LCBL - Renault Avantime

[richykitchy]

On 16/09/2025 at 13:21, angle said:

Think that might be @richykitchy?

God no!

[Patent]

So this has sat immobile for the last few months unable to start. It just suddenly stopped one day, no clicking, completely dead.

I took the opportunity of the milder weather to take about replacing the starter today. It is, of course buried behind at the bottom of the engine. The workshop manual states you need to drop the pre-cat to get access, but the flange was blocked by the exhaust manifold and I didnt fancy disasembling half the engine to do this. Other guides say it's possible to do by dropping the oil, removing the oil filter and various heat shields, which is the route I took.

After 3 hours of testing my flexibility, I got the starter off the block and began trying to unclip the loom to give me enough slack to disconnect the wired. I noticed a random connector clipped above the gearbox with nothing attached. It quickly became clear this was the feed from the ignition switch and was the reason it died suddenly with no further noise. With a bit of fishing around I found the mangled remains of the other end of the wire, wrapped in insulating tape, but missing the connector plug. It's clear this has been bodged back together previously and has now failed again.

It's now clear why the old dear said "oh good it started" on the day I collected it!

Red circle is the connector feeding the starter. Orange circle is the remains of the other end of the connector, going up to the fuse box.

I was going to give up and get an auto electrician, but I'd also like to learn to do some of this stuff properly. 

My question is, I have enough slack in the red bit to chop the connector off and make a new connection, but there is absolutely no slack or working space up where the orange bit is.
If I trace this cable back, is it safe / advisable / clever to insert a bridging piece of cable, jointed with heat-shrink butt joints? Is there another way? Is the ignition wire high current? It doesn't look it?

All advice gratefully received. I am an enthusiastic idiot and would like to fix as much as I can myself, as my time is free and I am learning!

[Mr Pastry]

In principle, yes.

If it is the cable from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, it is not "high current" but the bridging cable should be the same cross-section, i.e. thickness, or larger, to carry the same current.   You will have to pull the orange bit through to somewhere you have access to work on it, and check that it does indeed go to the starter solenoid.   You may be able to replace it entirely rather than using a bridging piece, depends what the other end is like, probably a spade connector so would need a crimping tool. 

Not clear what you mean by heat shrink butt joints.   Simplest way would be to use choc block connectors of suitable size, strip the ends of the cables far enough for the copper bits to overlap inside the connector so they are both gripped by both screws, make sure they are tight and then wrap with insulting tape.  Crimp connectors plus heat shrink or tape would make a better job, arguably.

 

[Patent]

This is the kind of connector I was thinking of:

Halfords Link

I think I can get access from above if I remove the air box. I'm assuming it's the inition wire before the loom it goes into terminates completely at the starter 

[Mr Pastry]

8 minutes ago, Patent said:

This is the kind of connector I was thinking of:

Halfords Link

I think I can get access from above if I remove the air box. I'm assuming it's the inition wire before the loom it goes into terminates completely at the starter 

Don't they need crimping as well?  A chock block connector has the advantage that you can undo it if it doesn't work.

[Patent]

4 minutes ago, Mr Pastry said:

Don't they need crimping as well?  A chock block connector has the advantage that you can undo it if it doesn't work.

I'm happy to get all the kit to crimp if that's a better way. The connection seems to float a bit behind the radiator so would like it to be as waterproof as I can get it. But very good point about having to re-do it. I'll start with chock blocks to make sure it all works

[robt100]

In principle, what you want to do will work fine. As @Mr Pastry has suggested, Id start using a choc block as a 'quick connection' to confirm the theory that this is the issue. Then if it works, make the permanent fix with the heat shrink crimp connector (which will need a crimping tool, but tbh, if you can get a bunch of crimp heat shrink connectors and a crimping tool you're then sorted for any future electrical fixes, it is a french car after all). 

[vaughant]

Use a wago connector to test as it's even easier than a chock block, just clip up the bar and add the wire in and wire out to it. DON'T do what I did when I first used one and connect all the wires into the 6 wago block and wonder why the machine is doing all sorts of weird bollox  then checking that it's a 6 way block but they're ALL connected to each other🙄🙄.

Well worth having a few for anything car related. I'd personally try and get a really good crimp on it using a ratchet cripmer, not one of those £3 ones, and heat shrink it over as no doubt being french that wire will go via the ECU and when you solder it, it will then fail catastrophically 🤣🤣🤣.

I'd be a bit reluctant to solder it on the exhaust side as well as it gets hot and oily around there.

[Patent]

Critical thing here is that to get the starter out, I needed to drop the oil and oil filter. Engine is currently empty and I have new oil and filter to go in.

If I wire up my proof of concept, but with the starter hanging down (not attached to the block), will it spin in mid air or will it kick and trash around? If the latter I can probably cable tie it to various bits to stop it causing any damage. I just want to check it does work before reassembly

[Mr Pastry]

6 hours ago, Patent said:

Critical thing here is that to get the starter out, I needed to drop the oil and oil filter. Engine is currently empty and I have new oil and filter to go in.

If I wire up my proof of concept, but with the starter hanging down (not attached to the block), will it spin in mid air or will it kick and trash around? If the latter I can probably cable tie it to various bits to stop it causing any damage. I just want to check it does work before reassembly

Remember it won't work without an earth connection, but potentially it will kick and thrash around, so strap it to something .  Or just reassemble it, as it seems very likely that the motor is okay and the wire is the problem.  You can get the filter off again if you need to if you don't overtighten it, and I can't see why you would need to drain the oil, surely that doesn't get in the way?   It will probably be fine.

[Patent]

6 hours ago, Mr Pastry said:

   It will probably be fine.

Good point about the earth! I'll stick it all back together together and go see about some connectors and cable 

[Heidel_Kakao]

You could use a jump lead to earth it if you did want to test it before refitment.

[Patent]

That tiny bar on the rev counter confirms we are back in business!

I need to tidy up and properly waterproof the connections, but it's alive again. Thanks @Mr Pastry for your guidance 

[High Jetter]

Great result!

You did refill the engine with oil first, I hope...

[Patent]

1 hour ago, High Jetter said:

Great result!

You did refill the engine with oil first, I hope...

Ha yes I checked the level about 4 times before restarting too!

The old stuff was pretty black so probably not the worst thing to have it freshened up. There's a list of other repairs I need to do, but at least I can move it around and drive it again whilst I check those off

[Patent]

I've spent some of the colder months undoing some of the sticky plastic. The soft-touch plastics in these go off like they do in most cars of this age. There isn't a lot of it, but it is on all the regular touch points like the window controls, radio cover and ignition barrel. I've taken into removing all the black stuff and re-covering with rubberised plasti-dip. There's probably a better fix but the plasti-dip still feels soft and looks presentable.

Before:

After:

One of my window switches was a bit sticky, so ordered a replacement from ebay. Turns out whilst the switch packs are all identical, the loom ends all have ever-so-slightly different locating channels for seemingly no reason. I disassembled the packs and now they all work nicely again.

Other than this I now have a gearbox issue. It's a 6-speed manual , and since I bought it, 2nd gear has always been a bit "snickety" in that it felt very mechanical moving from 1st - 2nd. It now crunches gears going 1-2 and 2-3, but only on the upshift. On the downshift it's completely fine. When it warms up it improves, but doesn't disappear. Its also completely fine with a double-declutch.
I can see underneath that it's definitely had a leak from the gearbox drain plug. It also had a new clutch less than 5k miles ago. The workshop manual is very clear that it's not a fill-to overflow type gearbox, you have to replace with exactly 2.2 litres.

I am hoping the garage that replaced it either topped up the box to overflow, or used the wrong oil. I have some of the right oil on order from OPIE so hoping that cures my woes, otherwise I'll be on the search for a used box. 

[Brigsy]

Nice job on the plastics, the clios are the same soft touch and its usually stripped off and left. The plastidip looks more oem.

What gearbox is it, pk or ndo? Use oem renault gear oil, elf nfx. Ive had a couple of bad shifters with incorrect/non oem oil in, going back to oem improved the issue. 

Clutch bled correctly also?

If its an ndo or pk, you would struggle to overfill it. Usually pissing out of the fill hole before 2.2ltrs.

[Patent]

8 minutes ago, Brigsy said:

What gearbox is it, pk or ndo? 

It's a PK6. I luckily found the NFX stuff after some research. The Clio v6 forum seems to be a good source of engine knowledge.

I had to phone the Renault earlier for a trim piece for my friend's symbioz and thought I'd price check the gearbox oil in case I could just collect it all at once. He asked me for the reg of the car to verify it was the right oil and obviously the model popped up on screen and he just said "oh god" hahah

It's interesting that it overflows on these, there's a post on the Laguna forum where you make a dipstick out of a wiper blade to check the levels 😂. At 105k miles or whatever, an oil refresh won't hurt, plus it's definitely leaking, so I hope this cures it

[Bear]

So nice to see one of these with the right engine getting some love.

FWIW I changed my rev counter lighting in about 20 minutes with a 6mm (I think) socket filled with bluetack and a little thumbwheel driver. Just reached up behind the dash. Was a while ago and I did swear at it a couple of times, but worth it!

[Patent]

2 minutes ago, Bear said:

So nice to see one of these with the right engine getting some love.

FWIW I changed my rev counter lighting in about 20 minutes with a 6mm (I think) socket filled with bluetack and a little thumbwheel driver. Just reached up behind the dash. Was a while ago and I did swear at it a couple of times, but worth it!

I can't believe you did this! Even with the dash off I barely managed. I then tried it from below as I figured some sunlight from the top would help, but I didn't have the dexterity!

It turns out the rev counter could be removed with only two more bolts, bit hopefully I never have to try again!

[Brigsy]

11 minutes ago, Patent said:

It's a PK6. I luckily found the NFX stuff after some research. The Clio v6 forum seems to be a good source of engine knowledge.

I had to phone the Renault earlier for a trim piece for my friend's symbioz and thought I'd price check the gearbox oil in case I could just collect it all at once. He asked me for the reg of the car to verify it was the right oil and obviously the model popped up on screen and he just said "oh god" hahah

It's interesting that it overflows on these, there's a post on the Laguna forum where you make a dipstick out of a wiper blade to check the levels 😂. At 105k miles or whatever, an oil refresh won't hurt, plus it's definitely leaking, so I hope this cures it

Its been a while since i filled a pk, but i think you would do well to massively overfill. Ndo your lucky to get the required amount in !

The pk is fussy oil wise, i used some fuchs gear oil in a mk3 meg rs years ago and it went from changing gear nice to hard to select gear. I ended up refilling with nfx and it was back to acceptable. The pk's however do go wrong so might not be the fix.

[Bear]

11 minutes ago, Patent said:

I can't believe you did this! Even with the dash off I barely managed. I then tried it from below as I figured some sunlight from the top would help, but I didn't have the dexterity!

It turns out the rev counter could be removed with only two more bolts, bit hopefully I never have to try again!

I wriggled into the footwell and reached up past the column and wiring with the socket in fingertips, found the back of the bulb carrier - I think three from memory? I did them blind one at a time.

Oh, and I wrote it up...

https://www.geextreme.com/cars/car-technology/avantime-tips-rev-counter-bulbs/

[Patent]

3 minutes ago, Brigsy said:

The pk's however do go wrong so might not be the fix.

I'm fully prepared for a bad outcome but willing to take the chance for the price of the oil. Hopefully the next update is one of silky changes and happiness 

[Patent]

1 minute ago, Bear said:

I wriggled into the footwell and reached up past the column and wiring with the socket in fingertips, found the back of the bulb carrier - I think three from memory? I did them blind one at a time.

Oh, and I wrote it up...

https://www.geextreme.com/cars/car-technology/avantime-tips-rev-counter-bulbs/

This was the exact guide I tried to follow first!

I couldn't get my hand in the right place at all. But in all honesty it was this guide that gave me confidence that there was enough support out there to remedy most of the common faults, so thank you!

[Bear]

Maybe there's more stuff in the way on the V6?

[Patent]

A bumper update on this, as I realised that Rustival is fast approaching and it wasn't really driveable. So a catalogue of various non-essential repairs before finally getting around to the one that matters.

First up: Plastics

These have some early-2000s soft touch plastic that eventually goes all sticky, picks up dirt and is generally unpleasant. Some photos I took of the previous state:

Disassembly is a bit hairy because the plastic is now incredibly brittle and nearly impossible to source replacements, so you have to take extra care. Some members here helped by recommending a few fixes, which has now resulted in a much improved state of affairs:

Second up: Pollen Filters

These have two pollen filters, supposedly mounted in a compartment on each side of the windscreen, both of which are fiddly to remove. The heater motor resister for the HVAC is cooled by the fresh incoming air, and is no longer available to buy. If you don't replace the filters it overheats and dies, so thought it was good to get this done. On removing both access flaps you are greeted with this:

Where is the filter? Diagonally braced in the void in a way that's impossible to see without a camera. Passenger side was easy. Driver's side doesn't feel like it's seated at all but now I know where it is I will try to re-seat it again once I have more time. One filter in-situ:

Old filter with 2008 date code. This date stamp roughly coincides with when the original owner had an Austrian Renault dealer change the cambelt and perform a full service whilst on holiday. We assume the UK dealers in the service book never saw it as worth bothering with!

  

Third & Final: Gearbox Oil

Earlier in the thread I noted a new problem where I was getting crunching on upshifts to second and third. It had a new clutch and flywheel 2-3k miles ago but there's an obvious gearbox leak from the sump, and there's a huge sticker on the gearbox saying it's not a fill-to-overflow type. I hoped it was a case of oil too high, too low, or the wrong oil. I found the right stuff for sale and set about it at the weekend:

  

It's only meant to take 2.2l of oil and I drained approximately 4l. Whatever came out was also the wrong colour. Pumping 2.2 litres of 75W oil through a tiny syringe was hard work, but I got there in the end. Pleased to report that full gearbox performance has resumed, so I took it for a celebratory lap and some executive petrol!

 

 

 

 

[Brigsy]

Great job on the plastics. What did you use on them?

[Patent]

6 minutes ago, Brigsy said:

Great job on the plastics. What did you use on them?

Trial and error!

On the bits which were beige plastic underneath, only 99% alcohol worked which ruined the skin on my hands.

On the bits that were black plastic painted beige I was able to use bicarbonate of soda and/or a flash magic eraser which saved my my skin but made a mess of my kitchen.

Spray paint was from Martin Brown Paints with a matt lacquer, and lots of p1200 in between to keep it nice and smooth