Parking charges on private land to be tested in court

[Chas4545]

We all know about parking charges of £60 or more for overstaying in shopping centres , motorway services  etc.

I guess most of us would follow the interwebs advice and ignore all letters and make no contact.

Has anyone  here actually been taken to court by a parking company ?

 

[fordperv]

From what I gather parking eye started pursuing fines in the courts if people didn't pay, i havn't had it personally, did you see that show on c4 about private parking companies a few weeks back, some of the stuff was disgusting

[Andrew353w]

Yes I did! This comes down to bullying parking enforcers vs. negligent parkers. I can see both sides of the argument since owners of private land, who find that it's being used for casual parking by all and sundry need a method of prevent it. That said, illegal clamping/intimidation etc. isn't the answer. Trespass is a civil offence, not a criminal one, so the police are reluctant to get involved. 

[Guest Breadvan72]

The key issue in the case that the Court of Appeal is considering is whether the large amounts charged for unauthorised parking on private land are unenforceable as penalties because they do not represent a genuine pre estimate of loss sustained by the operator of the car park.   That's a contractual issue.  If the claim is put on the basis of trespass (which is what's known as a tort, a civil wrong not based on an agreement), then again the argument is that the amount claimed is excessive by reference to any real loss sustained.

 

The Government legislated to curb abuses by outlawing clamping on private land, but that left unresolved the argument about penalty charges and also left landowners without clear remedies against selfish gits.  It would be sensible for the Government to legislate to permit landowners to charge reasonable and limited penalties, and to create an effective and binding appeals process like the one that applies to public sector parking penalties (instead of the current industry voluntary appeal system).  This is not high on anyone's agenda, however.

[Junkman]

Yeah, this WW3mongering, building new nuclear power plants in public nature reserves and allowing GMO foods without being labelled as such certainly have a higher priority.

[warren t claim]

Dugong to the beige courtesy phone.....

[Richard]

Things have changed since Dugong's experience. Unless you live in Scotland you can't ignore them any more. I'm currently ignoring hate mail because somebody forgot to put a free ticket on my car, much as I'd like to send them some hate mail back.

[gallondrunk]

I was of the impression that after about 2005 private car parks and the like are treated as an extension of the public road network.

 

It was done ostensibly to stop people doing doughnuts in their local B&Q car park, but I would bet it applies to parking tickets as well.

[HillmanImp]

Mrs Imp recently overstayed her welcome at the Co-op as she bumped into a friend when she was in there and popped for a coffee and a natter in the shop round the corner, not really thinking that there was a charge for doing this.

 

I copied one of these letters off Pepipoo pretty much saying what BVs post says and sent it off and they came back and said that they were letting her off.

[Jikovron]

I have successfully ignored 4 such tickets between 09 and 14 due to empty credit and CCJ promises wrapped in a meek and simpering cellophane of forcefulness used by the relevant organisations, all have been cause by me being organic and needing to discontinue the motorway journey for a sleep and subsequent inability to self limit the break to within the 2hours sometimes on my commute home.

 

I even have a dvla fine of mysterious origin that I'm giving an ignorant view towards in a similar way I regard salmon fishcakes, as if they cant describe the problem accurately then whatever! basically

[alf892]

Private 'fines' used to be childs play to avoid as it was only a breach of contract and not always easy for them to prove that a contract had been entered into. I was fleet manager for a 3000 vehicle fleet and made it policy that all private parking letters were ignored.........and we used to get quite a few.

 

Until last year they had no real power to get you to finger the driver...........BV can probably give chapter and verse on this but now I think there is a strengthened obligation for you to help. It is this that makes it much easier for them to take you to court.

[Guest Breadvan72]

All that changed was that in some circumstances the parking charge can be enforced against the registered keeper, but ONLY if the charge is enforceable in the first place.  The issue of no loss and of penal clauses in contracts still arise.  

 

I would avoid peepipoo as it is full of ranty libertarian nutters who think of parking where they like as a fundamental human right (ditto driving at whatever speed they like) and in the parking context encourage the taking of bad points, when all you need is a simple argument about no or negligible loss.  One reason why a case is going to the Court of Appeal is that two motorists relied on all the bullshit peepipoo arguments, probably pissed off the Judge, and lost on the good points as well as the bad ones.      My money is on the Court of Appeal reversing the Judge, but I could of course be wrong about that.

 

Private car parks are not extensions of the public road  for the purposes of parking enforcement.  IIRC, insurance rules can apply to roadways within car parks to which the public have access, but that's a different subject, and one I CBA to look up.

[dollywobbler]

Indeed. People have wrongly been punished for overstaying in some cases, but I'm pretty darned sure others have just taken the piss. Jikovren's post about needing a kip on a motorway is valid. It's utterly nonsensical to limit parking at services to 2hrs. Who really wants to stay longer than that unless sleep is required?

[fairkens]

Indeed. People have wrongly been punished for overstaying in some cases, but I'm pretty darned sure others have just taken the piss. Jikovren's post about needing a kip on a motorway is valid. It's utterly nonsensical to limit parking at services to 2hrs. Who really wants to stay longer than that unless sleep is required?

free parking is limited to two hours, you can pay an hourly rate/overnight fee after that which is less than the penalty

[messerschmitt owner]

Today, I told some of these c*nts to take me to court over an unpaid parking fine. See you there, I said, but you will lose and I will be billing you for my time and inconvenience and when you ignore the invoices, I shall proceed to court against you.

 

I could do this, safe in the knowledge that I had paid the grubby thieving b&st&rds the money thirteen days before they sent the demand for payment as the fine was in the name of the registered keper (SWMBO) and she nagged me to pay it against my better judgement.

 

Not happy I was forced to pay but now happy I can let rip at the fuckers with the blessing of SWMBO.

[gordonbennet]

There does need to be some form of redress for landowners though, or you find car parks provided for local shops stuffed with piss takers leaving their cars there all day whilst at work and nowhere for genuine customers of the shops to park.

 

Similarly it must be a bloody nightmare for people who live near stations etc who happen to own a bit of land, even an open driveway, some of the bullying bastards would just dump their cars.

 

As usual its the piss takers and bullies on both sides who ruin it for everyone.

[Hendry]

I got one for parking in a disabled bay at the retail park end of the Braehead shopping centre (one of the biggest in Scotland) at 4.55pm on a Sunday when the whole place was deserted and there was about another 100 disabled bays (yes its selfish and I was wrong) and got letters with pictures of my car in the bay, then more letters threatening me with heavier fine, then more saying it was now with a debt collection agency (who were a trading name of the PPC with same registered address) then further ones saying they would reduce the fine if I paid up now before it goes to court (if they really were legit and thought they had a single chance of going to court and winning it they wouldn't offer a reduced fee) anyway then they sent a letter saying they were taking me to court, i ignored all letterthis was nearly a year ago and not heard a peep since.

 

My dad is currently going through similar with a similar but different PPC and debt collection agency for parking for 3 hours and 10 minutes in a car park with a maximum 3 hour stay.

 

I googled it when I first got the ticket and they all said avoid all correspondence and eventually after going through the motions they'll leave you alone, but if you dispute it or call up and refuse to pay it then they will hound you forever more as they've got a rise out of you.

[fairkens]

All that changed was that in some circumstances the parking charge can be enforced against the registered keeper, but ONLY if the charge is enforceable in the first place. The issue of no loss and of penal clauses in contracts still arise.

 

I would avoid peepipoo as it is full of ranty libertarian nutters who think of parking where they like as a fundamental human right (ditto driving at whatever speed they like) and in the parking context encourage the taking of bad points, when all you need is a simple argument about no or negligible loss. One reason why a case is going to the Court of Appeal is that two motorists relied on all the bullshit peepipoo arguments, probably pissed off the Judge, and lost on the good points as well as the bad ones. My money is on the Court of Appeal reversing the Judge, but I could of course be wrong about that.

 

Private car parks are not extensions of the public road for the purposes of parking enforcement. IIRC, insurance rules can apply to roadways within car parks to which the public have access, but that's a different subject, and one I CBA to look up.

If it's the judgment I'm thinking of the circuit judge inferred in the judgment that with better advocacy the result might have been different

[Chas4545]

I no longer use Mcdonuts car parks cos of the selfish  fines, so have lost weight and feel better.

I no longer buy anything at services for same reason.

But if I should want to stop at a services, have a coffee and a nap at 3.00 a.m. but cannot follow the government advice to rest up cos of risk of fines, that seems wrong to me.

I just love France, park where you like. Praps there are just too many cars in UK now.