Engine Swap making it legal

[purplebargeken]

Little White Toledo has a TR7 engine and stuff in it. This was done a while ago but never registered with the DOOVLA regarding the change. Ideally I'd need a receipt from the person who provided the engine but that is not going to happen as I don't have the details and the previous owner has moved and is in house chaos.

 

Any ideas?

 

Cheese

[tooSavvy]

Make It ALL UP......

 

No M.P. has ever been caught with his pants down in such circumstances.. reely 

 

TS

[Sigmund Fraud]

IIRC, they can also accept an engineer's report or a letter from the local garage.

[scruff]

My experience is that they will just change it!

I think they found demanding engineers reports, letters etc was causing more aggro than it's worth, when dealing with old car folk. I've certainly seen this mooted on other forums.

Worst case Ken is you'll change your V5, send it off and you'll get a letter back asking for a report/whatever. I'm sure someone in the AS community would help if needed.

[purplebargeken]

Ok guys, I'll give it a go, WCPGW.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I'll write you a report although it will of course be signed M. Bo11ox at the bottom which might negatively impact its credibility

[Taff]

In no way do I endorse what I am about to type, ok? I never said it and you can't ever prove I said it.

 

Send the V5C off with just an engine number change. Nothing else. When it come back, you will have the right number but incorrect cc.

Wait 4 months, then send it off again for just a cc change.

 

Check my user name. I went to school with the type of people who work at DVLA. You know how smart I are.

[barefoot]

Similarly, when I fitted pistons & barrels to the 1303, I just sent off the V5 with the capacity change, nothing was ever asked for.

[cort16]

I need to do this for my Cortina. It's logged as a 1.3 but it's got a 2.0 pinto in it (205 block YO). I don't fancy explaining "i thought it was a 1.3, honest Mr" to the Police or insurance company should I come a cropper.

[lisbon_road]

I did this, got a friend who is the main mechanic at a car dealer to give me some headed paper, write out the change, said it had been inspected and confirmed, got him to sign it, and sent it off.  All well - they didn't send the letter back mind.

 

It was all true.  He never looked at the car, said he wasn't interested.  As from this and all above, you will get around it.

[Taff]

DVLA are pretty good at accepting of what is presented to them, probably why the motor trade got away with so much for so long.

 

here's another example. Someone on the forum imported a late '50's car from the States. While filling out his V55/5, he discovers (to his horror) that the car in front of him doesn't actually have a chassis number. The only number on the car is on a plate screwed to the body of the car, which is in turn screwed to the chassis.

 

Does he :-

A/ Write all this down and accept that he will be mired in DVLA/SVA/MSG/CAT Scans for ever and a day while ever more jobsworths from Swansea get involved and put their two pennorth-worth in?

 

B/ Borrow his mates number stamps and stamp that plate number into his chassis one weekend, then have a cup of tea while completing his paperwork?

[panhard65]

I imported my Juvaquatre which had a carte gris which I assume was for the van as it matched the plate that was losely fitted to the bulkhead. The carte gris only had a year of manufacture and the engine had been changed so was a larger capacity. 2 weeks later a V5 arrived no hassle and correct engine size colour etc as I had filled the forms rather than what was on the old carte gris. I wouldn't worry too much at the moment but the jobsworths in Brussels will be throwing a spanner in the works very shortly regarding modified classic cars. Another reason to get shot of the Juvaquatre sooner rather than later.

[purplebargeken]

Ok, engine number details filled in and form signed. Post tomorrow.

 

Will update.

 

Thanks

 

Ken

[Pillock]

The only time I've known them ask for evidence was changing the CC on a car with CC-based taxation classes (the below 1549cc, above 1550cc bandings), for a CC that led to lower tax cost. I had a mate with a 1600cc Beetle, he trashed the engine and he found a cheap 1200cc engine just to keep it running - DVLA asked for an engineers report, I presume to stop every man and their dog from halving their tax disc costs by writing a letter.

[New POD]

Okay, as a Chartered Engineer, with a Ltd Company, and headed note paper, I could do you an engineers report, which would State a) The engine number is ........and The cubic capacity is this...........cc and c) I can make no comment on the quality, reliability or safety or provenance of the installation.  

I wouldn't charge anything for the first one that I do.

 

In order to do this I'd need to see the car, and I'm not sure how to work out the CC without YOU taking the head off, (as it might have been bored and stroked at some point).....Given that I am about 220 miles away from you, I'm probably not your first choice, but if you get desperate, I'm available all next week if you pay my expenses.  

[New POD]

DVLA are pretty good at accepting of what is presented to them, probably why the motor trade got away with so much for so long.

 

here's another example. Someone on the forum imported a late '50's car from the States. While filling out his V55/5, he discovers (to his horror) that the car in front of him doesn't actually have a chassis number. The only number on the car is on a plate screwed to the body of the car, which is in turn screwed to the chassis.

 

Does he :-

A/ Write all this down and accept that he will be mired in DVLA/SVA/MSG/CAT Scans for ever and a day while ever more jobsworths from Swansea get involved and put their two pennorth-worth in?

 

B/ Borrow his mates number stamps and stamp that plate number into his chassis one weekend, then have a cup of tea while completing his paperwork?

In 1987 I bought an RD350LC off a bloke, who'd got it from a breakers, with no engine number, but with a receipt from the breakers stating that it had no engine number.  Before he receives the V5, he seizes the engine, and pays out for oversize pistons and rings, a rebore, a crank rebuild with new rods, a full bolt set, and new gaskets. The only things from the original engine is the casing, clutch, and gearbox. When the V5 came through, there was an engine number listed.

Do I borrow the number stamps from the tool room, and put the number back on or run it without the number, in the full knowledge that I have receipts showing where the the important bits of the engine came from?  

 

I wonder if the next owner ever spotted the wonky engine numbers.

[alf892]

Just fill in the forms..........if they want numbers give them numbers..........if they want an engineer's report give them one.

 

It is just paperwork to a government department.

 

Half the stuff they send you ain't true.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Okay, as a Chartered Engineer, with a Ltd Company, and headed note paper, I could do you an engineers report, which would State a) The engine number is ........and The cubic capacity is this...........cc and c) I can make no comment on the quality, reliability or safety or provenance of the installation.  

I wouldn't charge anything for the first one that I do.

 

In order to do this I'd need to see the car, and I'm not sure how to work out the CC without YOU taking the head off, (as it might have been bored and stroked at some point).....Given that I am about 220 miles away from you, I'm probably not your first choice, but if you get desperate, I'm available all next week if you pay my expenses.

 

LOL!!! I bet he's tempted by this awesome offer

[purplebargeken]

Oddly, not that tempted to be honest 

 

Ok, step one of the plan has been actioned. Engine number change has been completed and the V5 is on its way to Swansealand.

[New POD]

LOL!!! I bet he's tempted by this awesome offer

 

 

Actually, that would be the PROPER way to do it.

 

I suspect that we could work out the CC with the use of clean engine oil, pipettes and a measuring cylinder. Bring piston up to TDC, fill with oil. Take piston down to BDC, fill with a measured quantity of oil. Oil added is 1/4 CC of engine.  Remove oil with a bike pump. (Some will end up being burnt into the exhaust I suspect)

 

If DVLA start getting all stupid, I am happy to write a report for free, but I wouldn't do it, unless I know what I'm writing is true.

[Pillock]

I've got some letters after my name and I can do headed notepaper in Microsoft Publisher. I'll write you a letter if you send me a Twix. Naturally I'll need proof, so please send me a photo of an engine. Yours, if you can.

[mat_the_cat]

The only time I've known them ask for evidence was changing the CC on a car with CC-based taxation classes (the below 1549cc, above 1550cc bandings), for a CC that led to lower tax cost.

 

That would make sense, but I had to provide proof when I changed the 1769 cc engine in the BX for a 1905 cc unit. A copy of the V5 from the donor car, and a letter from a garage giving the engine number on the new one was good enough. That was back in 2008, so don't know whether things have relaxed since then. They reason they gave when questioned (as I pointed out it made no difference to taxation class) was that it may do in the future. No problems in 2004 with putting a V8 in the Stellar though!

 

I reckon that the only obligation you have is to *inform* them, whether they choose to accept that information shouldn't matter from a legal point of view.

[Taff]

In 1987 I bought an RD350LC off a bloke, who'd got it from a breakers, with no engine number, but with a receipt from the breakers stating that it had no engine number.  Before he receives the V5, he seizes the engine, and pays out for oversize pistons and rings, a rebore, a crank rebuild with new rods, a full bolt set, and new gaskets. The only things from the original engine is the casing, clutch, and gearbox. When the V5 came through, there was an engine number listed.

Do I borrow the number stamps from the tool room, and put the number back on or run it without the number, in the full knowledge that I have receipts showing where the the important bits of the engine came from?  

 

I wonder if the next owner ever spotted the wonky engine numbers.

 

I had a 1952 Cadillac that I imported, complete with seized engine. No chance of finding a replacement over here, and to rebuild it would have bankrupted me, so I slung in a chevy 400ci motor.

 

got round to doing the paperwork to register it and couldn't find and engine number on that 400 lump. But the number  18436572 was plainly visible on the inlet manifold, so I used that.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

When I registered my Argenta I had firgotten to write down the engine number. The DVLA office staff said 'oh, doesn't matter, we'll just leave it blank'. No worries

[Taff]

When I registered my Argenta I had firgotten to write down the engine number. The DVLA office staff said 'oh, doesn't matter, we'll just leave it blank'. No worries

 

Argenta, I had forgotten about those. I bumraped one for it's twink in the 1998

[New POD]

Well you have 2 issues here.

 

Convincing the DVLA what size the new engine is, won't be as difficult as convincing your insurance company that it's engineered in a safe manner. 

 

The DVLA have a points system for assessing whether the modifications would add up to needing an IVA, but as the modifications are to the subframe and not the bodyshell, you are only getting the engine change points, so you should be okay. I think. maybe

[derskine]

What year is the Toledo?

If it's historic tax class they won't ask for a report.

[Taff]

How would I go about declaring a 1uzfe engine into a 316 compact (yes it fits and I have the cad drawings and measurements already). We will be altering the front subframe mounts and propshaft yolk to gearbox ... but no major structural work would have to be done! This is supposed to be our 2015 shite garage build through the summer, if we get one. Stands for making a 270ish bhp auto 316 compact that weighs around 1.2 tons haha.

Maybe it would be a good idea to declare this one as I'm not sure it would pass as a 1.6 in this case!

 

newPod is right, DVLA is the easy bit there. Getting it insured would be my concern

 

To answer your question, I would approach it as I have described previously. Send it off for an engine number change first, get the numbers on the V5C to match those on the car. Then wait a while (sounds like this one is a keeper) then send the V5C off for a CC change.

[derskine]

Just remembered it's a '74.

If you wait till it becomes tax exempt to make the CC change, and change the tax class to historic you won't need to provide a report/fake report as there's no tax class change.

I've done this before, they sent the v5 back asking for a report, I sent it straight back with a note saying since the tax class is historic it isn't required (upon advice from others), new v5 turned up with new CC on it a couple of weeks later.

[explosive-cabbage]

I have swapped a XUD9 (1905cc) for the original XUD7 (1769cc) in my 205, like the Wobbler has done. Should I inform anybody? Or just keep it quiet? My main worries is insurance price increase...

Thanks in advance