Oh no, not another W124. Lord Sterling's Benz: Will he fix it or will he fix a Rover?

[colino]

Argy bargy about insurance offers for cars has been around for years, I used the adverts angle about 15 years ago when I was offered £4000 for a Porsche that was stolen and ended up with £8000 after a long and stressful fight.  Never accept the first offer (they are a business after all), but the advert example isn't the one followed anymore because, in its simplest, an advert is an asking price, not a selling one.  Have a look at the very good and clear info. from the ombudsman.

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/motor-valuation.html

​

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I think people like the styling of the W124 - and the 'unbreakable super high quality' image they seem to have. The absolutely love the W124 on Piston Heads - the car has a real following there to the point that pretty much all other old motors are dismissed. It may be worth pointing the insurers to the thread to demonstrate the W124's status as a sought after classic, rather than as just another old car.

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1467947&i=8580&mid=0&nmt=Best+smoker+barges+1%2D5+large+%5Bvol8%5D

 

I quite like the W124, but not enough to buy one - so I feel much the same about them as LS feels about the W210.

Fundamentally I would rather have a Jag; I know their issues and I think they are a much nicer car. I'm not convinced a later XJ40 or X300 is any more troublesome than the W124 - whatever the PHers may believe.

 

 

My neighbour has a W210 which he has had since new. Driving it certainly does not have the sense of occasion you feel in a W140.  It is a low mileage car but it has suffered the usual w210 rust. Other than that though it has been fully reliable - he has had no trouble with it at all and (now its rust issues have been sorted) is a nice looking car. So maybe their reliability issues are exaggerated? - His has certainly been good. That said, my brother had a W220 S500 and it was an utter dog of a car. Just about everything which could go wrong did go wrong. The car put him off Mercs for life!

 

 

Good luck with it Lord Sterling, whatever you decide to do.

[Pete-M]

W140 S-class which I'm aware could be a money pit.

Not many cars scare me, but a W140 does. Genuinely. Those things are astronomically expensive to keep right, off the scale financial haemorrhage territory, up there with the R230 SL on the liability scale.

 

To give a couple of examples, chap I know has a 230 SL500. In one year it cost £3000 just to keep it tip top. Two front struts @ £1k each, two batteries @ £150 each (they have two, one for the engine, one for the roof and toys), electric mirror switch @ £300 (secondhand).

 

One tiny 4cm x 1.5 cm switch blank is over £100 from M-B!

 

Magnificent car, but next year it'll need two rear struts @ £2k and then it's just a case of waiting for the sensotronic brakes to run out of applications - that'll be another £1k.

 

The W140 will cost at least as much to keep right. £100k new = bills for £100k car.

[Jerzy Woking]

I had an assessor come to my house to inspect my (obviously) written off 1985 GSX-R750 motorbike, killed when a gypsy (a proper Romany one, not an imitation one, and fully insured) U-turned his truck in front of me.

 

Bike had very high mileage, but I had had it for eight years and the majority of the miles were mine, and was immaculate. Offer in the post was £2500 which, back in 2003 was well over private money, and on par with some of the premium dealers prices. Nil depreciation after 8 years too (in fact, £250 more than I paid).

 

I di go out and buy another identical model soon after, but so disappointed with it I sold it after doing just 80 miles on it. So if get another W124, be prepared to be disappointed, or really pleased, as it won't be the same as the one you obviously bonded with.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

To echo Pete-M's comments on the W140 - my brother had one in the late 1990s - it was an impressive car and driving it lent you a strange feeling of importance, but it was vastly expensive to run. Things went wrong on it  wit some regularity and never cost less than £1k to put right. He saw bills of three times that. It had developed strange multifaceted electrical faults which with hindsight was probably loom related (even though I think the car was supposedly to new for 'loom problems') - and he traded it in fearing a truly enormous bill. Of course, they were rare in scrap yards then. I don't know if this has changed.

[forddeliveryboy]

210s - great if not rotten and you've a long motorway trip to make, especially if it's across Europe. And perfect as a car to run then chuck when it starts to fail with huge bills. I think the MB boss boasted on their launch (having struggled to make a profit on 124s) that they were a third cheaper to make, despite it being a much better car. It's fair to say the reputation it grew was of unreliability and corrosion which helped Mercedes' fall from grace as the quality German car maker.

 

124s were over-nerdy/detail-obsessed in parts but the use of high quality materials and an overall simplicity usually meant the result was a charming and very reliable old machine. Fast forward a decade and the same obsessive-ness became a liability as costs were slashed and the number of parts grew. 210 diesels are great when running but the myriad of fuel delivery pipes have a cack-handed sealing system which fails every few years. Combine that with glow plugs which have a habit of seizing in the head and unless you're a mechanic with all the right tools, it becomes an annoying noose round the neck. Add Lucas fuel pumps with failing seals and rusting roofs for extra reputation points.

 

But, 124s steadily declined in quality (rapidly so in the last two or three years) whereas 210s didn't. Some of the prices for perfect* estate versions are silly, but that's what happens when a car becomes perceived as something special - see the crazy scene tax on old Fords. It's ironic that most of the really expensive cars are later models with iffy paint, poorer steel quality and a host of other cost-saving measures.

 

Choose carefully, buy a £2k 210 in top order and be amazed at the relative value. But be aware that the modern-era Mercedes can fail in extraordinarily wallet-devouring ways in a way the older generation generally didn't.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

With W124's the 1987-90 cars were best. Early ones had electrical niggles but the black top engines and auto boxes were so strong. Later ones from 1991/2 (facelift) were more rust prone and also had stupid issues such as the engine wiring loom suffering breakages. But the earlier ones really were a great car.

I had a W203 C Class recently - nice car (it was 2003 so not rusty) but the M271 engine is a piece of junk. Trouble is, they replaced the ultra reliable M111 engine with the M271 just as the rust issues were sorted. You just can't win.

 

W140 - they're cheap enough now not to worry about big bills. They're not worth a sank now so just buy for £650, run it till it breaks on a 10'000 mile PA/No maintenance basis and frag it when it dies. I bet they break quite well. Same with any worthless old shitter really.

 

W210 - again, worth fuck all which makes them very compelling. Even a 200 auto is okay, a very comfortable place to be.

[Pete-M]

Problem with 99% of £650 W140s is they're being sold because they've already got the problems which cause the big bills.

 

You MIGHT find a half decent one, ie still working, but I doubt there's a £650 W140 on the planet that'll manage 10k miles without going seriously wrong.

 

A £650 X300 would quite probably manage it without major issues, but a W140? No chance.

[richardmorris]

I'm sure that there are better cars for the money than a w124, but they are relaxing to drive and look dignified. Bmws etc also lack a gunsight! I've done 25000miles in mine in the last three years and it's been cheaper to run than my Citroen c5!

 

Look at 2cvs- £500 used to buy one with an mot and a fighting chance of another. Now that's £2000 territory and you can buy far more car than a 2cv for that price. Now that they're in charming old car territory ( if not classic) the prices are silly.

[Bear]

I want a C140, badly. In my experience the big bills for more complex Mercedes aren't for parts, but diagnosis and handing to specialists/dealers. I expect a big bill for a differential or gearbox rebuild, but for the trouble that most 140s and the like suffer tends to be sensors, wiring, and lack of experience or patience sorting them.

 

Like my W210 - 114K miles, on the run back up from Surrey it started to flare between 2-3 changes. Worrying. But I got home, read codes (nowt), checked loom at 'box, popped open the ECU, and bingo - ECU full of oil. So, I will be replacing the pin bushing and seals, and also making sure the gearbox is at the correct level as I think it had dropped slightly too low.

 

I see a lot of Mercedes being sold in "limp (home)" mode - the 722.6 gearbox REALLY dislikes incorrect fluid levels. The A-class here won't go over 30 - but the gearbox is fine, the issue is an ABS reluctor ring rusting and falling off. The only reason I haven't sorted it is that unlike most Mercedes I've worked on, the A-class's front suspension is McPherson strut and rusted badly. I stepped back from an R129 earlier in the month because although it looked damn good in most parts, the rear subframe looked like it'd been dragged up from the Titanic.

[Bear]

Also, I don't think 124s are really any better than 210s in quite a few regards. Old 124s did rust, do rust, from the inside out - subframes, inner rails on the engine bay, tailgates, rear 1/4s - my '89 was starting to rust the boot floor out around the edges at 7 years old, but because it was a Mercedes it was attended to right away.

 

In the 1980s and early 1990s, reps still drove Cavaliers and Mondeos, and Mercedes was a premium brand for wealthier owners to opt for and cherish. By the late '90s and early 2000s, heavy discounting, low finance rates and aggressive fleet sales made premium cars the baseline, mass production in overdrive. Now look at the state of W211s - they're not cherished at all. 210s are priced like Sierras and Cortinas where, because they're as plentiful, and as many knackered ones to cherished ones exist - some Fords made it intact, so do some Mercedes.

 

My 210's rear subframe bushes rattle. So did the last 124 I looked at.

 

Aesthetically, though, 210s are fucking ugly. Unlike Mauer's quite restrained, if cartoony designs for the SLK, A, V and so forth, Mattin's designs for the CLK, SL and E-class are just... I don't even know where that weird, distorted back end on the S210 came from.

[Lord Sterling]

Assessor has been booked for Tuesday after they tried to contact me in every way possible like a jilted girlfriend, I even found a posted letter from them this morning asking me to contact them.

 

Car rental people have gone quiet, I think they got the message, I don't want a bloody A-class I'm happy with the Insignia.

 

I'm going to use the Merc to move my bed to chez_Mo as I really need to move, the Insignias boot is honestly too small, I know in one of my photos it looks like you could put the Merc in the boot but thats because of the position I had taken the photo. I will take a pic of both boots side by side and show you how they compare.

[hauserplenty]

Dude. That sucks. Losing such a great car like that would bum me out. I hope you can get enough fundage out of 'em to replace it with a similar one.

I'm a big fan of the 124 estates myself, so much so that I just might happen to know of someone who is looking for parts.

 

 

That is, if you wind up parting it out.

 

 

Since I've nothing nice to say, I've nothing further to add.

 

 

Except that I'm SO glad we don't have the Daily Mail in this country. We'd be in a RIGHT BLOODY MESS if we did...#eweluckyjammybarstewards

[Junkman]

There are great* cars* obtainable at Cannock, should the need for blowage of an insurance payout come forth.

Some qualified* purchasing advice* would be available entirely free of charge, also monster burgers, the latter not entirely free of charge, though.

You know what a true hero would do. I hence suggest resuscitation of a loosely related thread.

[Noel Tidybeard]

There are great* cars* obtainable at Cannock, should the need for blowage of an insurance payout come forth.

Some qualified* purchasing advice* would be available entirely free of charge, also monster burgers, the latter not entirely free of charge, though.

You know what a true hero would do. I hence suggest resuscitation of a loosely related thread.

this reply is in great danger of being worthy of the bullshit thread

[Lord Sterling]

Well, the latest I this saga...

 

Third party insurer contacted me today whilst I was moving my bed, they have received the assossors report and have offerd me £900, if I take the offer, they will take the Merc away which I wasn't aware of. If I want to keep the car it'll cost me £54. I told them I wasn't happy with the offer to which they said they would not increase the offer and nor would they look to replace the car. If I was not happy with the offer then I would have to get in contact with my own insurers which will cost me my £250 excess.

 

I told them to give me some time because quite frankly I seem to be pushed into a corner caused my an incident that wasn't my fault.

 

Ma has said she can lend me the £250 excess. Is there any point?

[richardmorris]

As far as I know you are entitled to be put back in the same situation you were in before the accident. Ie in a Mercedes estate. Tell them to find one for £900. Or go through your own insurers - YOU don't pay the excess up front. It comes out of what they offer.

[colino]

There isn't any point while you could get your car, banged up as it is, plus £850 at the moment.  Even if you chose not to repair yourself, it will sell as is or break, for a whole lot more than £54.  Leave it a couple of days, see if they up the offer to clear their books and settle and move on.

[richardmorris]

Here is the problem; I have no time or space to be breaking it plus the insurers will not up the offer, either I take the £900 (or £850 and keep the Merc) or they withdraw thier offer and I'll have to go through my insurers.

Have you actually informed your insurers that you have had an accident but am not involving them at the present time? What value did you put on the merc on your own insurance?

 

Edit, if it's a non fault claim is your excess still payable? Also do you have legal expenses cover to help with getting the excess back?

[cort16]

If you buy it for 50 and stick on eBay for 250 bin you'll have 1100 quid in total.

It does seem like a pisser that you're being forced to take a low ball offer even though it's not your fault .

[Lord Sterling]

As far as I know you are entitled to be put back in the same situation you were in before the accident. Ie in a Mercedes estate. Tell them to find one for £900. Or go through your own insurers - YOU don't pay the excess up front. It comes out of what they offer.

That's what I thought, but obviously not, they don't care about my entitlement, what they are doing now is trying to push me off thier books with a crap offer. They have refused to find me one due to the age of the car or summat.

 

Have you actually informed your insurers that you have had an accident but am not involving them at the present time? What value did you put on the merc on your own insurance?

Edit, if it's a non fault claim is your excess still payable? Also do you have legal expenses cover to help with getting the excess back?

My insurers are aware of the accident and informed me that if I was to put in a claim, I would have to, pay my £250 excess which I can reclaim. I do have legal expenses as far as I know.

[richardmorris]

You don't have to accept though. I bet the rental is more than their offer so far. I'd have always gone through my own insurers to be honest, but as it is I think they're probably under valuing it by half. Phone them again tomorrow and make a nuisance of yourself providing them a dozen or so examples of valuations,

[richardmorris]

My insurers are aware of the accident and informed me that if I was to put in a claim, I would have to, pay my £250 excess which I can reclaim. I do have legal expenses as far as I know.

Yes, but you still don't pay upfront surely. It comes out of their payout which the legal expenses then get back for you in a month or so. At least that's how it worked for me 15 years ago.

[Lord Sterling]

You don't have to accept though. I bet the rental is more than their offer so far. I'd have always gone through my own insurers to be honest, but as it is I think they're probably under valuing it by half. Phone them again tomorrow and make a nuisance of yourself providing them a dozen or so examples of valuations,

They are due to phone me tomorrow to find out whether I will accept thier low-ball offer. Seemingly they don't care for other valuations, seemingly the "independant" assessors valuation is gospel and will offer no more unless I go through my own insurers.

 

Yes, but you still don't pay upfront surely. It comes out of their payout which the legal expenses then get back for you in a month or so. At least that's how it worked for me 15 years ago.

Insurers have changed the way they work so much it is now unrecognisable.

[richardmorris]

My old boss thought we would be better off without insurance over a lifetime- pay the equivalent into a savings account and then on average you'd be able to buy your way out of any problems over forty years. This is from someone who wrote off two of his cars within an hour though!

 

Also the problem here is that you're not their customer. You're just an annoyance to them. Personally I'd ignore them and instruct your own insurers. But I understand it may have immediate financial implications.

[richardmorris]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/items/?_nkw=W124&_sacat=9800&_ex_kw=&_mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&_fpos=&_fspt=1&_sadis=&LH_CAds=&clk_rvr_id=880264919242&rmvSB=true&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-53481-19255-0%252F1%253Ficep_ff3%253D9%2526pub%253D5575112405%2526toolid%253D10001%2526campid%253D5337634544%2526customid%253D%2526icep_uq%253DW124%2526icep_sellerId%253D%2526icep_ex_kw%253D%2526icep_sortBy%253D12%2526icep_catId%253D9800%2526icep_minPrice%253D%2526icep_maxPrice%253D%2526ipn%253Dpsmain%2526icep_vectorid%253D229508%2526kwid%253D%2526srcrot%253D710-53481-19255-0%2526rvr_id%253D880264919242

[Lord Sterling]

Some small insignificant news;

 

On Thursday last week, the third parties insurers contacted mamking me a final offer on my Merc, this was £900 as a total loss meaning they would have taken the car away.

 

I contacted my insurers to seek advice, they told that they would only recover what they thought the vehicle was worth, as per third-party insurer they would send out an assessor and report back to my insurers. I've a feeling that the £900 ceiling ain't gonna be passed.

 

The £250 excess was not to be paid to them directly from me, they would recover that from the third party insurers. This wasnt made very clear when I first reported the accident.

 

When I rejected the offer from the third party insurers they got quite arsey with me stating they wanted the courtesy car back by a specific time which interrupts my working day tomorrow (got something on tomorrow) otherwise I'd be liable to pay the next 24 hours. It was also made very clear that my claim was basically in the way as they wanted to close it one way or another.

 

I was told that they would dispute everything from what they will pay out to any rental agreement my insurers try to claim from them.

 

I am aware that the arsey attitude is a practice adopted (unofficially) by many insurance companies when customers reject thier offers. I worked very briefly at an insurance company last year upon arriving back in the UK, I noticed a girl who worked on the same desk as me had the same job as the chap I dealt with today (but to with homes, not cars) and I noticed she got arsey with people who rejected the offers made.

 

One thing that does confuse me, my insurance is up on Thursday this week, but my insurers told me that even that being the case, the car will still be insured under a third-party cover whilst the claim is going through, if this is the case, it might help me out a bit as I'm off to fetch it tomorrow after I drop the courtesy off.

 

Sigh...

[Pete-M]

Insurance is to replace what has been damaged, but it doesn't include "betterment", so they can't replace your car with one that was better than yours before the collision.

 

If you aren't happy with their offer tell them to replace your vehicle with another one if they say they can replace it for £900. Explain that you're not playing hardball with them, but that you can't find one for the money they're offering. As the accident wasn't your fault you don't see why you should end up in a worse situation than before it.

 

They'll hate you for it. Don't push too hard or they'll just offer £900 and that'll be it.

[Junkman]

I'd take that 0.9 bags and run before the alarm goes off.

[Lord Sterling]

Cheers Pete. Wasn't really looking to better my car as such, just more so I'm aware that S124s aren't exactly cheap and plentiful. This is also why the Insurance companies want to wash thier hands of people with older, hard to value cars. Offer them a £value according to the "Glass's guide" and let them get on with it.

 

I was told that the value of a car comes from these guides rather than what the popular value is. They won't offer you what the car is worth on sale/forecourt but what it's worth as a standing object.

 

The worst that can come out of this is my insurers agree that my car is worth no more than £900 as a total loss, let them take the hulk away, chuck the money at me and let me get on with buying something around £500/£700.