Pre 68 cars to be raced this Sunday Hednesford

[wuvvum]

You're right, a lot of those did look beyond economical repair even before the race started - the Zephyr and the Corsair especially. The Westy looked like it might have been a fairly solid car though. I don't have any great affection for Farinas so I'm not going to burst into tears, but half-decent Westies have got to be getting thin on the ground now?

[Jason A]

Oh dear 'Des', retarded chav pikey Banger Racer types! I suppose I fell into that bracket for many years, though I'm neither a retard, a pikey, or come to mention it a chav. I dare say in fact I have thrice the qualifications you'll ever have.In answer to Monza's question (cheers for the pics by the way) I'm pretty sure Hednesford is the only track that runs the annual Pre 68 meeting now, the other tracks have gone to Pre 70 or Pre 75 depending on where you go. Mildenhall's annual bash in June is a truly epic evening and one of the very few reasons I'm tempted back to Blighty these days.Regards,Jason (ex Banger driver-never a thief!/classic car lover/shite owner)

[outlaw118]

I too am an ex-banger racer (thats where my name comes from, nothing to do with BT and moustaches!), and take exception to the suggestion that I'm a pikey or a chav etc etc, but I'm not going to dwell on that.Myself and bro' competed reguarly at the Arena and at Mildenhall and trashed a fair few cars, some of which, looking back at it makes me think "why?".At the time, they were scrappers, mot failures, stuff that was cluttering up peoples lives and driveways, and of no interest to anyone. We were renting an expensive lock-up at the time, and I decided to advertise locally and with specialist clubs the bits that I removed from the cars while I prepped them, in order to partially offset our costs.I got NO calls whatsoever.We sold a whole car to (infamous Mk3 'tina guru) Steve Taylor, and flogged a couple of sets of capri 4-spokes to local kids to put on their fiestas, but that was it. I was disappointed, but somehow it made me think "fuck 'em" even more.There was and still is apparently a lot of snobbery about oval racing, I'm not saying everyone is whiter than white, thats not realistic, but it's cheap and a laugh which is why we did it. There are people who will spend literally £1000's on engines, (which I found pointless), and take it all way too seriously, but we went out, had a crash, the odd bout of fisticuffs ( I was young and foolish) but we all shook hands at the end, and the crowd always enjoyed it - no-one goes to a banger meeting to watch people RACE, you get a thrill out of the danger, and the prospect of seeing something spectacular happen.We killed numerous mk3,4,5 'tinas, a few capris, a Transit, Mk1& 2 Grannys, Mk 1 BMW316, Mazda Montrose, Renault 18, Triump Allcaim, Rover 216, Fiat Strada, I could go on. But like Cavette (i think) said, where do you draw the line?I don't go to pre-68/70 meetings, I like cars too much, but who's to say our kids/grandchildren won't be having this same discussion in 30 years time about the pre 1998 meeting with all those lovely Vectras and Focuses being trashed??

[bigstraight6]

Well said outlaw118, I used to be a regular spectator at the long gone Newton Abbot track about 20/21 years ago, and witnessed Triumph 2000's, 2500's, even the odd 'PI', A60's, Westminsters, Ford Granadas trashed, and now I look back and wince

[andrew e]

Good luck to the racer in all honestly - they put their money where there mouths are.

[mk2_craig]

Regarding the comment about no injected cars on the track - why so? Isn't that rule eventually going to kill the sport?

[Albert Ross]

I'm under the impression it's to do with pressurised fuel. Most carbed motors make do with a gravity feed from the rear shelf motorcycle tank arrangement. You get all that unleaded pessured up in a crash and there's more risk of fire than there is currently.That's what I'm led to believe anyway.......If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

[outlaw118]

You can use fuel injection, single point only at some tracks now I believe, but not sure which ones - it's not tough to convert most cars to carbs anyway. I believe was always to do with fire risks.

[simmo]

Just a couple of points from another racer, the vast majority of racing does not involve classis but obviously they attract the most 'interest'.Most cars raced are of the unwanted/unloved modern variety so anyone with a bit of forsight should be stockpiling Carina and Primeras before we get the blame for killing those off. Cars that aren't popular for racing don't appear to have any better survival rate, for example Mark 4 Zodiacs, hardly any been raced. Of the 250 plus cars I have raced if they hadn't of made it to the track most would of gone to scrap people, generally don't keep cars 20 years until they are deamed a classic. 2 or 3 I would say were a waste but at the time of no monetary value.Cars aren't design to last forever and would we still want to be driving round in Model Ts?

[simmo]

First post here, I also hate the thought of those retarded chav / pikey banger racer types destroying old cars just for the sake of attention seeking, and what makes it extra sad is just how mind numbingly boring banger racing is, such old cars will never and can never be made again, when they're gone they're gone, modern stuff just can't achieve the same character and charm.Possibly what makes older cars a more attractive victim is the way many pre tax cars without T&T are worth much more in bits than complete, i.e. 3 litre Farina needing sills or floors, you'd be lucky to get a fiver more than it's weighing in value, flog bumpers, engine, and any other rare parts like glass washer bottle/ girling servo, and a purile jaunt around a track turns a profit, while us decent people who would like to save these cars are stuffed from lack of space to keep them.

What a pathetic first post! Insulting and Childish you bring nothing to the debate. Must try harder!

[Guest]

Regarding banger racing, I think we've done the basics to death and on the whole I don't have much of a problem with it, it doesn't really concern me if they were only really heading into the crusher anyway - doesn't really matter what happens. Let's get that out of the way now, as it won't get us anywhere.But there was one banger racing thing I didn't like the sound of and would like to bring it up, mostly just to clarify whether it is true. I have heard of "classic" banger meets (not sure whether it would be this pre-68 meet or not) where there have been prizes on offer for the racers under a few categories, mostly pretty innocent things like best paintjob. However, I have heard of there being worthwhile prizes for "most rare/unusual car" or something of that ilk. I appreciate that the above is all third-hand information and is possibly skewed, I'm just interested to know whether anyone has heard anything similar happening at events? There has been a few eBay auctions for reasonably rare stuff where they have threatened to banger race it (or have withdrawn it for that reason) with reference to the above situation and I'm wondering whether it is valid, or just a few idiots within the scene wanting to stir things up. If the prize is just a Lion Bar or something I can't see people making that much effort, but if there are these prizes and they're worth making the effort for, it could be a big incentive for people to search out a rarity, which in my eyes doesn't bode well. I always thought banger racing was more about racing what was available or known to be strong, rather than making an effort to hunt out obscurities for money/prizes/kudos.If this is the case, I reckon tackling that issue alone would have more impact on saving rare classics, rather than people getting on their soapbox and applying sweeping statements about bangers in general. Would like to know what you current and ex banger racers reckon.

[monzaE]

One extreme to the other. I would have thought it was too valuable, broken for parts? Found on Flickr

[AnthonyG]

One extreme to the other. I would have thought it was too valuable, broken for parts? Found on Flickr

Wouldn't be surprised if all that panel damage was done before the race, condeming the car to the oval.

 

In contrast to the classic/rare banger racers, I think there is recognition for the 'first' of a car being raced - looks like the above fellow may have christened the Picasso!

 

As for saving trim - the amount of old bits that get skipped every day by the trade and private people is far greater than anything wrecked by racers - I tipped about 10 secondhand grilles recently as I couldn't store them anymore and no one wanted them - included a Viva HB and two MK2 Cortina ones. Similarly I know of a 1972 Volvo 144 interior that will go up in smoke soon (5th Nov ) since constant efforts to give it away have got nowhere.

[155V6]

If I remember correctly,I think that Xsara was an insurance write-off,sure it had been rolled or something

[Jason A]

In reply to Hirst, I have been to meetings where awards have been given out to rarest cars yes. There is a magazine I subscibe to called ´Wasted´and most issues carry a Star Car feature, which gives the whole story behind a drivers acquisition, and its subsequent end. I would be happy to type out a whole article, as often it´s a real eye opener the trouble these boys go to just to race that something special. If you´re interested let me know, as I won´t sit here for ages typing it out if nobody´s bothered.Cheers.

[Guest]

If it's not a great deal of trouble, I'd be very interested, cheers!

[garycox]

Couldn't you scan it? Would be great, but does sound like a lot of effort, hope you're quicker at typing than me!

[garycox]

Some interesting pics on this site:http://www.atozofbangerracing.co.uk/

[outlaw118]

To be honest the "most unusual" thing does go on, and I'm not completely in favour of it, for the obvious reasons.The prize is normally £50 to £100, and to be fair, theres normally some gross yank-tank that wins these days. Rollers have been done now, has have FX4 cabs (apparently the Cologne V6 goes in without too much bother).I do remember the first Civil War meeting in 1999 at Hednesford, someone raced a Lynx Eventer (XJS estate to the uninitiated), and I had to be physically restrained from slapping the bloke. As it happens, he may as well tied a target to his arse, it didn't last long!!

[mk2_craig]

I suppose if you "thin out their numbers" then that just makes the surviving examples all the more rare/valuable/sought-after. Though if you follow that to its logical conclusion some rich git with a barn full of mk1 Escorts will start bangering his scruffier examples. However, I wouldn't like to see a situation where something properly significant gets destroyed for the purpose of inflating someone's ego. Depends what it is of course; I wouldn't personally care if the last MGB on earth was smashed to bits on an oval circuit but I might get rather more upset if the only remaining roadworthy RHD Tagora was to meet its end that way.More fundamentally, am I right in saying that the older cars are favoured for their lack of crumple zones and less fragile suspension set-up?

[Albert Ross]

I've seen the Farina Austins etc beefed up with longitudinal scaffold tubes under the sills and either side of the tranny tunnel too. I also used to help a bloke out who bangered the early 70s Audi Coupes............painted pink and brown....mid eighties, who cared? I even saw road legal shuvvits driven there, glass kicked out, acrow prop fitted behind drivers seat, and taken to third place. Then Bus Fare Home!

[Jason A]

I could scan it I suppose, but here goes anyway. Copied word for word by an article for 'Wasted' magazine issue 58 and written by Michael Coventry.Classic car meetings are always a great source of material for a Star Car feature and we were spoilt for choice at the Mildenhall pre 70 meeting at the end of May. Whilst the debate on what truly was car of the meeting continues there was no denying the two pre war cars attracted most of the attention and we discover more about them here.Over the years the annual classic car meeting at Mildenhall has attracted some amazing machines and more than a few have graced the pages of Wasted underneath the spotlight of a Star car feature.However there ws no denying that the entry for this year's event was particularly special in terms of the quality of material on display in the pits with more than a few being worthy enough to warrant a Star Car feature.For many the most sought after prize at any classic car meeting is the accolade of car of the meeting and there were numerous cars at the Mildenhall event which in previous years would have scooped the award. At the original events the Mk2 Consul/Zodiac/Zephyrs of 209 Kev Waller were the top motors and this year there were three of them which almost faded into the background against the top cars on display.Even the Wedge limo, Phase II Vanguard, Sunbeam Talbot 90, Zephyr hearse and Zodiac limo were topped in the race for car of the meeting.But what exactly was car of the meeting then? Well it could be argued that the PC Cresta estate of Incarace young gun 362 Matt Godden was the rarest on display as it is widely believed that only handful were ever built and it was the first to be raced in possibly 20 years.However for many the cars which immediately grabbed the attention of most were the pair of stunning pre war motors from RDC's 85 James Ellis and long distance traveller and Mob chief Mt Grumpy 152 James Dillon with their stunning Standard 10 and Austin 12 Ascot which dated back to 1933 and 1935 respectively and considering their ages it is probably little surprise that each car had an interesting story behind them.Starting with James Ellis and the Standard 10, James explained that the car was discovered on the popular e-Bay website earlier in the year by friend Dodgy (Dave Hodges) and their bid of £350 was enough to get the car although they had to travel all the way to Wigan, a 400 mile round trip, to collect it.James said: Dodgy and my dad (Pete) are always on e-Bay looking for stuff and I guess we just got lucky with the Standard because I thought someone would have paid more money for a car like that."The car really belonged to my dad, he bought it because he wanted to see me race it so it was a joint project between the two of us mainly and we did a lot of work ourselves. Even one of my biggest helpers, Sean Dyer, was reluctant to touch it.""He was convinced I shouldn't race it because of how small and rotten it was and he insisted that me and and dad do it so we knew it was competely safe. I think the truth was he was just being lazy and wanted to spend more time on his own cars instead!"James said the car was previously owned by two gentlemen who had been restoring it but had lost interest in the project resulting in them putting the car up for sale.James added: "When we went to pick the car up the two guys were really interested in what we planned to do with the car and because we weren't sure how they would react we told them we were going to turn it into a historic stockcar, not a Banger, so it was only a little white lie."The thing was they were really impressed when we told them our plans, so much so they wanted me to send pictures of the car when it was finished. I haven't done that yet but I will do soon. I dread to think what they will say!"James explained that the restoration project meant the actual bodywork of the car was in pretty good condition which is more than could be said of the floor which had completely rotted way.He added: "Most of the car was made from wood and the majority of the floor had disappeared over the years so we knew we had plenty of work ahead of us, not only to make the car raceable but to ensure it was safe for me, because obviously I didn't want to get hurt."We decided to build a small four poster style roll cage which went just around myself. It was very similar to the cage I use when I race Relaint Robins."The intention was never to strengthen the car itself, but to give me a bit more protection and to that end it worked well because I was able to have a good night and everything finished fine."The other big problem we faced at the start was the engine. The car came with the original engine and I really wanted to get it running because we had originally hoped to race the car at the Hednesford pre 68 later in the year."However we soon realised we were never going to get the engine going and needed a transplant so we fitted a 1300cc Crossflow engine and because of that we decided to race the car at Mildenhall instead because engine swaps are allowed at that meeting."

[Jason A]

Article to be continued, sorry, I am indeed a crap typer and it took me ages!Jason

[Des]

May I offer my most profound apologies to those I have offended, I really didn't know there were banger racer types on this forum. If I have any defence then it is that I 'says it as I sees it'. We all judge people based on what we see, and my judgement tells me that a banger boy is a person I want nothing to do with, in the same way as I will avoid the old git who blew his redundancy on a caravan, or the owner of a 'B' weighed down at the front with a bar dripping in badges, sorry, they just manage to piss me off by their existence, and to me there few people who can match the mind numbingly boring saddo that finds the need to destroy older characterful cars just to make their miserable ''I'm mad me'' statement. So these are my beliefs, and I feel compelled to remark that if you don't like it then tough shit fucko, but I must bow to the superior insight that has allowed someone who, has never, nor will ever, meet me, somehow gain knowledge of my level of qualification, (nope, I'm not going to bite) I'm impressed and promise I will cease looking at banger boys as sub human very boring oxygen thiefs and view them as my equals and hope to emerge a better person for this.

[vicsmith]

Please do continue with the article, it is absolutely fascinating, like others on here I can see no problem whatsoever with banger racing in general, and I `m sure a lot of `70s stuff that gets raced is the kind of thing a lot of us on here would give a very wide berth due to being too far gone to ever be road legal, and if the odd solid Mk2 Cortina does slip through the net, well it`s perhaps fair to say that us dewy-eyed preservationists should have acted quicker on that one. Add to that the fact that a lot of buyers are simply a source of headaches and inept questions for sellers, and you can see how it happens. Deliberately searching out a genuine rarity is something else entirely, though - these guys even seem to acknowledge that the car has a story and take a real interest in it and put loads of work into it - I can obviously understand wanting to track such car down, I have great trouble understanding why they would then want to destroy it in minutes after so much hard work and expense finding it and getting it ready!Perhaps an answer will be within this article, at any rate I will be waiting for the next segment with just as much anticipation as I used to await the next episode of Neighbours during it`s 1988 golden age, when Clive Gibbons the zany doctor who occasionally caused serious car accidents was still a major player.

[scrappylad]

Whilst I've already aired my views of banger racing - esp regards the classics - reference the excellent article from Wasted Magazine, Mr Grumpy 152 is fairly local to me & is often seen to sell classics on ebay. I must add he is NOT the type to put "if it doesn't get enough money it'll be bangered" in his listings! I think I've met him before at his yard & IF its the same guy, he was as sound as a pound. If its not the same guy then there's another racer in the same area who is a genuinely nice chap.I was needing parts for my old 16/60 & was free to have a look around to see if there was anything that I needed from his stock. As it happens he had an a60 - rotten as a pear & a more solid Oxford at that time, about 8 years ago now. Anyway I needed doors & all of them were worse than mine & now my car is sadly history anyway so thats the end of that.

[garycox]

PC Cresta Estate?!

[Jason A]

continued article...For James, his dad and the others who helped with the car this meant they had to work even harder to get the car ready in time as they didn't pick it up until mid April, about six weeks before the meeting. But Ellis was always confident the car would be ready in time. He added: "So far we've never been beaten by a car and we've always been ready to race but it's been hard at times in the past, with days off work and working through the night sometimes."However we didn't have to with this one, in fact it was one of the easiest cars I've ever built. I've always said the older cars are the easiest ones but that really was the case with the Standard which was quite surprising and because we'd allowed ourselves as much time as possible we wound up finishing the car with loads of time to spare which was a bit unusual for us!"They made a great start to the project, fitting the transplant engine and most of the rollcage in the first day of construction which boded well for the rest of the project. James added that the rollcage was welded to the chassis, which he said was in decent condition and then they made a floor from tin plate to replace what had eroded over the years. However that also caused a small problem.James said: "Originally we put the floor in too high and so there was nowhere for my feet to go! In the end we had to cut a hole down by the pedals so I could fit myself in, fortunately it wasn't that big of a problem to get around."The final job was the painting with Shaun doing the blue and yellow paint scheme before another friend Chris completed a stellar job on the signwritng front and the next stop was Mildenhall for the meeting.RDC had adopted an old fashioned approach to the promotion of the meeting and had only revealed the names and numbers of the drivers who had booked in and not the cars which they were racing so for the majority of people the Standard was a great surprise to those on the day.James said: "I was a bit shocked that more people didn't find out about the car because dad had told plenty of people but they obviously kept the trust and it stayed pretty much a secret until the day before the meeting when a picture went on the internet but it was too late by then to ruin the surprise. "I couldn't believe the response in the pits, it was crazy, just overwhelming and if I'm honest at times it did get a bit too much. I would love to know how many photos were taken of the car during the meeting because it just seemed to be non-stop with people coming over and looking at it. "The whole experience was unreal and I couldn't believe how many other epic motors there were so the whole buzz was just tremendous, really amazing and nothing like I have ever experienced before."Before the meeting James felt the car would probably only last a lap but in truth it proved a whole lot more durable than he could have ever hoped for and while the car surpassed his greatest expectations, on track the night didn't really go to plan. He explained: "It's no secret that me and Sparky (67 Mark Whittaker) are having a war between ourselves and I knew what was coming when he was in the same heat as me. He's a great driver but I wasn't sure how well the car would stand up to a big hit so when we were palying up at the start of the heat I knew I had to get him first and that was just how it went down. "But I figured I would hit him and that would wreck the car, I couldn't believe it kept going and after we finished I got to play with a few others. The one lap I did was probably the best lap I've ever done. Shame it was the wrong way but it was still awesome. "We managed to fix the car for the DD where the intention was to wait until the event settled down and then come out and try and have one final hit with either the DD winner or maybe Grumpy if it was possible as we figured that would be a nice way to end it. "But I think Grumpy was a bit too enthusiastic and instead we ended up trading hits on the middle We tried to stay out of everyone else's way and just have a bit of fun and wreck the cars which I think we managed and although it wasn't ideal I think most people enjoyed it. "I reall ached afterwards though, I had no problem with Grumpy's first hit, I just wished I'd seen it coming because then I could have braced myself", he joked.In closing James passed on his thanks to his dad for buying the car, Dodgy for finding it, Shaun and Chris for their hand in painting it and everyone else who helped with the project.

[Jason A]

To follow, the story of Mr Grumpy's Austin 12 Ascot...

[mr-reno-139]

if we assume we are all old car lovers on A-S in some way or other and we then agree that not every car produced can be saved

 

there has always been cars raced that are too good but the alternative for many cars is straight in the crusher

 

ebay and the internet in general has merely opened up the market

but how many people have we all had mess about when buying/selling old cars

 

banger racers will normally pay up and get on with it and provide entertainement for the paying public

 

i also used to race 1980- 97 and as my son is now racing some of my cast offs regularly watch a lot of meetings

competed hednesford classic car meet 94/95/96 with renault 16 s

 

won twice got squished 3rd time as my card was marked by then

 

this one i crushed 5 yrs ago as could not sell it 43.000 mile auto i had given up racing and my son wasnt old enough !! no where to keep it