The Wedgister - Princess and Ambassador Records

[Funkyferret]

On 16/03/2024 at 18:31, vulgalour said:

Hello and welcome to this weird little nook of the forum.  Great to see someone else enjoying a wedge in their own way.  I've just moved house so I've not had chance to get back into updating the info on the website yet, I'm planning to get working on it over the next couple of weeks.  Any data is free to use, I've just been collating what I can find that's out there really and trying to put it into one spot.  Eventually, everything I have will be here: https://www.angyl.co.uk/work/wedgister as a hub for all the info collected.  My survivors list is probably out of date as things stand, I know a couple have surfaced recently and are back on the road, and a couple have died.

Mine is now my daily and only transport and I've got plans to do some improvements on her once the dust has settled here.  Definitely not one for the purists and I've no plans to return it to stock, I love what its become over the years and I'm looking forward to where it goes in the future.  I just use mine exactly as BL intended, as a car.  Here we were today at the tip earlier today, proving they are practical even if they don't have the Ambassador's hatch.

Did you take over from Kev?  Or am I thinking of the other Princess/Ambassador club?  It got very People's Front of Judea when I was trying to figure out which club to join and now I'm not a member of any.

Hi Angyl, I did take over from Kev - and Martin. They were having difficulty donating enough time to the club so elected to stand down, I didnt want to see it finish, the rest is history! The other club (The Princess & Ambassador Owners Club) was run by a chap called Harry Parker who passed away a while back sadly - but I think you are right, there was a "war" of clubs meaning lots of people joined neither and subsequently we are in short supply of members! Working on that tho - we've been attending as many shows as possible (we were at the NEC last November and again this weekend for the restoration show) and have found several wedges new owners. The website has the same address however we've a new facebook page called The Leyland Princess and Ambassador Enthusiasts club - feel free to have a browse if you use social media and say hello!

[MorrisItalSLX]

15 hours ago, Austat said:

Princess for sale in Western Australia:

\

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/boddington/cars-vans-utes/leyland-austin-princess-1975/1312467117

One of the Australian wedges has resurfaced.

[SilverMachine]

just saw this advertised and wondered if his ambassador will make an appearance!

https://www.tynetheatreandoperahouse.uk/portfolio/john-shuttleworth-raise-the-oof/?mc_cid=817dfabdec&mc_eid=52f8ae7552

hopefully within the rules, it is content related if only by song.

[vulgalour]

2 hours ago, MorrisItalSLX said:

One of the Australian wedges has resurfaced.

This is actually one of my all time favourite wedges out there.  The wheel and colour combo is just spot on, I wish we'd got that over here when they were new.

[SEATMad]

Another one to add if not already. A Vanden plas Ambassador. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176301190736?itmmeta=01HSP40KS43P9ZFF8Q3FPHJ57J&hash=item290c5eae50:g:m48AAOSwziNl~vc6 

[vulgalour]

Did have this one on the list but it is nice to see it looking so much better now than it did in 2016.

 

[adw1977]

This popped up randomly on my Facebook feed.  Most either unreadable or already known, but the third one along looks like HOE18N to me and DVLA say it's a Morris 1800, which would match the grille.  Untaxed since July 1985.

[lesapandre]

On 23/03/2024 at 17:04, SEATMad said:

Another one to add if not already. A Vanden plas Ambassador. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176301190736?itmmeta=01HSP40KS43P9ZFF8Q3FPHJ57J&hash=item290c5eae50:g:m48AAOSwziNl~vc6 

A last desperate roll of the dice by BL it seems. There is nothing very Vanden-Plas-sey about that interior at all except the badge. Pretty grim inside for the buyer at what I expect was a much higher price.

Charming of course and interesting but shows up BL's limitations by that point.

Always thought this looked better from the front as a mod to the existing car -  than the BL effort. 

And why BL modded the crisp original windscreen surround who knows.

Still for sale.

[adw1977]

3 hours ago, lesapandre said:

There is nothing very Vanden-Plas-sey about that interior at all except the badge. Pretty grim inside for the buyer at what I expect was a much higher price.

Actually, the price premium for a Vanden Plas over a HLS was quite small. 

Notice the completely pointless option of alloy wheels on a HLS that would push the price above a Vanden Plas with alloys as standard!

[Richard_FM]

In a Dutch scrapyard.

https://flic.kr/p/2pGFTDE

[lesapandre]

7 minutes ago, Richard_FM said:

In a Dutch scrapyard.

https://flic.kr/p/2pGFTDE

Left Hand Drive too.

[SilverMachine]

21 hours ago, Richard_FM said:

In a Dutch scrapyard.

https://flic.kr/p/2pGFTDE

wheels look about where they should be on this side at least, would one assume the suspension units may be salvagable? also the door bottoms appear to be rather good, shame about the dents but if its not rusty then thats not as big an issue. wonder if it has floors? or anything enginey!?

[Richard_FM]

On 01/04/2024 at 22:41, lesapandre said:

Left Hand Drive too.

Yes LHD examples must be rare even in this state!

[Dick Longbridge]

[SilverMachine]

On 02/04/2024 at 23:09, Dick Longbridge said:

aux773t untaxed since october 1995! still on the dvla database though! 1700cc, wonder what the trim level is, no headrests visible though! last v5 issued 2005, but could just be automatic issue of new type?

[ETCHY]

On 30/03/2024 at 07:03, lesapandre said:

A last desperate roll of the dice by BL it seems. There is nothing very Vanden-Plas-sey about that interior at all except the badge. Pretty grim inside for the buyer at what I expect was a much higher price.

Charming of course and interesting but shows up BL's limitations by that point.

Always thought this looked better from the front as a mod to the existing car -  than the BL effort. 

And why BL modded the crisp original windscreen surround who knows.

Still for sale.

The VP Ambassador looked even worse when BL for some reason nailed a bit of fake looking wood to the dash in front of the passenger on the later ones.  The bit on the doors wasn't too bad but that on the dash was awful.

[adw1977]

5 hours ago, ETCHY said:

The VP Ambassador looked even worse when BL for some reason nailed a bit of fake looking wood to the dash in front of the passenger on the later ones.  The bit on the doors wasn't too bad but that on the dash was awful.

Surely you mean "burr walnut veneer to add the finishing touch of contemporary richness."

Oct-Dec 1983 brochure

[ETCHY]

2 hours ago, adw1977 said:

Surely you mean "burr walnut veneer to add the finishing touch of contemporary richness."

Oct-Dec 1983 brochure

Hmm yeah that's it, it looks sooo natural & like it's always been there...

[lesapandre]

3 hours ago, ETCHY said:

Hmm yeah that's it, it looks sooo natural & like it's always been there...

 

6 hours ago, adw1977 said:

Surely you mean "burr walnut veneer to add the finishing touch of contemporary richness."

Oct-Dec 1983 brochure

I think BL made some great cars - really this one included but...they made some odd decisions - probably forced on them by expediency and not to compete with other cars in the stable and just general lack of cash. Note they can't 'deluxe up' the instrument panel because they left no further room for any further clocks like a rev counter, or analogue clock or anything else the upmarket market wanted.

And why a 2.0 and a 1.7 - I mean really whats the difference? And why not a six or a 3L? Mercedes had a huge range of engines on the W123 - one for every pocket and user.

The only market these were aimed at seemed Terry and June.

Ambassador had no LHD version...

Ah happy days...funny old BL.

[quicksilver]

8 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

 

I think BL made some great cars - really this one included but...they made some odd decisions - probably forced on them by expediency and not to compete with other cars in the stable and just general lack of cash. Note they can't 'deluxe up' the instrument panel because they left no further room for any further clocks like a rev counter, or analogue clock or anything else the upmarket market wanted.

And why a 2.0 and a 1.7 - I mean really whats the difference? And why not a six or a 3L? Mercedes had a huge range of engines on the W123 - one for every pocket and user.

The only market these were aimed at seemed Terry and June.

Ambassador had no LHD version...

Ah happy days...funny old BL.

The Ambassador is one of the craziest BL decisions. The Princess was the model least in need of replacement, yet they changed every panel where a simple facelift would do, and left the Allegro, Maxi and Marina that did need replacing to soldier on with nothing more than cheap facelifts. So little they did ever made any sense.

[adw1977]

5 minutes ago, quicksilver said:

The Ambassador is one of the craziest BL decisions. The Princess was the model least in need of replacement, yet they changed every panel where a simple facelift would do, and left the Allegro, Maxi and Marina that did need replacing to soldier on with nothing more than cheap facelifts. So little they did ever made any sense.

Maxi production had finished before the Ambassador launched, but I agree that the extent of the changes made to the Princess seems excessive. 

A more extensive facelift of the Allegro, getting the headlights moved to the corners to get rid of the podgy "face"  would seem a better use of cash.

21 minutes ago, lesapandre said:

And why a 2.0 and a 1.7 - I mean really whats the difference? And why not a six or a 3L?

Discontinuing the six cylinder engine allowed for a lower bonnet line, although looking at a Princess a high bonnet doesn't really seem an issue!

At around the same time as the Ambassador launch, the Rover SD1 range was being extended downwards with a four cylinder 2000 model for the first time.  Perhaps the Ambassador had to be kept a bit downmarket to avoid overlap.

[quicksilver]

11 hours ago, adw1977 said:

Maxi production had finished before the Ambassador launched, but I agree that the extent of the changes made to the Princess seems excessive. 

A more extensive facelift of the Allegro, getting the headlights moved to the corners to get rid of the podgy "face"  would seem a better use of cash.

I haven't seen it said anywhere but perhaps the idea, in BL's usual muddled way of thinking, was that the Ambassador would replace both the Maxi and the Princess, so the Maxi replacement budget contributed to the Ambassador. To spend so much on a total redesign, then sell so few and drop it after a couple of years is still madness though. Come to think of it, the Maestro was well in development when the Ambassador was designed, so the money would have been better spent on getting that to market a bit earlier.

BL have form for this sort of thing: the saga of redesigning the Allegro to accommodate the surplus E-series engines that would fit in the Marina is another great example.

[adw1977]

I think it's true that the Ambassador was seen partly as a Maxi replacement. 

Also have a look at AROnline's article on LM14/15, a large hatchback based on the Maestro/Montego platform that could have been a more direct replacement for the Ambassador but not due for launch until 1986, implying Ambassador production until then. 

Presumably once LM14/15 was dropped, it was decided to focus on the Montego and not have internal competition with the Ambassador.

[SilverMachine]

On 04/04/2024 at 21:54, quicksilver said:

The Ambassador is one of the craziest BL decisions. The Princess was the model least in need of replacement, yet they changed every panel where a simple facelift would do, and left the Allegro, Maxi and Marina that did need replacing to soldier on with nothing more than cheap facelifts. So little they did ever made any sense.

ive tried finding a  uk sales chart as i would expect the princess was probably one of the lesser selling models?  and the marina allegro and maxi were still selling?  but currently cant find one that i dont need to be a member to view... but i also assume that the princess was sold alongside the ambassador for a good while like all other bl models that were supposed to replace them! (thinking austin cambridge - landcrab, mini - metro etc.)

[adw1977]

I don't think there was much overlap between Princess and Ambassador, doubtless there would have been some unsold Princesses still being sold in the first few months of the Ambassador, but certainly nothing like the 7 year overlap of Cambridge and Landcrab!

[SilverMachine]

the princess to ambassador change is very much like the mk1 to mk2 escort change, but in both instances i do prefer the mk1 escort and the original princess! was just using the landcrab and metro as comparison, i guess is a rare instance the mini outlived the metro! oh no now i want to find what other originals survived the replacements.... thats a internet rabbit hole i will probably be in for a while....

 

[quicksilver]

4 hours ago, adw1977 said:

I don't think there was much overlap between Princess and Ambassador, doubtless there would have been some unsold Princesses still being sold in the first few months of the Ambassador, but certainly nothing like the 7 year overlap of Cambridge and Landcrab!

According to Wikipedia there was a 4-month gap between Princess and Ambassador production - Princess discontinued in November 1981 and Ambassador launched in March 1982.

[Dick Longbridge]

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/230470423458182/