This ain't no substitute for a Disco

[Peter C]

Some of you may know that I went to look at a sub £1k 1995 LR Discovery earlier this week. As charming as it was, the thing was actively rusting in front of me and was already quite tired with 208k miles on the clock.

 

I went to see this today:

 

 

I was hoping it would be a good Disco alternative, but I walked away disappointed. It was an R-reg 2.2 16V petrol manual LWB version, with 84k miles, 6 months MoT, short tax, up for £999 via EBay.

 

Compared to the old Disco, the Frontera was actually in good condition. Aside from slight bubbling around the bottom of the doors and arches, it was solid. The engine started first time and ran well, with no smoke or rattles. The interior was very clean and all the electrics worked. This looked promising! Unfortunately, the driving position was awful. Where as in the Disco it feels like you're sitting in a large spacious 4x4, high up with great visibility, in the Frontera I felt cramped with every control too far and low away. This being the post facelift version, it has the newer dash, which would be ok if I was sitting in front, rather than on top of it.

 

Compared to the Disco the Frontera drove very well. The ride was good with no pitching or bouncing and the steering felt almost direct. The 2.2 four revved eagerly and the old bus felt like it could keep up with traffic. The gearchange and brakes were almost car like. I've done a bit of research and apparently the 2.2 engine is a thirty beast.

 

If the driving environment was more special and less cramped, I would have had it. A few minor faults aside it wasn't a bad buy for £999, but one thing it ain't is a substitute for a Disco.

 

I'll keep looking.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

Fronteras are the ultimate vehicle for mouth-breathers around here who buy a 4x4 for the winter even though they're useless in the snow, Pajeros and Shoguns a close second.

 

I actually don't mind Fronteras, especially all the gauges in the instrument panel. One fitted with a 2.8TD Isuzu lump and with no previous grunting mong owners would be fine.

[pogweasel]

2.0 pez (cavalier/carlton) ones have enough gruff to play about in the muck if you want without be as horrendous on fuel. The 'sport' version is popular with the big-wheel checkerplate mongs about here.

[dollywobbler]

I quite like the Frunterrors. You're right about the driving position though. It's very much like being in a saloon, but higher up.

[Guest Leonard Hatred]

One fitted with a 2.8TD Isuzu lump and with no previous grunting mong owners would be fine.

 

+1

 

Its actually an old 80s Isuzu underneath.

 

Very similar to the Isuzu TF/KB/whatever they were calling it in year x pick-up. I've seen one fitted with a Frontera front end on eBay.

[Cavcraft]

I wouldn't run a 2.2 pezzer, too many scare stories about self detonating engines.

 

2.0 petrol or 2.8 dizzlers are the only real option. Or get a 2.3 diesel if you fancy doing 11mph flat out and smoking out half of the Western hemisphere. Fajeros aren't too bad to be fair, at least not in 2.8TD form, but they do have that lucky clothes peg seller/flashy Essex gobshite aura about them.

[barrett]

Sorry, but all I can think of is this now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXgMhnI3QOI&feature=related

[forddeliveryboy]

Disco=modern classic. Loads of H, J, K reg ones in daily round us, workin hard. Rear floors go but repair section apparently £5.50 from main stealer.

[Pete-M]

If all you want is a 4x4 that'll do winter and isn't horrific to drive, get a Grand Cherokee.

 

Other than mine having dire steering (a fair few ball joints past their best) it's not a bad old shed. Great stereo as well. On LPG it's about as economical as a diesel Disco (if your idea of economy is working out how far you can go for so much money).

 

Not massively expensive. You could find one like mine for about £1300.

 

 

Interior is Yank bad, but much better than a Disco / Pajikey / Fronterror.

 

[trigger]

Have you thought about looking at one of these?, I like them and i know a guy who used to tow tractors all over the UK behind his 2.7 LWB without ever having a problem.

 

Here's a few for £1k or less.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-FORD-MAVERIC ... 3f074ea8b0

 

2.7 LWB, nice colour, a few blingy bits, a bit leggy on 180k but long T=T for £950 BIN

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-FORD-MAVERIC ... 35afed7421

 

2.7 LWB, decent mileage, years mot, former owner was Stevie Wonder £950 BIN

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1995-FORD-MAVERIC ... 27b8818b65

 

2.7 LWB, Short T+T but leather for £975 BIN or offers.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1997-Ford-Maveric ... 3cb4cdeb5a

 

Slightly over budge but still 2.7 SWB

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/97-Ford-Maverick- ... 3f07263e15

 

I won't touch this one those as it sounds like it's been driven by a bunch of bellends.

[pdg]

 

Interior is Yank bad, but much better than a Disco / Pajikey / Fronterror.

 

 

 

How is that better than a Disco interior? Just possibly, maybe, on a good day with a blurry pic on a par with the 200 series but 300s (and late v8) are lovely in comparison... Mine even has the right amount of pedals in the right hand side footwell. I am sadly lacking the plastic wood trim though, that would probably have been an option mine missed.

[Pete-M]

 

How is that better than a Disco interior? Just possibly, maybe, on a good day with a blurry pic on a par with the 200 series but 300s (and late v8) are lovely in comparison... Mine even has the right amount of pedals in the right hand side footwell. I am sadly lacking the plastic wood trim though, that would probably have been an option mine missed.

 

It all works, for a start. As for the right number of pedals, I massively prefer my 4x4s to be automatic.

 

My photography skillz were honed on ebay, so piss off

 

Here's a pic of the Disco's equivalent tupperware trim

 

[forddeliveryboy]

Once drove a Cherokeet, it may have been a spectacularly bad one but no matter what you did to a Disco, bar sawing its chassis in two, would make it as orrid as that thing. I love the original Conran Disco interior, best of the lot. Saw a 09 Defender dashboard the other day though, you've got to laugh. Sad how nobody in the engineering dept dares say what they think. Return to the style of the Series 2 dash and I bet sales would rise instantly, so long as the heater worked well and they put a few more numbers on the speedo.

[Peter C]

I am sorry Pete-M but a Jeep like yours just doesn't do it for me.

 

And I know why! I want something utilitarian that is (relatively) comfortable but basic at the same time. Ideal spec:

 

Front mounted diesel engine, rear wheel drive

Manual gearbox

5 door estate body shape

No thrills which means no airbags, a/c, leather interiors, electric windows, mirrors, sunroofs.... and all that other nonesense that tends to go wrong.

Simple to fix. I want to fiddle with nuts and bolts not circuit boards and wires.

 

With the above in mind, a nice Disco 200/300 would be perfect for me. It is relatively comfortable but retains that back to basics engineering feel and early ones come without the electric crap I don't like.

 

I've looked at Mavericks and Terranos but they are too small. That said, I haven't driven one.

 

Peter C

[pdg]

I like beige in some cars but it shouldn't be put in a disco... It's just wrong, how can it hide mud/oil/turds? Would be fine if you could hose them out like a series.

 

Everything in mine works, but then it is absolute poverty spec so the only thing to go wrong is the driver (deliberate measure) - the airbag makes the steering wheel 'orrible, I've not got one of them either.

 

At least someone likes autos - keeps them away from me

 

I advise everyone to not buy a disco - tell everyone you know not to as well. That should drive the prices down so I can get a couple more

 

 

 

*Discos have full time 4x4, not rear drive default with selectable 4x4... Mine's a late 300 and still has very little electrickery - just got to be choosy (or handy with the snips)

[garethj]

And I know why! I want something utilitarian that is (relatively) comfortable but basic at the same time. Ideal spec:

 

Front mounted diesel engine, rear wheel drive

Manual gearbox

5 door estate body shape

No thrills which means no airbags, a/c, leather interiors, electric windows, mirrors, sunroofs.... and all that other nonesense that tends to go wrong.

Simple to fix. I want to fiddle with nuts and bolts not circuit boards and wires.

Volvo 740 had the 6 cylinder MAN diesel I think? Ticks all your boxes other than they've often got leather and electric windows, mirrors and sunroofs. However they all work on my ancient 740, and judging by the size of the wires and connectors they'll still work in 20 years too. A 940 or 960 diesel would probably be speedier but more expensive when it goes wrong.

 

Also consider a Pug 505 estate if you can find one that isn't on a boat to Nigeria

[garethj]

I advise everyone to not buy a disco - tell everyone you know not to as well. That should drive the prices down so I can get a couple more

Prices are already as low as possible, shirley? Especially considering how knackered a Defender would be for the same money.

 

£1000 Discovery will hopefully pass the next MoT, £1000 Defender will be collected with dustpan & brush

[pdg]

I advise everyone to not buy a disco - tell everyone you know not to as well. That should drive the prices down so I can get a couple more

Prices are already as low as possible, shirley? Especially considering how knackered a Defender would be for the same money.

 

£1000 Discovery will hopefully pass the next MoT, £1000 Defender will be collected with dustpan & brush

 

 

 

Prices are nowhere near where they should be. £1000 really should buy a *very* smart disco 1 with a years ticket and a good chance of getting the next one. A 'project' one 'should' be around the £150 mark.

 

Defenders have always been ridiculous with prices, half a grand should get a good'un. Massively overpriced for what they are.

 

Everything is overpriced in my mind now though - I just don't want to catch up...

[forddeliveryboy]

Oh dear, here we go again.

 

"Land Rovers aren't what they used to be. They've got (too much) interior trim. They should start making bobby basic motors with no twiddly bits. They'd really sell loads then."

 

The kind of people who buy new cars like a bit of flash.

 

There's no where near enough enthusiast/anorak types to support the company (as if they'd even consider a new car anyway).

The Santana PS10 died a death. That should tell you everything.

the script in speech marks is your words, not mine!

 

I don't think the Defender is bought just by flash-car-seeking poseurs, alot of farmers still buy them new - surprising as it may seem. And for the poseurs, almost any design would be better than the mess of a dash it has currently - both ergonomically and aesthethically. I wasn't suggesting a vehicle without abs, aircon, bluetooth, tc etc but just something with a little style. It's only the sheep-like tendencies of sales depts and their power over everyone else which makes it impossible to sell wind-open air vents as well as 'climate control'. As with many vehicles, the styling of the LR has become more of a mess as the years have gone by. You can see this with many older vehicles and their values, and people often seek out the ultimate, old body combined with later running gear. Because it's usually the un-messed about original which is the most aesthetic and pleasing. You've only got to look at a Citroen DS dashboard and how it was ruined down the years.

 

All it will take is a marketing 'genius' to realise that now people know nothing other than fully-loaded cars, the idea of simplicity - if well executed - may well sell (it always has) and make more profit to boot. For years it has been gizmos and extras which have made the money, everything goes in circles, not least fashion. Look at how car radios used to have 101 tiny buttons on them until someone realised the public beyond the teenager just wanted a large, rotary volumke knob and some simple decent sized buttons. As vehicles become more of a consumer good like a tv - use it, when it breaks throw it away - then fashion, and reliability, will become even more important. With electronics there's no need for a dashboard to resemble a control centre even when there's a plethora of gizmos - and complexity doesn't suit everybody.

 

As for the Santana, I'm not sure what you're trying to say. There's an informed debate here: http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=34542

[Station]

My old workmate was gutted when they downgraded him from a Subaru Forester to a Discovery! He was a farmer with decades of 4x4 experience. Can't see them being any less than 1k though. Surely you can get a Frontera for much less than a grand?

[trigger]

I saw a Santana last year at a show, I quite liked it.

 

2006 Santana PS-10 2.8TD Storm4orce by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

 

2006 Santana PS-10 2.8TD Storm4orce by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr

[TagoraSX]

What about an Isuzu Trooper with the 3.1TD engine?

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/ ... ?logcode=p

[Pete-M]

*Discos have full time 4x4, not rear drive default with selectable 4x4... Mine's a late 300 and still has very little electrickery - just got to be choosy (or handy with the snips)

 

My Heep has full time 4x4 as well. Quadra Trac they call it. Crap system compared to the one found in Discos.

 

No thrills which means no airbags, a/c, leather interiors, electric windows, mirrors, sunroofs.... and all that other nonesense that tends to go wrong.

 

All the electrical gubbinery in my Heep works perfectly. That, bizarrely, is one thing they're very good at in my experience. Although to be fair, all the electrickery worked in my last P38a - so Land Rover must have semi got the hang of it when Ford bought 'em. Other than the clock display and occasionally the CD player it all works as it should in the Jag too.

 

Actually, now I think about it, it all works in the 604 as well. That has fuel injection, four electric windows, central locking (although that's pneumatic) an electric sunroof, a global closure thingy and lots of electrics for its age, it's all 26 years old and still going strong.

 

I think people worry far too much about electronics. Yeah, simple is good, but the one car I have which has wind up windows has a dodgy window regulator.

[Peter C]

£1000 really should buy a *very* smart disco 1 with a years ticket and a good chance of getting the next one. A 'project' one 'should' be around the £150 mark.

 

Are you sure?

 

I've been glued to EBay for the past two weeks and I can report that within a 50 mile radius of my postcode £1k buys a tired, rusty old Disco with a short or no MoT. Anything with 12 months MoT is £2k or more. As for a £150 project car, the cheapest rusty non-MoT'd Disco I've seen in my 'hood is £500. If you find me a tidy manual + diesel Disco with 12 months MoT for a grand, I'll have it!

 

That Trooper looks ok but I would need to test and drive it. Sadly it is located 152 miles from my house.

 

A Volvo diesel estate, providing it has a manual 'box, could be an idea.

 

I wouldn't mind a Merc W124 estate. Trouble is that they hold their prices and a nice diesel estate costs ££££. Also, I've once had a bad experience with the estate's self levelling rear suspension, which costs big money to put right. Also, the rear hatch self closer mechanism can give trouble and that costs big bucks to fix.

 

I don't wish to sound like a snob, but, whilst I am not image concious, I couldn't drive anything too pikey. The last two Fronteras that I've seen were driven by the types that live bang in the middle of a dodgy council estate.

[Jozza]

Tayne is spot on about the whole 'Land Rovers aren't what they used to be' brigade- someone probably said that back in 1950 (?) when the 80-inch's headlights first emerged from behind the grille ("Lights outside the grille? Where they'll be damaged? It's not a proper Land Rover, it's just a no-good towny posing machine...").

 

People in beaten up Range Rover Classics said the same thing when the Disco came out, despite the fact that underneath the Austin-Rover partsbin bodywork they are the same vehicle.

 

The only upside of the Santana PS-10 (definite 4x4 shite of the future, especially the naff-looking Iveco version) is that they've done what Land Rover should have done 20+ years ago i.e. made the back door slightly wider and the wheel boxes slightly smaller so you can actually load stuff into the back. The PS-10 will take a pallet through the door, and the only Defender that will do that is an HCPU.

 

The current Defender interior really is an ergonomic mess and it's painfully obvious that it was designed on a budget of about £3.65. Seeing the Disco 3 instrument pod and the Transit centre panel (with Rover 800 window switches) 'matched' with the original 1988 door cards, the original steering column shroud (with Austin Ambassador column stalks and a blanking plug for a choke knob 17 years after you could by a Defender with a choke) just looks tacky.

 

What they need to do is try and recreate the Series II (or maybe a trim-less Series III look) along similar lines to the current Fiat 500. It looks like body-coloured metal dashpanels, it's wipe clean, stain resistant and could be made hose-down-able, but it won't take off your kneecaps in a crash.

[chaseracer]

I like beige in some cars but it shouldn't be put in a disco... It's just wrong...

I passed a pov/shite-spec 53-plate Disco 2 on the M6 on Saturday. Off-white/beige and running steels, it looked the dogs

[Geep]

My own Fronty sport has a driving position that 'isn't quite there'. I like the thing but I always seem to want to fiddle with the seat position or steering wheel position then put it back because it felt no better. Wonder if height adjustable seats would help Other than that it does all I want of it. The fuel consumption on the 2.0 can be a bit high but then it's a heavy old beast with brick like aerodynamics.

 

The 2.2 seems to have a weak bottom end so a 2.8 diesel or the 2.5 VM diesel would be a good choice. They are cheap for 4x4 though and generally well equipped. Have you looked at the series 2 Frontera? 1999 on and available with a 2.2 diesel. Pump can be a problem on them but may suit you more? Not too expensive now either.

[CIH]

surely an earlier LWB with the ancient 2.4CIH motor would be the shite of choice ?

[ChinaTom]

Being a Merc man already, have you thought about a G-Wagon?

[ChinaTom]

Blimey, had no idea how much they went for! Mind you, it may be cheap in the long run if it appreciates. Spend 10k, have your fun and sell for 10k seems to be worst case scenario.