Astra Mk1 in glorious poo-brown. SOLD

[Louise2cv]

I wasthinking about this yesterday...

 

When I had the 2cv there were only 2 occasions where I didn't have time/the inclination/was a bit out of my depth so I went to a local garage or two to ask if they'd do it. Both said they'd rather stick a rusty nail up the end of their wotsits than work on a 2cv.

 

I don't understand. You could get to everything on the 2cv. I find even taking the plugs out bit awkward on this thing.

 

What was the garage dudes problem?

 

In other news none of the local parts places stock condensers, but do stock points. I don't get this either.

[Cavcraft]

I honestly think it's an anti-Citroën thing with garages. Some of my local ones refused to go near any of the BXs I had, they must be scared of their supposed bad reputation.

 

Louise, perhaps it's worth making a list of what you need but can't find locally. I'm happy to try and source stuff and post them out and I bet a few others will too.

[alf892]

I would add a dizzy base plate to that list if the points are held in with a self tapper. If the self tapper is a bit too long it will stop the vacuum adv/retard mechanism working. Self tappers usually get used where someone has knackered the thread on the points screw by trying to tighten it like it holds the engine in. The self tapper is the 'repair'. Baseplates were pretty easy to obtain though..........

[Louise2cv]

Ta Cav, I've got the condenser from ebay, i'm just getting impatient to crack on with it.

 

I think Greengartside can get me a few bits from a scrapper, I might have to PM him and ask for a dizzy now too

 

edit cross posted!

[Louise2cv]

Right:

 

I've taken the carb apart and cleaned it as per Haynes.

I've renewed the points, obv checking gap and set the timing (using a strobe) (however could only do this with a bit of choke to get thing ticking over).

I've renewed plug leads 1234 but not the coil to dizzy lead.

I've cleaned and tightened the main earth strap from -ve battery terminal

I've cleaned the contacts on the coil, and the coil to dizzy lead.

 

Without using the choke, the car has manage one very lazy tickover for about 2 minutes, however it is just on the verge of stalling (the battery light stays lit and the oil pressure light flickers). If I "tickle" the acc pedal it will stall, I have to stamp on it to keep the engine running. Once it does reach normal revs (by having foot on pedal or using choke) the battery warning light does go out and oil pressure lamp stops flickering.

 

The interesting thing is the engine is now heating up. The temp gauge has never moved out of the blue, today it crept up to the third marker (one mark away from the red!!). Maybe this is because I jiggled the sensor wire, maybe not

 

The only thing I can think to now is change the condenser and the coil to dizzy lead. If that doesn't work I'm pushing the car into the cut. And it better work because I can't think where the nearest canal is

 

Any ideas?

[John F]

It still sounds like an ignition problem, Louise.

 

It's worth replacing the coil HT lead and condenser. Then is there anything else in the HT circuit you haven't replaced? Coil? Plugs?

[HillmanImp]

Sorry if this has been covered but the dizzy cap and rotor arm are okay arent they?

 

My experience of condensers going wrong would mean that that car would run fine for a bit and then cut out when the condender got too hot but dont really know how they actually work, its just my experience suggesting that.

[John F]

Also, have you thought of fitting an electronic ignition kit?

 

I got so sick of my ignition problems with my old Lightweight Land Rover that I fitted one of these... no more ignition problems at all afterwards

 

This kit might fit yours... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MK1-Astra-Ele ... 1e6b5b1b15

[Louise2cv]

Erm, yes forgot to add, plugs also new. Also won't affect this problem, but just to show I put some effort in it's even had a new air filter.

 

I will get the new coil/dizzy lead when I'm next in town, I'm going to stage a sit in at the parts shop if they try to fob me off.

 

I was wondering about the distributer cap and rotor arm... no sign of tracking (haynes says black lines??) no cracks and fairly clean. The brush(?) was a bit mangled but it was making contact with the rotor arm. Not happy with the function of the set screw selftapper bodge, but it'll have to wait.

 

Of course taking the carb apart means I've f*cked up the mixture and idle settings, but what can you do. If it ever runs again I might taking to a garage and get them to set with a gas analyzer.

 

Did wonder about electronic ignition, yes ta for the link. However, I'll need to get it running right first won't I??

[M'coli]

It should* be just a case of adjusting the idle speed and mixture screw. I try to remember how many "flats" or turns in and out of each screw I do so that I know if I'm back where I started! If, for example, you turn the idle "up" by 3 whole turns and it makes no difference, see if it will idle by lightly spraying (or burst-spraying) some easy-start into the carb and see if the idle will stabilise. It also shouldn't idle well without the choke until it's warmed up. Hope this helps!

[John F]

Erm, yes forgot to add, plugs also new. Also won't affect this problem, but just to show I put some effort in it's even had a new air filter.

 

I will get the new coil/dizzy lead when I'm next in town, I'm going to stage a sit in at the parts shop if they try to fob me off.

 

I was wondering about the distributer cap and rotor arm... no sign of tracking (haynes says black lines??) no cracks and fairly clean. The brush(?) was a bit mangled but it was making contact with the rotor arm. Not happy with the function of the set screw selftapper bodge, but it'll have to wait.

 

Of course taking the carb apart means I've f*cked up the mixture and idle settings, but what can you do. If it ever runs again I might taking to a garage and get them to set with a gas analyzer.

 

Did wonder about electronic ignition, yes ta for the link. However, I'll need to get it running right first won't I??

 

You haven't replaced the distributor cap & rotor arm?? I'd definitely do that then, they only cost a few quid each and they can certainly affect how the engine runs. I treat them as service parts on my old stuff (not the Maserati though, a new dizzy cap for that costs £150...)

 

You can fit electronic ignition to a badly-running engine though rather than go through the whole palaver with points & condensor for the nth time, just to get it set up before fitting the kit... that's what I did with my Landy

[Louise2cv]

Ok, I'll get the dizzy cap and rotor arm... the leccy ignition will have to wait til another day as OH will kill me. Spending £40 on the steering gubbins on Sunday too Most girls buy shoes.

[M'coli]

You can buy shoes too, if you like!!!

[John F]

You can buy shoes too, if you like!!!

 

[Louise2cv]

So, if I was a proper person and not some dumb bird fumbling around with next to no idea what she was doing, what would have been the right way of diagnosing the faulty part?

 

Surely replacing "all of the things" until it works again is not the way to do it?

[scaryoldcortina]

It isn't, but if it makes you feel better it is the method used by most amateurs and many garages.

[dollywobbler]

Well, it sort of is you know. Best thing to do with a new car is carry out a service - which involves replacing all of the ignition parts really. If you've no idea how old the rotor arm is, and if the dizzy cap looks a bit ancient, they're best included.

 

I know us 2CVers aren't used to rotor arms and dizzy caps, but they're pretty much consumable.

[John F]

So, if I was a proper person and not some dumb bird fumbling around with next to no idea what she was doing, what would have been the right way of diagnosing the faulty part?

 

Surely replacing "all of the things" until it works again is not the way to do it?

 

Ian's right in that it's always good to start from where you know all components are good or have been changed recently, but in future a methodical approach might be best.

 

Here's a flow chart stolen from the Internet as an example of fault-finding a non-running car:

 

[Louise2cv]

Cheers gang. To be fair, I did check the battery voltage and some stuff.

 

2cvs are way better than proper cars.

[Morgan84]

I had a problem on one of my cars which drove us to the point of insanity.The car would sometimes be a swine to start,for no apparent reason,yet other times would be fine.We had the carburettor rebuilt,set it all up and it ran well..... for a few miles,then was back to its old tricks of running fine,then would start to splutter,and need choke to keep going;this would be ok for a few yards until it would crawl to a standstill with sooted up plugs. We changed the carb for a substitute,and this was fine for a short while,and back to the same problem.The fuel pump was new,so we thought about new points ( again ) with rotor and cap ( again ),and even tried a substitute distributor;tried all of this,set timing and CO to factory settings,and it was lovely - for about 15 minutes !!

 

After scratching our heads,wondering what the hell was wrong ( engine had been rebuilt 2 years earlier ),and checking compressions,and valve clearances again,we were starting to think what was left to replace.In shear desperation,we thought " what hasn't been changed which could cause a problem " ... The ignition switch

 

Out of desperation,we put a new one in,and tried it... Cured the little bugger ! It was a faulty ignition switch causing the problems,which were giving all the symptoms of carburettor or ignition system faults

[Louise2cv]

That's something else that's already in the post! Thanks for the tip though!

 

It probably is you know, because we didn't have any probs before the AA man had to mess about because of the jammed ig barrel!

 

Still as has been said, it's well overdue a good service.

 

Plus despite getting frustrated, I have enjoyed myself.

[Morgan84]

Once you get it right,give it a good service,and keep it well maintained,changing oil and filter at 6000 mile intervals ( it's a older generation car,so will be on shorter intervals,plus oil is cheaper than metal ) and you should have a good fun reliable car.A vauxhall of that age will probably be on 15/40 mineral oil which was pretty much the norm back then,and looked like oil,unlike the modern cooking oil grade newer cars run on !

[purplebargeken]

Good to see a non-modded Mk1. My mate restored his Mk1 saloon and did a decent job of it. The write up was in a recent Practical Classics mag.

 

Ken

[garethj]

Don't worry about old cars being tricky to get running properly, newer cars can be the same except they need parts costing £250 each and the dealer charges £90 an hour.

[dollywobbler]

Don't worry about old cars being tricky to get running properly, newer cars can be the same except they need parts costing £250 each and the dealer charges £90 an hour.

 

Aye. As my f-i-l discovered when his Pug 307 started randomly cutting out. One dealer said "just ignore it" while another said "OMG DMF HDI KAOS" before plugging it into their computer and finding absolutely nothing at all wrong. £80 a pop for a diagnostics session, even if they find nothing wrong. I think they should be paid per problem found myself. Might cause all Citroen C6s ever built to be instantly scrapped mind...

[Louise2cv]

Yep, when I'm feeling down I just remember the headlamp bulb on the Audi.

 

I'm learning a lot and it's been good for getting over my fear of new things I was petrified of the carb, but it was actually quite easy. I was dreading the timing but that wasn't to bad once I'd worked out how to turn the engine by hand (took the plugs out and then was like.... errrrr ). Glad I kept my strobe after vowing never to have an old car again!

 

Just got to tackle the coolant change next, which still frightens me

 

Also the neighbours and passers-by all seem to be very impressed to say I haven't got the damn thing working yet. Hopefully I'm putting the children in the saxos and corsas who come and wheelspin off the pub carpark to shame too. No Halfords stick on carbonfiber effect shit here sonny...no spinny wheels either, but hey ho

[Morgan84]

Coolant change = remove the bottom radiator hose ( have a new clip for replacement ),drain it into a bowl ( or somewhere else suitable )

 

Reconnect the hose,and measure in fresh coolant at a 50/50 mixture.Yours will be fine with either blue or green coolant

 

Start the engine,and let the engine warm up,and every so often,release the coolant cap,and let the air out ( carefully ),and keep topping up to the max.Once its circulated round,and at a happy level,let the engine reach full operating temperature,and wait till the cooling fan cuts in.Then leave it to cool down,and recheck the coolant level

[dollywobbler]

I found with the BX that 'burping' the hoses by squeezing them really helped. Especially the heater pipes down the back of the engine.

[M'coli]

Coolant change = remove the bottom radiator hose ( have a new clip for replacement ),drain it into a bowl ( or somewhere else suitable )

 

Reconnect the hose,and measure in fresh coolant at a 50/50 mixture.Yours will be fine with either blue or green coolant

 

Start the engine,and let the engine warm up,and every so often,release the coolant cap,and let the air out ( carefully ),and keep topping up to the max.Once its circulated round,and at a happy level,let the engine reach full operating temperature,and wait till the cooling fan cuts in.Then leave it to cool down,and recheck the coolant level

Just as an aside, my experience of filling to the max and starting up usually ends up with coolant on the deck as the airlocks in the system heat up, expand and dump fresh, paid-for antifreeze out of the tank before the thermostat opens... I don't fill to the max anymore until the fan's kicked in.

[Louise2cv]

Well neither PartCo or the little old school Motor factors in Bangor stock single ignition leads, the best they could offer was ording another set and hoping it was right PartCo man did say the local VW specialist had the cable and crimps so I guess I'll have to go and flutter my eyelashes there.

 

I have a new dizzy cap on order and changed the rotor arm. It'll be a new car soon!

 

If none of this works, what next? Would valves and things need looking at?