604 STi mini review.

[Pete-M]

As it looks like the 604 will be leaving me shortly, I figured it'd be a good idea to post a mini review on 'ere for all those who'd like to know what the old bus is like.

 

It's not bad actually. Not bad at all.

 

The ride quality is pretty damn good. It doesn't soak everything up, but it does its best and it's not a bad effort at all. On the motorway or dual carriageways it's superb and around town it's comparable to some of the best riding older cars I've ever driven - including gas sprung Citroens as it soaks up transverse ridges in a way the Citroens don't, although that is about the one thing that BXs and Xantias tend to stumble on. The 604s ride quality is far better than on the immaculate W126 Mercedes I drove a few weeks ago. Not a patch on an air-sprung current shape S-class, but better than a Bentley Turbo R or my XJR.

 

Seats are very squidgy and soft, I can't think of a modern car with seats anywhere near as soft as 604 ones. It's quite a strange experience as when you climb in you sink into the seat. Having said that, the stupid curved seat runners mean that getting a decent driving position takes some time. The steering wheel is on a weird angle as well, with the top a fair bit further away than the bottom. Similar to an old Mini. That took some getting used to.

 

It handles bloody well for a 4.7 metre long barge, far better than I expected. Yes it leans a bit in the corners but not too much. Steering is light but accurate with far better turn in than I expected. Dive and squat are less pronounced than I expected.

 

Engine is a strange old lump. Shimmies at idle in a similar way to a modern TDi but smooths out almost instantly and pulls well enough. It's no rocket ship but pulling away from rest it gets away pretty smartly. Just trundling around there are no problems whatsoever keeping up with traffic, getting away from the lights on a light throttle better than a lot of modern stuff. It's not a fast car, but it was never meant to be. Gets a tad noisy when given some welly, however there's a couple of exhaust blows I need to attend to this week, just blowing at the joints, the exhaust system is in pretty good shape. Engine note is very strange, it doesn't sound like a V6, but it doesn't sound like a V8 or a four pot either. Exhaust note is deep and doesn't vary much with revs, it's a bass baritone of a lump. It actually revs quite well, which I suppose is something to do with the flat crank 90°ness of it. Most V6s tend not to like to rev whereas this seems quite happy up there. It's just as happy at 1500 rpm though. As I say, weird old lump.

 

Auto box is remarkably smooth. Only three gears but the shift is excellent unless lots of welly is being employed when it gets a bit more sudden. Kickdown takes a lot of right foot to engage but works smartly enough. Weird habit is when parking it's worth keeping your foot on the brake pedal when selecting park as the car occasionally lurches forward a bit when disengaging drive - I nearly shoved it through the garage door when I first brought it home but it's just a quirk that needs remembering and getting used to. It's ok when reverse parking or other similar shunting about. Gearing is shorter than on a modern, but not annoyingly so. It tends to sit at 1500-2000 rpm in town but on the motorway at an indicated 70 it's pulling just above 3000 rpm

 

The mad switchgear is beginning to make a bit of sense now. At first glance it looks like someone has loaded a blunderbuss with cheap switches, fired them at the dash and that's where they were fitted but there is a small amount of logic involved in their placement. Top row are the switches used most often, from left to right it's heated rear window, sunroof, hazards in one bunch of three (all different shaped switches) then in another bunch it's left front window, a blank, right front window. On the lower row of switches are the rear windows, dash illumination, rear fog, rear window kill switch and something else I can't remember right now. Stalks take a few minutes to get used to but they're standard Peugeot issue from the early 80's. Indicator on left, wipers on right. Twist indicator stalk for lights and push the end in for the horn. Wipers on right, twist for intermittent and speeds, push in for on/off, pull toward dash for 'flick wipe'. The little light by the ignition key is a nice touch, as is the curry hook which is in the drivers footwell for some reason. Methinks they didn't bother moving it for RHD.

 

Mad wipers work well with the left hand one having a much larger arc than the drivers side. Other than the two blades sitting in front of the driver when parked it's a great way of doing it. Must be really good on LHD ones.

 

Headlamps are about as good as you'll get without going to Xenons. Should be with the size of the buggers.

 

Boot is cavernous even with the fuel tank between it and the rear seats.

 

It's a pretty strange old bus really. I've had a few comments about it from friends (whos girlfriends and wives tend to think it's hideous) but it bizarrely fits in well with modern traffic. Not the most fuel efficient thing on the planet, but it seems to be doing around 17 mpg in town which isn't bad for a 2.7 litre auto from the early '80s. Uses about the same amount of fuel around town as a 2.8i Granada / Sierra or whatever which isn't too bad.

 

So, is it as good as I'd hoped? Yeah, it is nice to drive. The driving position isn't ideal for me but it doesn't detract from the experience enough to put me off. In some ways the 604 is far better than I'd ever imagined, in others it's different from my expectations but not necessarily in a negative way. It's bloody impressive for a car designed forty years ago. A lot of common sense has gone into it and it's obvious that Peugeot knew how to make a great riding and handling car when they put their minds to it.

 

I'm glad I saved it.

[outlaw118]

Had my lottery numbers come up this weekend, I would be on a train to Scouseland clutching a wad of cash.

The 604 is probably the ONLY Peugeot i actually WANT. Mrs has had a 206 (ok, bit plasticky, 100% reliable), mates have had 205's relatives have had 505's bro' had a 309gti (fast, handled like it was on rails - sold to Autoplas of this parish - I'll let him embellish the story of electrical maladies), but I always liked the 604. There's something imposing about the squareness of it, and having sat in one at the motorshow in 198? the seats were amazing, the switchgear "different" and the luxury feel was overwhelming to me - although i was probably only 12 at the time. I begged Mutha and Fatha_outlaw to buy one, but was told that 1) it was too expensive, and 2) It wouldn't fit in the garage. The same argument went for it's "sister" The Tagora They went and bought a 1.6L Montego in 1984.....

 

Still it's good to see yours done, whilst I understand your reasons for selling, I don't think I would be able to do it, if I was in your position. I get far too attached to stuff.....

 

Good luck, hopefully it will stay in the family, if not, you may be able to convince the new owner to join, so we can keep updated.

[ChinaTom]

Thanks for that Pete - I have enjoyed the whole episode and it's a shame to lose it so quickly, but sort of understand where you're coming from. Like so many here, I would have taken that off you - my excuse being that I have no space whatsoever to put it. I had thought of offering to take a 33% share in it with 2 others. When I saw the FBK post I sat up all night working on a scheme were 2 people contributed 40% each, and took an equal equity with a 20% contributor who had space to keep it. It all got too complicated, so resigned the idea back to mere fantasy.

 

Now don't go selling it before you tell us what that other switch did on the bottom row...

[dollywobbler]

Very interesting. Regarding the wipers - the French often had them park in front of the driver and I think I know why. When the blade goes swiping over to the other side, it obviously pushes a lot of water with it, leaving a line at the end of its travel. At motorway speeds, this line tends to break up and move its way up the screen (it certainly does on the BX - very irritating!) but if the wiper is in front of you, this shouldn't happen.

 

On Dyanes, the blades park in front of the left-hand drive driver - they didn't bother changing it for right-hand drive. On 2CVs, the blades should sit in front of the driver regardless of steering wheel position (mine has had them moved at some point). Porsche 911 was the same, as was the XJS for a while (though they briefly changed it in about 1989). Sorry, boring wiper talk...

 

It's always interesting to hear how these rare machines drive as so few of us will get the chance to drive one. I've driven a 202 pick-up, but nowt else before a 305.

[theorganist]

Thankyou. very interesting and informative review. Wish I had the money to buy it, sounds like a wonderful car, well done for saving it.

 

Would be interesting to see more reviews like this, especially of the rarer cars!

[dieselnutjob]

Very interesting. Regarding the wipers - the French often had them park in front of the driver and I think I know why. When the blade goes swiping over to the other side, it obviously pushes a lot of water with it, leaving a line at the end of its travel. At motorway speeds, this line tends to break up and move its way up the screen (it certainly does on the BX - very irritating!) but if the wiper is in front of you, this shouldn't happen.

 

On Dyanes, the blades park in front of the left-hand drive driver - they didn't bother changing it for right-hand drive. On 2CVs, the blades should sit in front of the driver regardless of steering wheel position (mine has had them moved at some point). Porsche 911 was the same, as was the XJS for a while (though they briefly changed it in about 1989). Sorry, boring wiper talk...

 

The concept was this: on the left hand drive ones the wipers park left with the left wiper only sweeping 90 deg, so only sweeping the drivers side. The right wiper parks above it and sweeps nearly 180 degrees so wipes both drivers side and passenger side. The consequence is that the driver gets two wipes whilst the passenger doesn't need such good visibility so only gets one. The idea is to be able to drive at illegal speeds on the autoroute in driving rain with the driver getting two wipes for every sweep, if you know what I mean... Also as one of the wipers only goes 90 deg it's never that far from the drivers line of sight. The first couple of years of 604 right hand drives got left hand drive wipers, so the passenger gets a better view than the driver though it does mean that the wipers park left out the drivers view.

 

The stalks are more mad on the early 604s, with indicator on the right and the lights controlled by the left in a "C" pattern. Pull towards for side lights, then down for dipped, then forward (but on the bottom of the C) for main. From no lights you push straight down against a spring to go directly to main to flash people. From side lights you can't flash people as that would be diagonally opposite.

 

Pete didn't mention the sunroof which is absolutely hugh. I've never been in a convertable but it can't be far off the same sensation.

 

 

As Pete says, speed humps are nearly irrelevant in a 604. The seat position is okay for me but the backrest could do with a tad more lumbar support. The ignition switch is in a hump that sticks down below the dash above your left knee; no problem on the auto but horrible on the manual as the clutch is quite a long throw and your knee hits it (painfully in my case) everytime you change gear.

 

I prefer the early interior. The top half of the dash is black rubber and the bottom half is black painted metal and the air vents are bigger. The door cards are two tone. The later ones like Petes are much more plasticy. The early 604 has a much more dated feel. Still there are so few early ones in the UK that basically you will have to wait until either me or postman in Ipswich are dead, so just forget that and buy Petes.

[Pete-M]

Phil's door trims are definitely nicer than in mine. Still gutted mine's not got the leather.

[jonathan_dyane]

I just had the good fortune to pass Pete driving this beaut through Wavertree Technology Park, and I have to say what a cracking looking motor car! Nicest 604 I've ever seen in the flesh.

[Pete-M]

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Before

 

 

After

 

 

Need to add the final pics to eBay now. Shame. It's just about getting there.

[Volksy]

It even has an 'antistatic strip'*

 

Hnnnnggggghhh

[trigger]

Someone posted this on that scrapyard group on facecloth tonight, fancy taking on another?!

 

[Pete-M]

Nope. One's enough for me, but I can wholeheartedly recommend fixing one up to anyone that's tempted.

 

(or just buy mine...)

[dieselnutjob]

Someone posted this on that scrapyard group on facecloth tonight, fancy taking on another?!

 

 

where is it?

[trigger]

No idea, I've just asked though.

[MrDuke]

And with Serck plates? C'MOOONNN!!!

[Guest]

And with Serck plates? C'MOOONNN!!!

 

Pete's did have Sercks all round, but the trailer we borrowed was so stupidly prom night - tight he crushed the front plate on the winch that robbed a good 6 inches of length at the front.

[Guest]

Whilst slightly whoring myself, here's a wee editorial lament on said machine:

 

http://blacktopmagazine.wordpress.com/2012/04/09/in-awe-of-the-604/

 

Rest of the site's a work in progress.

[Pete-M]

And with Serck plates? C'MOOONNN!!!

 

Pete's did have Sercks all round, but the trailer we borrowed was so stupidly prom night - tight he crushed the front plate on the winch that robbed a good 6 inches of length at the front.

 

A-haaaaa, not quite. The front Serck was already knackered when Spotted Laurel papped the 604 back in 2007.

 

[Pete-M]

350 miles into it. Which isn't bad going for the old blunderbus really.

 

The 604 has been parked at work for most of this week, irritating the hell out of the garage manager. "Y'know, Pete. Y'know I don't really 'get' most of your old cars, but that thing is particularly ugly. I just don't get it. But it started first time without any bother, which can't be bad". As some of the previous stuff I've abandoned there for days on end has been a pig to start at the best of times - 4.2 SD1 could be guilty of that if you didn't do things a particular way, some had had more security than the building itself - Senator, and others have had an insistence on being warmed up or throwing a megastrop - 528i.. the 604 is making him quite happy as it goes just by turning the bloody key.

 

Still haven't got around to changing the front valance, but I've used the Pug tonight and it does make me grin. It has a couple of little quirks, the passengers front electric window doesn't work (but the regulator does, I've checked the window isn't stuck with the 'emergency handle'), the glovebox lid has started vibrate at idle again despite me having adjusted it twice. It goes quiet for a few days and then it's back. The gear selector bush at the bottom of the selector is a bit worn, the T bar wobbles quite amusingly but it works perfectly. The rear shelf speakers are knackered and there's still dust here and there despite it being fully valeted and hoovered a few times.

 

One of the front brakes squeaks under cornering sometimes. It's not binding at all so I suspect it just needs new pads all round soon. The ones in it are sacrificial really. Need to do a permanent repair to one of the rear silencers. The boxes are fine, but the pipe leading into one of the silencers could do with replacing. I'm not gonna try and find a 604 exhaust system at the moment, otherwise it's fine.

 

The steering wheel is the wrong one. For some reason despite having a brown interior the steering wheel is blue, worn, and it's doing that thing where old Pug steering wheels mysteriously start to shed fluff... I reckon a 104 ZS wheel would look ace, but it's very wrong. I just find it the best looking Peugeot wheel from the time, and it's possible that it'll fit properly.

 

 

If anyone wants to take on this old bus, send me a PM with a decent offer. P/X possible if you've got something with a towbar.