Lancia Y10 1.3 GTIe - Why will it not start?

[philibusmo]

http://www.mister-auto.ie/en/cam-belt-kit/lancia-y10-156-1-3-i-e-fire-72hp_v2652_g307.html

 

Is this your set up?

 

The pulley marked op is the oil pump drive and the dizzy is often driven off this and needs to be timed. Of course it could be driven off the cam in which case ignore me.

That is approximately right and the oil pump is where pictured on that diagram. The oil filter is down there and thinking about it, the distributor is almost next to this. I think it is driven off the cam though. This engine is an small evolution of the 1301 'Brazil' unit found in the Fiat 127GT and the Fiat Uno Turbo if that helps anyone with prior knowledge of these units.

 

There is certainly no mention in this shitty workshop manual of keeping the oil pump pulley in place, and I have previously removed the timing belt from all but the lower pulley (until I realised I needed a 38mm socket for the bottom pulley and so gave up and put it all back together) on this occasion I only lined up the top and bottom pulleys and made no effort to stop the oil pump from moving and everything was fine.

[twosmoke300]

Did you time that gear?

[philibusmo]

Did you time that gear?

 

I did not time the oil pump and it did move.

[twosmoke300]

Boom , there you go . Ive had a closer look at your pics on the laptop and your dizzy does look like its driven off the aux/ op shaft .

 

To retime out need to set the rotor arm to be pointing at number 1 lead and the crank/cam at no1 tdc.

[philibusmo]

It seems very odd that the timing was not out when I took the belt off last time, and I'm fairly sure the oil pump was moved that time. Maybe it only ended up being moved a tooth or two in which case the fancy ignition gubbins may have been able to change the timing to compensate.

 

I'll have a look at that tomorrow, it seems like a likely cause.

 

If I removed the distributor, moved the cam to TDC and then popped the distributor back in with the rotor arm pointing at TDC would that likely be possible without having to take the belt off again?

[twosmoke300]

It might not be that but it looks very likely .

 

Rule of thumb for cambelts , if it toothed , time it !

 

Common rail diesel fuel pumps are the exeption to this but its still good practice.

 

Does it run clock or anticlockwise?

[daverapid]

I don't know how I missed this thread. Lots of fantastic work on a car that most wouldn't bother with. Well done!

[philibusmo]

It might not be that but it looks very likely .

 

Rule of thumb for cambelts , if it toothed , time it !

 

Common rail diesel fuel pumps are the exeption to this but its still good practice.

 

Does it run clock or anticlockwise?

 

Clockwise I think

[daverapid]

I would set the engine to TDC, valves on number 4 cylinder "on the rock", both valves on number 1 cylinder closed. Rotor arm should be pointing to number 1 HT lead on the distributor cap. Rocker cover needs removing to do this.

[twosmoke300]

Cheers Phill . so if it runs clockwise then it is an unusual set up with the tensioner on the drive side of the belt.

[philibusmo]

I've just found the part number for the tensioner I bought for this engine (LUK 531001320) and found which other cars it fits as I was having real trouble finding any detailed pictures of the 1301cc lump from my car and I found it also fits the 1050cc version of the Y10.

 

I riffled through the workshop manual and finally found something useful, a cut away diagram of the lubrication system of the 1050cc engine, including the oil pump, with what looks like a drive going from the pulley up to the distributor and down to the oil pump - looks like you guys are right and I am an oaf.

 

Thanks chaps!

 

I'll get that sorted tomorrow, it's just odd how in this workshop manual for no engine does it ever mention locking anything other than the cam and crank.

 

Here's the view:

And here's a better view of the pulley arrangement:

Do we think I'll be able to leave the belt undisturbed and just turn it round to the crank and cam are pointing at TDC and then remove the distributor and put it back in the righ position or will I need to take the belt off, line up the pulleys to all be at TDC and then do battle with the tensioner again?

[twosmoke300]

You may well be able to turn the dizzy round . worth a try . as long as the can/ crank timing is deffo OK.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Yesssssssssssssssssssssssssß

[twosmoke300]

Does Mr b want a job in cornwall ?

[philibusmo]

Top job chaps, many thanks to the both of you.

[twosmoke300]

We want video evidence of it running

[nigel bickle]

Rather than pulling the distributor, loosen it slightly, then move each lead two points around, the cap. If it is indeed 180 degrees out, that'll sort it.

Once running, moving the distributor slightly, gently in either direction will get your timing near spot on. So easy to hear on Eyetie ja jars.

 

I do this all the time. It's a real pain ,but easily sorted.

[philibusmo]

 

You asked for a video, you get a video.

 

Cheers for the help, with the leads moved around 1 place clock wise on the distributor cap it now runs nicely. I have since put everything back together that wasn't there on the video and it's runs great and drives normally. Only slight issues are is that the idle seems to just be a smidge high and the water pump pulley is catching slightly on the lower timing belt cover. Tomorrow I will bend the cover back a mm or so, and just loosen the distributor and see if I can maybe retard the timing very slightly to lower the idle.

 

Only other issue is that one of the HT leads has disintegrated a bit so is currently held together with duct tape. I have ordered some new ones from my local motor factors which should arrive tomorrow so no big problem.

[barefoot]

Well done, Sir.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

'AVE IT!!!!!!!!

[nigel bickle]

1 position on the distributor would put it 90 degrees out, which is a bit weird.

You may well find that you can move the distributor quite a lot, like about 85degrees, to get it spot on!

 

Don't be afraid to wing it around, you'll quickly hear the difference

[twosmoke300]

Woop

[320touring]

I love it when a fix is simple!

 

Even though it caused much aggro;)

[cort16]

This is why I hate cars. You go to the effort of doing a timing belt and the car has the windscreen wipers driven of a tiny nylon cog connected to a crank pulley that's not in any documentation or manual.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

What became of this little Y10? 

[skattrd]

What became of this little Y10? 

 

Phil went abroad, the car did the rounds on a bit of a trusted shiter loan scheme.

Then it got sold to someone on here before I got hold of him asking to buy it

[HMC]

Has For Fiats Sake got it? Thought I saw a picture on another thread recently (maybe the panda Alessi one?) with it in shot.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

I remember it ended up being sold after the trusted shiter loan scheme, but couldn't remember who to. Actually, now I've said that, I vaguely remember a picture of it in a barn with a damaged door frame...

[skattrd]

http://autoshite.com/topic/18461-lancia-y10-trusted-shiter-loan-or-sale-£600/page-10

 

It looks like Bjorn could be right … For Fiats Sake appears to be the last owner