Porsche 924 - It's ALIVE!

[Danblez]

Well after the successful welding and sale of the camper by some sheer coincidence I had this delivered on the same day at the weekend. I had been considering a fun weekend care to replace the camper and was looking for something rear wheeled drive, turbo charged and cheap. A chance conversation with my brotherin-law who is in the 924 club and hey presto I am now the proud new owner of this.

 

 

This had been the daily driver of someone up until when it had got a bit smokey and so I knew I was buying it with either a HG or Turbo failure. Hmmmmmm does this pic give any indication what it might be?

 

 

It runs well and there is no mayo in the oil but a careful look in the header tank reveals a few small blobs of oil. I must admit I was hoping for turbo seals but not to worry!

 

So here it is as of last night. I got it up on the ramps to check out the situation regarding whipping the head off ("whipping" roughly translated as weeks of blood sweat, tears and bloody knuckles no doubt). Apparently it isn't too bad apart from getting the manifold to turbo bolts out. Two of which are OK but the third is underneath and hidden by all sorts of stuff like the subframe, exhaust, steering rack. Some prefer to take the whole engine out and I can see why.

 

 

Comesmitcally it isn't too bad, the bonnet and front is flat and looks like someone has had a brillo on it but hopefully it will look better after a mopping. Interior needs some work mostly front seats and headlining but overall it seems to be in reasonably good health. The front jacking points are looking a bit crusty but now I can stick bits of metal together this no longer holds any fear! Now thats progress!

 

I am trying not to be overwhelmed by the mechanical work as I have never tried anything like this before, but I have tools and I am not afraid to use them. There seems to be great support from the club and my BiL has just had the engine out of his and so I am reasonably confident I can get it done. I presume blind optimism is the way forward in these situations right?

[ashmicro]

By Christ, that's lovely! I'm afraid I only ever owned and worked on non-turbo 924s so can't be much help. Best of luck with it, that looks like a good 'un.

[Cavcraft]

Quality stuff! I don't know if any were Turbo models but Craig at Chadwick's Car Breakers, Broughton Mills Rd, Bretton, nr Chester had a couple of 924s in if you need anything.

[warren t claim]

100000000% Jealous. I really need a 924 soon.

[dollywobbler]

Nice one. Look forward to finding out if a shite Porsche is still a Porsche. (quite fancy a dangerously cheap 928 with the three-layers-of-brown interior myself).

[HillmanImp]

They are so insanely cheap its almost rude not to own one. Great buy (depending on the seriousness of the OMG HGF).

[Danblez]

They are so insanely cheap its almost rude not to own one. Great buy (depending on the seriousness of the OMG HGF).

 

You are right they are criminally cheap and parts are plentyful, even direct from Porsche they can be surprisingly cheap. Only 60 odd turbos left on the road too so I hope I have caught them at rock bottom! I think the HG failure has been caught early and seems minor. The only seriousness in this situation is I dont know what I am doing!

 

 

Quality stuff! I don't know if any were Turbo models but Craig at Chadwick's Car Breakers, Broughton Mills Rd, Bretton, nr Chester had a couple of 924s in if you need anything.

 

Cheers Cavette, always useful to know!

[eddyramrod]

Sorry Dan, I'm ignoring the car altogether and trying to work out from the pics which part of town you're in, seeing as I lived there for 50 years. Hillside/Ainsdale, near one or other of the stations?

 

Oh and good luck with the car, btw.

[Danblez]

Sorry Dan, I'm ignoring the car altogether and trying to work out from the pics which part of town you're in, seeing as I lived there for 50 years. Hillside/Ainsdale, near one or other of the stations?

 

Oh and good luck with the car, btw.

 

Ruddy hell you are good!

[wackywacerwill]

Quality purchase. Now get out there and fix it

[Pillock]

No offence but from a Shite point of view, I always thought the Turbo was the best model. Those vents on the front end look like someone was wandering around the spares department the evening before the prototype was unveiled, in a bit of a panic.

 

Very Q-car though, 924s are well known for not being amazingly quick (what with all the bollocks about van engines on the internets) so a Turbo should be pretty surprising

Looking forward to seeing more than this.

[eddyramrod]

Sorry Dan, I'm ignoring the car altogether and trying to work out from the pics which part of town you're in, seeing as I lived there for 50 years. Hillside/Ainsdale, near one or other of the stations?

 

Oh and good luck with the car, btw.

 

Ruddy hell you are good!

 

I've walked, cycled or driven almost every inch of road in that town, even the new bits. At this point I think I need a "modest blush" emoticon! Yeah, I know it fairly well, but that's through a lifetime of exposure. I've been in Paphos three years now, it'll take me a bit longer to reach the same level.

[Ross_K]

Lovely looking car. Good luck with it

[Danblez]

Alright gang, I managed to get a bit of time in today with the 924 to see if I can find out the situation is regarding the smoking, I haven't really experienced this but have been assured there are random times of lots of smoke. Doesnt make much sense as I have had it up to temperature a few times with very litte in the way of smoke.

 

Amyway firstly I pulled the plugs as I believe a HG faliure can wash the plug clean but they all looked pretty similar, a nice brown hew. Hmmmm ok so today I popped out and bought a compression tester warmed the car up and then popped 1 plug out at a time, the results are below.

 

1 =141psi

2= 130 psi

3= 125 psi

4= 139 psi

 

I believe that within 10% is normally OK?

 

Now the odd thing was when I popped number 4 plug out, smoke started to come out of the plug hole and the plug seemed to be oily so I looked down the plug hole the and saw that the top of the pistion was wet. At first I though this was because I had been cranking without the dizzy lead on and this was probably petrol but when I popped number one back out again this wasn't wet.

 

So put everything back together and started it up and clouds of blue smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. This eventually cleared and so I popped number 4 out again and sure enough same scenario, wet piston crown and plug thread.

 

This doesnt make any sense to me, the oil seems to accumulate during the cranking whilst testing the other cylinders. Rings or valve stem seals have been suggested but wouldnt rings whow on the compression test?

 

Just planning my way forward, anyone any suggestions of what I culd do next before deciding whether to go down the head off or engine out route?

[John F]

Alright gang, I managed to get a bit of time in today with the 924 to see if I can find out the situation is regarding the smoking, I haven't really experienced this but have been assured there are random times of lots of smoke. Doesnt make much sense as I have had it up to temperature a few times with very litte in the way of smoke.

 

Amyway firstly I pulled the plugs as I believe a HG faliure can wash the plug clean but they all looked pretty similar, a nice brown hew. Hmmmm ok so today I popped out and bought a compression tester warmed the car up and then popped 1 plug out at a time, the results are below.

 

1 =141psi

2= 130 psi

3= 125 psi

4= 139 psi

 

I believe that within 10% is normally OK?

 

Now the odd thing was when I popped number 4 plug out, smoke started to come out of the plug hole and the plug seemed to be oily so I looked down the plug hole the and saw that the top of the pistion was wet. At first I though this was because I had been cranking without the dizzy lead on and this was probably petrol but when I popped number one back out again this wasn't wet.

 

So put everything back together and started it up and clouds of blue smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. This eventually cleared and so I popped number 4 out again and sure enough same scenario, wet piston crown and plug thread.

 

This doesnt make any sense to me, the oil seems to accumulate during the cranking whilst testing the other cylinders. Rings or valve stem seals have been suggested but wouldnt rings whow on the compression test?

 

Just planning my way forward, anyone any suggestions of what I culd do next before deciding whether to go down the head off or engine out route?

 

It's definitely oil, is it? If so, it shouldn't be in that combustion chamber so the head will have to come off. Sounds like HGF to me rather than valve stem oil seals or rings.

[Station]

Old car - might be stuck injector if it's petrol in there.

 

Just take the head off and change the gasket and the valve stem seals, it isn't a big job at all.

[Danblez]

Alright gang, I managed to get a bit of time in today with the 924 to see if I can find out the situation is regarding the smoking, I haven't really experienced this but have been assured there are random times of lots of smoke. Doesnt make much sense as I have had it up to temperature a few times with very litte in the way of smoke.

 

Amyway firstly I pulled the plugs as I believe a HG faliure can wash the plug clean but they all looked pretty similar, a nice brown hew. Hmmmm ok so today I popped out and bought a compression tester warmed the car up and then popped 1 plug out at a time, the results are below.

 

1 =141psi

2= 130 psi

3= 125 psi

4= 139 psi

 

I believe that within 10% is normally OK?

 

Now the odd thing was when I popped number 4 plug out, smoke started to come out of the plug hole and the plug seemed to be oily so I looked down the plug hole the and saw that the top of the pistion was wet. At first I though this was because I had been cranking without the dizzy lead on and this was probably petrol but when I popped number one back out again this wasn't wet.

 

So put everything back together and started it up and clouds of blue smoke started pouring out of the exhaust. This eventually cleared and so I popped number 4 out again and sure enough same scenario, wet piston crown and plug thread.

 

This doesnt make any sense to me, the oil seems to accumulate during the cranking whilst testing the other cylinders. Rings or valve stem seals have been suggested but wouldnt rings whow on the compression test?

 

Just planning my way forward, anyone any suggestions of what I culd do next before deciding whether to go down the head off or engine out route?

 

It's definitely oil, is it? If so, it shouldn't be in that combustion chamber so the head will have to come off. Sounds like HGF to me rather than valve stem oil seals or rings.

 

I carried out another compression test yesterday after warming the car up fully. There is some smoke on startup and a very small continous amount, hard to tell if it is white or blue, although this could be because it has stood for some time. Anyway after it was up to temperature I popped the plugs again and did 4 first, again it looked a bit moist, it must be oil rather than water as the engine was hot. I think I could see the edge of the piston too whch seemed to have a ring of oil around it. Anyways, compression test yielded the same reults.

 

So I took it out for a spin and there is lots of blue smoke under acceleration and when backed off. I took it home and popped 4 out again and it looked fine, no more moisture and the plug was pretty clean.

 

There is definately something else going on too as there have been several random occassions of masses of thick white smoke, most noticably when the car stalled and wouldnt start. The fuel pump wasn't priming and when it did eventually it was James Bond style smoke screen! The neighbours love me!

 

The 924 boys reckon valve stem seals but I am not sure.

[Danblez]

Old car - might be stuck injector if it's petrol in there.

 

Just take the head off and change the gasket and the valve stem seals, it isn't a big job at all.

 

I would be doing this already but apparently the turbo to manifold 3rd bolt underneath is a bitch to undo and many prefer the engine out option. I dont know if I am over analysing this and should just be getting on with SOMETHING, ANYTHING!!

[John F]

^ Sounds like you might be

 

Blue smoke does indicate burning oil, and masses of white smoke indicates possible water ingress as well, which does point towards HGF rather than valve stem oil seals. But if there's oil in the cylinder the head definitely has to come off... Engine out is a good option if you have space & an engine hoist.

[Danblez]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I made some good progress on the 924 recently which started with deciding if the head needed to come off or not. So I borrowed a sniff test from my local friendly mechanic, got the car running and stuck it over the header tank. I was fairly convinced at this point the HG had not failed.

 

 

So 30 seconds later you will be glad to know I was proved WRONG as usual!

 

Bugger! Oh well at least I know where I stand

 

 

So after doing some reading up on the 924 forum and seeking some advice I went for it last weekend.

 

First off is the exhaust, and really quite hefty to be remvoing on your own. But with only one minor incident and a sore nose (ratchet-nose interface) I liberated this.

 

 

Now stage one was successfully completed I moved on to supposedly the most difficult bit which was the bolt on the underside of the turbo flange but ironically this was one of the easiest tasks of the day and was of in 10 mins! Yay!

 

Then I got stuck trying to tremove this innocuous looking bolt on top of the turbo manifold. I could get enough wobble on my extensions tand there was no room to get down by the inner wing. The only extension I could get on it was a 1/4 inch drive which decided to implode after 2 minutes of use. THANKS EBAY! Ok maybe the breaker bar didnt help the situation!

 

 

After I while I tried the UJ I had an eventaully got it cracked off, but this didnt end well as before it had come all the way out and because of the angle of torque I somehow got the bolt stuck and managed to partially strip both the turbo manifold and the very expensive nut (replacements £25 a pop, I think it may have a normal bolt put back in!)

 

 

Anyway I will worry about that later. I then cracked on removing the inlet manifold and the myriad of pipes and connectors, carefully labeling up most of these as they came off. I was also quite proud of my nut and bolt sorting box which I had fully labelled until the feckin wind blew it over and scattered all my lovely buts and bolts all over the lawn. BRILLIANT!

 

Inlet manifold off, whoop!

 

 

More unplugiing,m unbolting and unscrewing got me to the point of head removal. I was quite exicted at this point as I would finally see what the issue with the engine was.

 

 

Now as I was undoung the head bolts I noticed the one in the corner next to no.4 was pretty lose, I didnt think any more of this until the head finally came off. The head hasket was perfect when it came off but it was easy to see where it had been leaking and sure enough it was the cylinder with the lose bolt. How annoying! You can see at the bottom of the cylinder where it had been leaking and how much cleaner the piston was.

 

 

This is the corresponding head pic. You will have to take my word for it that the gasket was complete!

 

 

So the head got sent off an returned the day after having been stripped cleaned, valves decoked and lappped back in, new gaskets and vavle stem seals and it looks like this. Oh it apparently needed a skim too.

 

 

So I am hoping to get the head back in on wednesday evening a with the help from my bro-in-law and someone from the 924 club as it is a little more involved that taking it off. Hopefully another full weekend and it is going to be on the road!Fingers crossed!

[John F]

Good progress, Dan!

 

Is there anything in the paperwork with the car to indicate that it's had cylinder head work in the recent past? That might explain the loose head bolt.

[Danblez]

Good progress, Dan!

 

Is there anything in the paperwork with the car to indicate that it's had cylinder head work in the recent past? That might explain the loose head bolt.

 

History is sparse but it has a series 1 head on a series 2 car and so it has definitely had head work in the past. I think there are some witness marks on the piston crowns too which would suggest cambelt failure.

 

I am not surprised they wren't torqued down properly as the procedure is 40nm, 80nm then 110nm. Leave at least one hour, slacken slightly and re torque in same way again followed by running the car to full operating temperature and doing the same again.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Nice work! These old Audi based engines were nice to work on, except for replacing the starter which is an absolute bastard. You'll need the specific Turbo head gasket though - iirc, the standard 924 one doesn't do.

[Danblez]

Nice work! These old Audi based engines were nice to work on, except for replacing the starter which is an absolute bastard. You'll need the specific Turbo head gasket though - iirc, the standard 924 one doesn't do.

 

Cheers! It is indeed specific to the turbo and it looks like this

 

 

Before looking like this

 

 

Finally this! Whooop! Feels good to get the head back on, now just a day or two over the weekend and it should be running again. Not bad for 1 weekend and an evenings work, properly chuffed. Lets just hope I can remember where everything goes!

 

 

Hopefully by the end of the weekend it should be running again!

[John F]

Nice one Dan, hope you don't have any bolts left over

[Danblez]

Nice one Dan, hope you don't have any bolts left over

 

I dropped a couple down those round holes with the cup things at the bottom but they won't come to any harm down there right?

[Cavcraft]

Hey Dan, is this any use?

 

http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... ead=130223

[Cavcraft]

Hey Dan, is this any use?

 

http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... ead=130223

[Danblez]

Ooooh cheers for the heads up!

 

As of last night, £250 and 37 hours.............

 

 

To stay I am happy is quite an understatement. Took it for a blast down the Formby bypass last night and it goes well for a 32 year old car!

[Danblez]

Ooooh cheers for the heads up!

 

As of last night, £250 and 37 hours.............

 

 

To stay I am happy is quite an understatement. Took it for a blast down the Formby bypass last night and it goes well for a 32 year old car!