

I expect the results would have been hilarious.

 

 

Probably have spend most of their time arguing whose turn it was to go on strike.

 

Not usre if it's the same for the modern ones, but my 406 does ride very well and is a comfy place to be

[Junkman]

Citroen would stand a better chance if they called their premium models Le Xus, Infinitee or, perhaps J'Aguar

 

Have you ever heard of a marque called "Talbot"? It could be nicely followed up with "Lago".

It would be a bit as daft as resurrecting Rover, though. Or - jech - MG.

 

In reality, the best thing Peugeot could do with Citroen is let it die in dignity, before it's too late.

[Talbotman]

Twas me that deleted my post..i was annoyed at myself for mixing up my 605 and 607 eras....I very briefly ran a very early fully loaded top spec G plate 3.0 sei Xm 8 years back...and it's electrics lived up to the temperamental reputation of those very early cars,terminal rot around the rear subframe killed it sadly...... But to cut to the chase....Coincidentally a few days ago I dug out some of the official Citroen blurb that I had given to me for the dealer launch of the 2008 C5...naturally Citroen was attempting to claw back some fleet sales in the company car market..but also maintain its very loyal lovers of the previous C5s who also a great percentage had owned Xantias too.

Being that the Hydro was only available on top spec Exclusive models..and at cost option status we were encouraged to sell the advantages of springs...and actively asked whether they could tell the difference comfort wise between that and hydro...which of course many could not as obviously the Hydro set up had been tuned to ape the sprung cars as much as possible. Hydropneumatic suspension in Citroens the past 7 years has very much been a token gesture to the past...and it looks like that gesture is about to be aborted for good. The revised Ds5 has just been launched, not a hope of Hydro but it does have revised springing and damper rates to make it a more comfortable proposition.

The C6 was always a curates egg...for all its old school exterior loveliness..the Hydro combined with 20 inch low profile rims and tyres didn't really work...it would pitch,crash and tramline very easily,the serenity you'd expect from a big Citroen was sadly lacking. The very rare but cheaper lighter lower spec 2.2 hdi with smaller higher profile tyres drove much much better and was more comfortable too.

[cort16]

I just drove past a Hyundai i30 on the m8 with the words "XM Detection Unit" written on  the boot. I've no idea why. That is all.

[forddeliveryboy]

die in dignity, before it's too late.

 

 

/Splutters into coffee/

[martc]

Have you ever heard of a marque called "Talbot"? It could be nicely followed up with "Lago".

In reality, the best thing Peugeot could do with Citroen is let it die in dignity, before it's too late.

 

Talbot is another devalued brand due to their position as second fiddle to Peugeot (sound familiar?). I'm not sure there's enough punters who can think back to the various Talbot's glory days of the 1930's. But many can remember the Talbot's of the 80's and not with a great deal of affection.

 

PSA have of course inherited the Rootes names and SIMCA when they bought Chrysler Europe.

 

How about a Singer or Humber as a luxury brand ?! SIMCA had some nice model names which sound a bit more classy than "DS" for example Vedette, Aronde or Ariane (for the space age connections)?

[Junkman]

Space Age is soooo last century...

 

Besides, the posh Simcas were called Chambord, Versailles, President, or 1501 Special.

I don't think either of these monikers would resonate well with today's potential clientele.

 

Back to reality. If Piggo wanted to play in the premium market segment, they would have to try to lure customers away from Mercedes, BMW and Audi.

This would merely cause some hearty rofflers in Germany, that's for sure. They wouldn't even bother to upgrade their advertising campaigns.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Talbot is another devalued brand due to their position as second fiddle to Peugeot (sound familiar?). I'm not sure there's enough punters who can think back to the various Talbot's glory days of the 1930's. But many can remember the Talbot's of the 80's and not with a great deal of affection.

 

PSA have of course inherited the Rootes names and SIMCA when they bought Chrysler Europe.

 

How about a Singer or Humber as a luxury brand ?! SIMCA had some nice model names which sound a bit more classy than "DS" for example Vedette, Aronde or Ariane (for the space age connections)?

 

 

Trouble is, to sell prestige* cars you have to tap into the moronic X Factor on ice has got talent Towie what Chelsea did next mindset. If it hasn't got a well established prestige* badge then it's not worth shit. Look at what BMW sell most of now, and the adverts on TV for Mercs. This is what poor buggers like Ford and GM are up against. 

 

The top layer of scum is RR, Rolls, Bentley, Aston and so on. The sort of cars few of us would want too be seen in due to the awful image and connotations.

 

Second tier - Merc, BMW, Audi. Lexus would love to be here.

 

Third tier - VW. Volkswagen are very clever. They have made a very average car with questionable reliability into a yummy mummy semi prestige product, soft feel plastics and rusty front wings. Fool/money syndrome. Skoda for the budget conscious for those who could buy an Audi but don't want to and Seats for 22 year old tattooed thugs who'd shit themselves when confronted by a Royal marine fresh back from a tour.

 

Fourth tier - Ford, Vauxhall, PSA and increasingly, the Japs.  The first three are pretty much fucked. 

 

 

And why?

 

 

 

 

.................Kia.

 

 

Who, with a full set of brain cells, would buy a new Ford, GM or PSA car in preference to a neat and well made Korean car with a 7 year warranty? In fact, who would buy a VW in preference? I'm fucked if I would.

Kia make a decent car with a warranty that reflects what a person spending a lot of money deserves - if you can't guarantee than a modern car won't fuck itself within 7 years, it's not worth the money. They're getting better all the time and they're selling these things worldwide. PSA don't. They don't sell their stuff in the US and they're relying too much on a European market, giving shit away on a 'just add fuel' hiding to nothing. 

[Junkman]

PSA don't. They don't sell their stuff in the US...

 

Incidentally, this costs them a lot of sales in the European market, too.

As in if your chod isn't even good enough for driving on empty straight roads at 55mph, it must be right old tosh.

 

[Junkman]

Anyway, I just checked out the Kia website and found this symptomatic for today - the primary selling points they mention for the Optima:

• 17" Alloy Wheels
• Air Conditioning
• Electronic Stability Control (ESC) & Vehicle Stability Management (VSM)
• Sculpted Side SIll (sic) mouldings
• Hill-start Assist Control (HAC)
• Bluetooth® with Voice Recognition & Music Streaming
• Front & Rear Fog Lights
• LED Day Time Running Lights

 

So this dismal meaningless first world shit is most important for today's car buyers.

I think based on that everyone can figure out for himself where Hydropneumatics rank.

 

 

 

 

[forddeliveryboy]

Fashion goes in circles. Who knows, if Mercedes' trick magic eye+active suspension trickles down into other models, comfort and better roadholding could be the next big thing for the masses when marketing depts run out of other new ideas.

 

I helped a lady buy a new car last year to replace her X-reg Yaris and suggested she try Kia and Hyundai, having not been impressed with the current Yaris or Audi A2. A few months down the line, she's very impressed with the Kia. So not just PSA, Vauxhall and Ford who need to watch out but Rev Bluejeans' tier two stuff also.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 

Anyway, I just checked out the Kia website and found this symptomatic for today - the primary selling points they mention for the Optima:

• 17" Alloy Wheels
• Air Conditioning
• Electronic Stability Control (ESC) & Vehicle Stability Management (VSM)
• Sculpted Side SIll (sic) mouldings
• Hill-start Assist Control (HAC)
• Bluetooth® with Voice Recognition & Music Streaming
• Front & Rear Fog Lights
• LED Day Time Running Lights

 

So this dismal meaningless first world shit is most important for today's car buyers.

I think based on that everyone can figure out for himself where Hydropneumatics rank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just checked out the 1998 E36 brochure. And I've been checking what options my Touring has.

 

Aircon

ABS

Electric windows

Electric sunroof

PAS

Centre armrest

Radio cassette player - with FM.

Remote locking on the key.

 

...er.......

 

 

...I'm struggling to think what else I need whilst traversing twixt A and B.

 

Perhaps it should do a Kia and have a TV advert with an overtly gay black man going 'whoosh'..........? 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I helped a lady buy a new car last year to replace her X-reg Yaris and suggested she try Kia and Hyundai, having not been impressed with the current Yaris or Audi A2. A few months down the line, she's very impressed with the Kia. So not just PSA, Vauxhall and Ford who need to watch out but Rev Bluejeans' tier two stuff also.

 

 

Good. Another one in the eye for VAG.

[cort16]

 

Anyway, I just checked out the Kia website and found this symptomatic for today - the primary selling points they mention for the Optima:

• 17" Alloy Wheels
• Air Conditioning
• Electronic Stability Control (ESC) & Vehicle Stability Management (VSM)
• Sculpted Side SIll (sic) mouldings
• Hill-start Assist Control (HAC)
• Bluetooth® with Voice Recognition & Music Streaming
• Front & Rear Fog Lights
• LED Day Time Running Lights

 

So this dismal meaningless first world shit is most important for today's car buyers.

I think based on that everyone can figure out for himself where Hydropneumatics rank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Does it mention anything about XM detection units?

[Talbotman]

Kia have, and continue to be ruthless in their pursuit of the big guns. Poaching Peter Shreyer from Vag Audi ten years ago to create their Jap/Germanic design language was a masterstroke...especially when barely a decade ago they were offering such beauties as the Cerato and the Shuma. It is interesting to note though that as their aspirations are growing higher...so are Kias prices. In a surprising twist it's Psas arch adversary Renault with Dacia looking to soak up the sub Kia market now.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Kia have, and continue to be ruthless in their pursuit of the big guns. Poaching Peter Shreyer from Vag Audi ten years ago to create their Jap/Germanic design language was a masterstroke...especially when barely a decade ago they were offering such beauties as the Cerato and the Shuma. It is interesting to note though that as their aspirations are growing higher...so are Kias prices. In a surprising twist it's Psas arch adversary Renault with Dacia looking to soak up the sub Kia market now.

 

But how far will it get? They're selling Renaults made in Romania and folks wants brands, not VFM it seems. Having said that, I do see a few on the road. Better than the dismalness that is MG.

 

Kias are Ford/Voxal money, but if the product looks and drives as well with better reliability, dealer service and a mega warranty....why not?

[Junkman]

I just checked out the 1998 E36 brochure. And I've been checking what options my Touring has.

 

Aircon

ABS

Electric windows

Electric sunroof

PAS

Centre armrest

Radio cassette player - with FM.

Remote locking on the key.

 

...er.......

 

 

...I'm struggling to think what else I need whilst traversing twixt A and B.

That's the very reason why the last ever car brochure I read was from 1989 and it's exactly that one which made me conclude that the motorcar did not survive beyond 1986.

 

 

 

Perhaps it should do a Kia and have a TV advert with an overtly gay black man going 'whoosh'..........?

 

That's another thing. There is now an increasing number of adverts on this there television thing, where I have absolutely no idea what they are actually adverstising.

If I then ask my children what this bollocks was all about, they always tell me it's either a car, or one of those there telephones what other people carry with them nowadays.

 

 

Back in the good old times, when they still made cars, Hydropneumatics were advertised by Grace Jones, so I said "rah" and went and bought me a CX.

After I had changed my kecks, of course.

[Coprolalia]

Driving about some of the rougher parts of the South West and Wales I'd agree with the 4th level theory above.

I see a lot of people buying Kias who would have previously bought Kas/Corsas.

 

However I also see loads of Ford Fiestas. I think Ford have done well to up their reliability reputation somewhat while maintaining decent pricing. Lots of young people running fiestas on finance as follow-up to a shit first car. Seems to occupy the 'I'm now working so can afford to treat myself to a better car' bracket. I don't think these cars will see ten years given the demographic that buy them and the build quality. If you have an ounce of sense and take care of your car you buy a Kia. If you know sod all and bounce the valves about sans oil then you buy a Fiesta. If you know sod all, bounce the valves sans oil but want to look pretty doing it, you get a DS3.

 

A non-car friend recently bought an ex-demonstrator Bluemotion golf. Nice car and good on fuel, but the quality of the materials used is shocking. Everything feels a bit tinny and thin, like the late 80s/ early 90s Fords.

 

I've seen loads of Mokka's and the new Cactuses. I think Citroen and Vauxhall are onto winners there, selling cars to dim people who know nothing about cars but want to appear cool and fashionable. 

The "Look at me I've got a brand new 4x4 DERP DERP" demographic.

 

I've also seen a fair few Dacia's. Mainly the 4x4 thing. I can see the logic, and they actually look fairly simple. Seems to appeal to people who want a Mokka or a Cactus but can't afford one. Life expectancy 5 years tops.

 

I had to actually go away and look up what Peugeot were selling as I had absolutely no idea. Nothing stands out. Only interesting thing was the RCZ, and even that's been about for a while. Peugeot should go back to building go-kart hot hatches and utilitarian estates.

[MarvinsMom]

i must admit to finding the big kia an attractive looking car, sadly it only comes with some daft arsed modern diesel with dmf, dpf, piss flaps and all the other things what go wrong...

 

now if it came with a nice pez motor, and i could bring myself to spunk out loads on hire purchase.... then i suppose i would...

[forddeliveryboy]

Crap quality video, but even so the advantages shine through.

 

[Wilko220]

Looks as if the Chinese have "reinvented" it...

Can BYD Replace Citroen as a Suspension Wizard? Meet DiSus - autoevolution

[RayMK]

1 hour ago, Wilko220 said:

Looks as if the Chinese have "reinvented" it...

Can BYD Replace Citroen as a Suspension Wizard? Meet DiSus - autoevolution

There are a few other manufacturers that have offered clever suspension and several still do.  The proof of the pudding with BYD will be whether they've managed to produce a system which is reliable, can easily be maintained and gives superior ride comfort.  Far too many modern vehicles suffer from appalling bump thump, caused by  reduced compliance in suspension bushes, reduced suspension travel, stiff anti-roll bars and low profile tyres.  These features may be fine on good surfaces and race tracks but on typical public roads it makes for an uncomfortable ride with alarming bangs and thumps which take all the pleasure out of driving.  I've owned a Citroen GSA and a CX GTi Turbo 2 and also travelled many miles in Xantias (including an Activa), the CX being the best for excellent roadholding and handling whilst still having minimal roll and superb ride comfort.  Even their unconventional non-hydro-pneumatic 2CV and Dyane were far more comfortable than most modern small to medium cars on poor surfaces.  

[Bmwdumptruck]

1976 my dad bought a new Triumph 2500TC having had two previous 2000’s.  He and his business partner (garage owners) always bought british, his partner had a new Rover 2200TC at the same time.  I can just about recall how bad they were.  Ours was in and out of the dealer for gearbox’s, overdrive’s and final drive’s, nothing cured the whines. A year on they basically said stuff it, shoulda bought what the really fancied, dads being the CX that had been released the year before.  
So they flogged the two BL disasters and dad bought a new CX Safari (2.1-2.2 petrol, can’t recall exactly what the first ones were), his Partner went with a racy Lancia Beta 2000……. We won’t go there as this is a citroen thread😀

Over the following years dad had 3 more Safari’s, A 2.4 petrol, a Cmatic 2.4 and eventually a 2.5tdi mk2.  And then moved to an XM petrol which last I spoke to him he still had. In amongst these he also had 2 GS estates, one of which was Cmatic which I enjoyed borrowing whenever possible. In 86 he bought a new BX 1.9D estate which again, last I heard he still drives. He’s more recently bought a newer BX TZD estate but has never got it on the road needing an unobtainable rear abs sensor to get it mot’d. I think he’s given up on that one now.  
We use to go to owners club rallys back in the 80s, and I’ve owned a BX and C15 van in the 90s and a Zantia in the early 00s, although that was the worst car I’ve ever owned.   It’s fare to say he absolutely loves Citroens and their suspension, and being a mechanic learnt to fix and maintain them.  
However, one of my….. our…..last arguments was over how it’s unnecessarily overcomplicated for so little advantage these days.  When the DS came out, literally everything else on the road had live axles and cart springs. The difference was a chasm. But modern coil over set ups, especially those with electronics to adjust damping and spring rates to suit have more than caught up, leaving Citroens system struggling with it’s poor repuation.  
There’s certainly no surprise it’s been dropped.