mini vs. MINI

[PaykanHunter]

The recent reactions to the New Land Rover Defender thread has prompted me to start this new thread: mini vs. MINI

 

[M'coli]

This subject's been done to death on other fora. My only question would be: does the Countryman still have some 1st gear whine engineered into the gearbox as a tenuous link with the original?

[PaykanHunter]

I think that BMW is pushing it TOO FAR!!!... They need to look beyond the classic 1959 model for inspiration...

 

[fordpoplier]

[dollywobbler]

One is actually small and made bugger all money, the other is enormous and seems to pay its way in life quite happily, though the Germans are steadily trying to ruin the formula by making newer and uglier versions of the BIGI...

[Shep Shepherd]

One is a triumph of engineering, the other is a triumph of marketing.

[rml2345]

^

The best way of summing up the Mini vs. Bini.

[chaseracer]

To me, the Countryman is the only BINI that makes any practical sense at all. Of course, this may be because it is larger than the ADO17...

[PaykanHunter]

One is a triumph of engineering, the other is a triumph of marketing.

Very well put!

[overheadvalve]

Countryman is, to me spiritual sucessor to the Maxi! well it's the nearest in size, looks and glass area etc i think.

/\ /\ That post about a triumph ( ) of marketing is right, couldn't agree more.

 

On pre 2006 cars (iirc) the Chrysler engine is not that good, several cases of HGF early gearboxes are pants (cured for 2005, from then on it just clunks) Power steering pumps on early cars (pre 2005) were also pants, interior parts like door cards and the plastics don't wear very well. The service intervals are too long. The basic models are pretty basic with a casette player, ffs go into your local music shop and ask where the cassette's are! There is no rear anti roll bar on the ONE.

It does not rust too badly and will do 40+ mpg easily (ONE) if you don't drive it like you stole it.

.....Ask me how i know s w m b o . Yeah, thanks! never mind how many shite cars i could have got with 5.5k.

It's actually not bad at all to drive though, for modern shite and as for the fact that it's 1/2 again as big, it was alway's going to be really crash protection etc i suppose....

[pompei]

My first four cars were minis (one was only kept for a weekend) 2 x 850, 1 x 1000 and 1 x 1275. I had a lot of fun in them, despite the discomfort, noise, water leaks, cutting out when wet etc etc. I don't think I would have another - that thing about revisiting your past and ending up disappointed etc. I'd like a go in a fast Bini though. I know I'm swimming against the tide here but I quite like them despite the estate agent image. I'm told they are pretty fun too.

[Pete-M]

El Watanape and me were chatting about this very subject last night.

 

I had four old Minis over about three years. Didn't have them for long, but there were two 1275 GTs - one was bored out to 1480... - also a slidy window job with a 1380 in and a bog standard '72 850. They were fun when they worked properly, excellent fun to hustle around bends etc but the driving position is horrific, the ride is dire, they're noisy and only good on fuel if you don't thrash the nuts off them. I do like them, but only to go for the odd blast around a few lanes in. I wouldn't want to own one again. I've had proper cars since then.

 

The BMW Mini is a different proposition altogether. Bigger, heavier etc etc etc but a lot comfier, a lot quicker (I've only driven Cooper S jobs), quieter, better equipped etc. A new one would absolutely annihilate the old one at pretty much anything other than actually carrying four people. It's not a 'proper' Mini in the traditional sense, but it does take design cues from the original and has a similar kind of vibe to it. It's a 21st century interpretation of a trendy small(ish) car that drives and handles well. I would consider owning a well sorted early Cooper S.

 

There are similarities in other ways as well. Ford took apart an original Mini in the '60s and costed it. BLMC lost money on every one. When the new Mini came out BMW lost money on the first few thousand of them as well. Difference being, BMW knew how to deal with it and now the BMW Mini is a sought after 'brand' with early examples still fetching bloody good money. BL just kept making the old ones, pretty much unchanged for forty years. They did make the Clubman for a while, but to my eyes they're bloody ugly - so there's no change between old and new there either.

 

The old Mini's I owned back in the late '80s were nothing like the early BMW jobs I'm seeing around still. On my ones there were always a multitude of problems, interior door handles snapping, choke cables that needed a clothes peg to keep the bloody engine going, distributors that meant if the thing even suspected rain I was going nowhere, rusting subframes and A posts, engine mountings going wobbly, stay bars snapping, SU carb needles snapping against the bulkhead, buggered heater valves, exhaust blows and iffy brakes. Constantly fixing the bloody things I was. Yet I'm seeing Y reg and 51 plate 'Bini's that have never had a problem... and the ones that have it only tends to be the interior door cables or electric bloody power steering faults.

 

Yup, much as the old one is fun I doubt I'll buy another.

[504GL]

*Patiently awaits the slagging off the modern Fiat 500 thread*

[Guest]

The original Mini was a good car which was dragged out without sufficient improvement for way too long. They could have kept the appealing looks and upgraded to better engines, sorted out the chronic rot and reliability issues, generally improved the quality, but they didn't. About the only notable thing I can think of is that eventually the A-Series gained fuel injection. By the time it was phased out, it was pretty much a car for hardcore masochists only.

 

As much as the BMW Mini is a massive marketing gimmick, they are pretty well-engineered and a good drive, though for the price they bloody well should be. That 5-door one has a bloody ugly front though.

[theorganist]

I would love a five door one in Russett Brown!!

[overheadvalve]

I would love a five door one in Russett Brown!!

eh?

/\ /\ Have to agree with Pete-M and Hirst. Pity really but then that's what killed our car industry. No one gave enough of a toss enough to put some money into r&d.

[alf892]

It wasn't a case of no R&D.........after all the motoring public did loads of that for them.

 

They just didn't bother to fix the things that came up as a result of this R&D.

 

We (the British) were probably just too arrogant and thought that Johnny foriegner could never build a car that the british public would buy.

 

I still think a bit like that now.........

[chaseracer]

I would love a five door one in Russett Brown!!

I specced one up in that very hue on the 'Build your own BINI' thing on the website last night. Without going mentalist with the options (but ticking the auto box 'cos I'm turning into an old fart):

 

29 LARGE!!!

 

[Amazo]

I specced one up in that very hue on the 'Build your own BINI' thing on the website last night. Without going mentalist with the options (but ticking the auto box 'cos I'm turning into an old fart):

29 LARGE!!!

'Hello Money, can I introduce you to Old Rope...?'

[Pete-M]

Ok, so they're not cheap. BMW have turned Mini into a 'prestige brand' and even the oldest examples of Mini Ones are still making a few grand.

 

If the oldest ones are still worth good money then they'll hike up the prices of the new ones.

 

Having said that, I've just been playing with VW's car configuring thing and managed to get a Polo up to £24.3k, Citroen DS3 to £20k, Audi A1 up to £25k, and I stopped looking at the 1 series BMW as soon as I spotted that a top spec one with no options is £31k. A well specced A class is easily £28k.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

There are plenty of 2001/2002 Mini Ones in the auctions for £2500, still a lot of money for something which, on the face of it, isn't much better than a 206 or a Fester on paper. The original Mini was a great idea 50 years ago. I've had a few Mark 1's incuding two very nice Cooper S's and a nice early Mini - even a basic 850 - is a great thing to bomb around in when the weather is nice. As an everyday car thay are just shit, and have been taken on by society's misfits and weirdos. I have a few mates seriously into early Minis and they don't go to general Mini shows where the knobs dress up as Cybermen and turn up in striped Minis with chrome shit all over them and fluffy toys tie wrapped to the grille - you think I'm kidding. I'm not.

 

The BMW Mini started off as a great idea. The original (R50?) was quite a pert looking thing and had a reliable Chrysler 1600 engine, a dodgy Peugeot box and typically shit build quality. The next R56 was fattened up so that it looks like a fat bird wearing too-small jeans. BMW have indeed ruined the whole idea, but Britain isn't short of overpaid idiots who stump up for something you or I would consider laughable.

 

The original MINI Cooper S with the supercharged Chrysler engine is a decent car with a great deal of character - they're quick with a pretty hairy feel, a goodly bit of supercharger noise and handle well. Thirsty though.

The second one from 2006/7 is another very heavy turbo hatchback. The Cooper badge has been whored to death now and doesn't really mean a lot. The Clubfoot and Cuntryman versions (esp. the latter) are just ridiculous.