Rover 75

[Guest]

I don't think the Japanese had that much to do with the suspension on most Rovers, I recall with the R8 that Honda insisted on double wishbone suspension and Rover wanted MacPherson struts so they "agreed to disagree" on that part and did their own thing anyway.

[Rod/b]

Yep, the suspension was normally left to the Brits to sort out.

[Guest Len H]

Apart from the R8 MacPherson struts, all Rondas have Honda's often compromised suspension hardware.

Rover often did meddle with the suspension settings, the Rover 400 for example was well sorted.

[Rod/b]

...the Rover 400 for example was well sorted.

Compared to the Civic, maybe, but it was still shit.

[Formula Autos]

Rover 400s were pretty good for their time, dynamically. Maybe not best in class, but Rover did a good job there. They were just too expensive compared to the opposition really and, by the time the 45 came along, old looking. The MG ZR version was very good though - IMHO a GR8 handling FWD family hack. A bit 'Max Power' mind but, at the prices they fetch now, who cares?

 

As for the 75 (dragging us someway back on-topic for a while), the MG version (the ZT) would be a nice motor to tool around in. I've had a go in a friend's BMW dizzler engined one, which was bloody good. It felt fairly well put together too and had a weird (but nice) piano black wood dashboard. I would find it hard to say no to a ZT-T with the BMW dizzler lump if it came up at the right price.

[Guest Len H]

The regular 400 has a lovely ride but is slightly wallowy, the 420 petrol with rear ARB (why didn't they fit it to all models? ) had a lovely ride and excellent roadholding.

[dollywobbler]

Must agree. The 'Bubble' 400 does ride exceptionally well. I think I blogged about it on the old Austin-Rover website some years ago when I owned one.

 

Rover 75s are really catching my eye at the moment. Give me a year or two and I'll definitely have owned one. In fact, if my neighbour does decide to sell his, I might well be interested... (CDT Tourer).

[myglaren]

Lil was supposed to collect it today but couldn't log in to the insurers website to change her insurance.

Maybe tomorrow

[gtd2000]

ITS A HONDA ENGINE IN THESE INNIT, GO ON 4 EVA

 

It's a crying shame they didn't continue with the Honda partnership - always liked the look of the Rover 75 but not for me without the Japanese bits

 

S'funny that, I think they were one hell of a lot better without the Jap bits. Shame about the kettle series, but they were finally beginning to drive well and then they died. The 75 even has working suspension, something Rover hadn't got right since the P6.

 

I'm not really convinced "better" is being used in the conventional sense here - is this akin to the use of "character" with an old British or Italian motorcycle?

[Pete-M]

I'm not really convinced "better" is being used in the conventional sense here - is this akin to the use of "character" with an old British or Italian motorcycle?

 

Bizarre rambling theory warning.

 

They were more reliable with the Honda bits, but I really don't get on with Japanese switchgear at all so the Rondas always felt a bit strange to me. I know the old Montego stalks aren't brilliant, but there's something about the switch action and feel in cars that was somehow appropriate to each particular country of origin.

 

P6s have a fantastically over engineered feeling indicator switch.

SD1s have slightly shonky 70's BL indicator switches. You can feel the hate of Derek Robinson in 'em.

Fiats have funky styled but temperamental ones that work occasionally and sometimes snap.

The 604 (and any other Pug of that era) has a completely illogical wiper stalk - until you think French.

Jag indicator is smooth and effortless but somehow positive too. Cruise control switch is old skool BL tat somehow.

Jeep one feels like it is about to break, yet never actually does. Yank engineering.

Merc ones are incredibly logical and built to survive nuclear winters.

Escort ones obviously have some British engineering in them.

Rondas have Jap switchgear, it works but has nothing at all about it other than it operates the lights. No fun at all.

 

 

Then there's the ride / handling of the Rondas. Literally. You got either ride or handling, never both, and never on anything other than smoother roads than we get in the UK. Honda don't seem to do suspension travel. Rover did. BMW do.

 

The 75 could have been a proper success, but they still managed to cock it up in the end. The 75 is a nice car ruined by the absolute stupidity of the morons who ran Rover and the fear from BMW of an in-house rival. The 75 diesel is a decent car with a few little niggly faults that should never have been allowed to happen. Honda wouldn't have let these faults occur, but they would have made the bloody thing look like a Carina crossed with a Mitsuoka Viewt. I suspect once BMW looked at the books, and realised the extent of the K series saga they lost all interest in the 75s final development. They already wanted out.

 

The MG ZT was proof that if you give British engineers free rein and decent quality control they can build something to take on the world. Unfortunately, Pheonix were asset strippers who couldn't, and didn't have the inclination to, sort the K series warranty bills and the ZT was lumbered with K engines.

 

The ZT-T 260 is one of my favourite cars of all time to drive. Possibly Top 5. Wonderful thing. Not super quick, but felt so well sorted and 'right' I know I will eventually buy one and just keep the thing forever. Why couldn't MG Rover have done more like that?

[gtd2000]

The sad part is, why can't we simply build a car that's as reliable as the Japanese?

 

Skoda seems to be the only Euro manufacturer that comes close to achieving that sort of reliability - so what does Skoda do, that Volkswagen can't... in that case?

[dollywobbler]

I'd argue that we can build reliable cars. Don't forget, quite a lot of cars are still produced in this country. Ford builds engines here - not sure about Nissan, Toyota and Honda. Ok, Land Rover always feature down the bottom of the reliability lists - ridiculous given the quality market they're aiming at.

 

Pete - you're absolutely spot on about switchgear. I never liked the Honda stalks. They have a horrible feel to them. They seem to crack rather than click. One thing I love about my Rangie is the Montego-esque stalks. However, I'd still argue that the MG ZS/Rover 400 has an excellent ride/handling package. I'd rate it at least level with my Peugeot 306, which was excellent in both departments. I've still never driven a 75, but very much want to.

 

Returning to stalks, the Alfa Romeo 164 has the nicest 'feel' I've ever encountered. Very surprising for an Italian make.

[messerschmitt owner]

I believe the figure is 400,000 vehicles per annum in the UK - not bad, and some must be reliable. Think of Micras, for example - and think of how many K10 and K11 models are still running.

[Rocket88]

I do like 75s. Had a v6 2 litre one fo a bit, and it was lovely. Unfortunately, although the interior was clearly based on the drawing room from Windsor castle, it seemed to clash with the engine, which needed revving hard to make decent progress. Surely some long stroke torque monster would have been far more in keeping with the interior?

[AnthonyG]

I had a 2.0 V6 as well , and can concur it was rather noisy once above about 2500 rpm. I suspect the 2.5 was a engine more suited to the car. Diesels can be made to release more power, the aforementioned 'Rover Ron' does this. The 75 owners club forum was good when I used it 2 years ago.

 

http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/