Collecting a mini, now rust rust and more rust

[Tommyboy12]

It's my time to shine! The head on the complete engine is a 1275 head. You can tell from the angle of the thermostat housing. That doesn't mean the engine is 1275 though. Check the back of the block. If it's just a casting it's likely a 1275. If it has tappet covers it's a 998. 1275 head on a 998 isn't uncommon. Needs the block pocketing to do it.

The clutch setup is unlikely to be original as it's a pre-verto clutch setup (long clutch arm is the giveaway) but that car should have a verto clutch with the short arm. Means you need to fit an inertia starter which has no piggyback solenoid. The holes are for 'cooling' but not necessary on a road car. However it probably points to an 'orange' or 'grey' clutch plate which will be heavy but relatively strong. Points towards the engine probably being a 1275 with some sort of cam in it. Also worth noting that the drop gear housing is a 1275 housing as it has the breather assembly.

Looks like you've got at least two spare 1275 heads plus a 998 by the looks of it. Those heads are about £100 each nowadays. I also see two HIF44 carbs. They're the one to have with a mildly tuned 1275. Another £100 each too.

The front wheels fitted are Metro wheels. I spotted twin brake hoses in one shot too. So it very likely has metro hubs fitted with the 4 pot brakes. A word of warning. Metro wheel offset doesnt suit a Mini and the cambers get weird with metro hubs. Its worth investigating which hubs you have fitted. Its very likely theyre Metro. They can be set up with adjustable arms to work but its probably worth fitting Mini hubs if you dont want to invest in adjustable everything (assuming it doesnt have it).

As a side note Mini City E was originally a 998 with a 2.9 diff. Very long legs and meant low rpm at cruise. They're slow off the mark though. That's not the original engine though so might not be the original box

[Matty]

30 minutes ago, Tommyboy12 said:

a side note Mini City E was originally a 998 with a 2.9 diff. Very long legs and meant low rpm at cruise. They're slow off the mark though. That's not the original engine though so might not be the original box

Bloody hell Tom, I know it's lighter than mine but with a 998 and a 2.9 diff they must've been glacial!

[Tommyboy12]

39 minutes ago, Matty said:

Bloody hell Tom, I know it's lighter than mine but with a 998 and a 2.9 diff they must've been glacial!

Very. I have one of them. My '83 is a Mayfair but ended up with a City E engine with the 2.9 diff. It was very slow to 60mph and struggled with most gradients but it only does 3000rpm at 60mph. Now ive pepped it up a bit to 60hp itll happily sit at 80mph doing 4000rpm and I have had more out of it.

The opposite problem was (and continues to be) that its nearly impossible to do 30mph in 4th with the 2.9 diff.

The last off the line MPi cars came with a 2.7 diff... They had a 1275 to help them along but that diff is looooong.

[Matty]

80 at that rpm from a 4 speed is very impressive

[Jenson Velcro]

27 minutes ago, Tommyboy12 said:

Very. I have one of them. My '83 is a Mayfair but ended up with a City E engine with the 2.9 diff. It was very slow to 60mph and struggled with most gradients but it only does 3000rpm at 60mph. Now ive pepped it up a bit to 60hp itll happily sit at 80mph doing 4000rpm and I have had more out of it.

The opposite problem was (and continues to be) that its nearly impossible to do 30mph in 4th with the 2.9 diff.

The last off the line MPi cars came with a 2.7 diff... They had a 1275 to help them along but that diff is looooong.

What are the gaps between the gear ratios like? Are the first three reasonably close together with a long space to an overdrive top, or are they all equally spaced and relying on engine torque to bridge the gaps?

[Noel Tidybeard]

2 hours ago, bangernomics said:

What about

970, 997 & 1070? The 1071 (I know) personally was an excellent balanced engine.


Gzongenflatch
In memory of Phil.

it wasn't likely to be one of those stuffed in a city E 🤣

[Tommyboy12]

1 hour ago, Jenson Velcro said:

What are the gaps between the gear ratios like? Are the first three reasonably close together with a long space to an overdrive top, or are they all equally spaced and relying on engine torque to bridge the gaps?

The ratios are quite widely spread and get wider the further up the box you go. Now I've tuned up the engine it's only really noticeable how long they are once you're into 4th but that is a great cruising gear now. Obviously the A-series was always designed for torque with it's long stroke, even on the shorter stroke of the 998.

[Stinkwheel]

On 12/07/2024 at 09:14, Tommyboy12 said:

It's my time to shine! The head on the complete engine is a 1275 head. You can tell from the angle of the thermostat housing. That doesn't mean the engine is 1275 though. Check the back of the block. If it's just a casting it's likely a 1275. If it has tappet covers it's a 998. 1275 head on a 998 isn't uncommon. Needs the block pocketing to do it.

The clutch setup is unlikely to be original as it's a pre-verto clutch setup (long clutch arm is the giveaway) but that car should have a verto clutch with the short arm. Means you need to fit an inertia starter which has no piggyback solenoid. The holes are for 'cooling' but not necessary on a road car. However it probably points to an 'orange' or 'grey' clutch plate which will be heavy but relatively strong. Points towards the engine probably being a 1275 with some sort of cam in it. Also worth noting that the drop gear housing is a 1275 housing as it has the breather assembly.

Looks like you've got at least two spare 1275 heads plus a 998 by the looks of it. Those heads are about £100 each nowadays. I also see two HIF44 carbs. They're the one to have with a mildly tuned 1275. Another £100 each too.

The front wheels fitted are Metro wheels. I spotted twin brake hoses in one shot too. So it very likely has metro hubs fitted with the 4 pot brakes. A word of warning. Metro wheel offset doesnt suit a Mini and the cambers get weird with metro hubs. Its worth investigating which hubs you have fitted. Its very likely theyre Metro. They can be set up with adjustable arms to work but its probably worth fitting Mini hubs if you dont want to invest in adjustable everything (assuming it doesnt have it).

As a side note Mini City E was originally a 998 with a 2.9 diff. Very long legs and meant low rpm at cruise. They're slow off the mark though. That's not the original engine though so might not be the original box

It really is your time to shine, thanks a lot for all the info, properly useful stuff to know from someone who’s obviously a bit of an expert 😁

have found that although I have a flywheel I have no pressure plate that sits inboard to the engine of it (like the pic below) 

would you happen to know the best place to get a new one? Or find a used one? (Is it ok to use them again if not too worn out?) 

looking to not have to spend mucho monies (but then I’m always looking to not spend much) 

 

[Stinkwheel]

Oh and no tappet covers on back of block, do we think it’s likely a 1275? 
 

[Matty]

2 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

Oh and no tappet covers on back of block, do we think it’s likely a 1275? 
 

Yus 👍

[Stinkwheel]

26 minutes ago, Matty said:

Yus 👍

Excellent news 

[Stinkwheel]

On 11/07/2024 at 17:32, Peter C said:

That is a really cool dashboard.

Any chance of a pic of the whole dash please?

 

 

Of course, excuse poor photo skills under shit garage light (the good lights are at the other end over the bike workbench, because priorities)

Hopefully it can be seen that it’s is exactly as suggested up thread somewhere, by somebody, screw in plastic panels to extend either side of the original speedo housing. 
it has rev counter, batt voltage/charging, manifold vacuum, water temp & oil pressure, lots of switches and a lot of fuses and relays and something else I have no clue about (market up as ‘otter’ ??)  

I do thing as stated above it’s probably got metro hubs as it’s got 4 pot calipers,  it discs and calipers look like they were salvaged from the Lusitania, so might be bin fodder on closer inspection

[Matty]

1 hour ago, Stinkwheel said:

Excellent news 

Indeed. This is going to be mint! Well excite 😁 

[Stinkwheel]

Started stripping the mini this morning, remember I said this was going to be a lot of work ?

 

[High Jetter]

I guess this could take more than the weekend? 🤣

[IronStar]

18 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

 

I do thing as stated above it’s probably got metro hubs as it’s got 4 pot calipers,  it discs and calipers look like they were salvaged from the Lusitania, so might be bin fodder on closer inspection

Under 10inch wheels? Those are $$$$, even when in dire need of full rebuild. Much more expensive than ones that require 12 inch wheels. Do not bin, sell. 

[Stinkwheel]

6 minutes ago, High Jetter said:

I guess this could take more than the weekend? 🤣

A few* weekends possibly

[Tommyboy12]

21 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

It really is your time to shine, thanks a lot for all the info, properly useful stuff to know from someone who’s obviously a bit of an expert 😁

have found that although I have a flywheel I have no pressure plate that sits inboard to the engine of it (like the pic below) 

would you happen to know the best place to get a new one? Or find a used one? (Is it ok to use them again if not too worn out?) 

looking to not have to spend mucho monies (but then I’m always looking to not spend much) 

 

Second hand is fine. They're easy to come by. You need to check for a non-pitted clutch mating surface. Flatness shouldn't be a problem on this part but it's worth checking it sits evenly on its legs and thickness can be checked if necessary. But they're available new from Minispares which I would recommend for sourcing any new parts.

2 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

Started stripping the mini this morning, remember I said this was going to be a lot of work ?

 

I would recommend using a genuine scuttle panel from BMH. It's a complex pressing and the shape is very important for windscreen fitment. It's a panel that needs a lot of measurements before committing to welding. The pattern panels are crap and just not worth it. However, the flitch panel, closing panel, and A panel will be fine using pattern panels.

Good luck with it! That sill and step panel is going to need some work too!

[Stinkwheel]

3 hours ago, Tommyboy12 said:

Second hand is fine. They're easy to come by. You need to check for a non-pitted clutch mating surface. Flatness shouldn't be a problem on this part but it's worth checking it sits evenly on its legs and thickness can be checked if necessary. But they're available new from Minispares which I would recommend for sourcing any new parts.

I would recommend using a genuine scuttle panel from BMH. It's a complex pressing and the shape is very important for windscreen fitment. It's a panel that needs a lot of measurements before committing to welding. The pattern panels are crap and just not worth it. However, the flitch panel, closing panel, and A panel will be fine using pattern panels.

Good luck with it! That sill and step panel is going to need some work too!

Thanks for all the excellent mini knowledge and advice so far, I will try not to ask too many silly questions, you may get sick or this thread and start not reading it 😂

good call on the genuine scuttle panel, I’ve put in an order online for some repair panels so work can begin soon in earnest. 
 

also had a better look at the 4 pot calipers, are metro ones branded up AP? As these are,  it a Google of the casting number doesn’t find much info at all

[Tommyboy12]

They are AP yes. Itll be interesting to know if they've used the metro hub (99% likely) and whether they've bothered to swap over the steering control arms or left the metro ones on the hub. The hub usually requires a small* amount of metal removed to work in a Mini

[Matty]

3 hours ago, Stinkwheel said:

Thanks for all the excellent mini knowledge and advice so far, I will try not to ask too many silly questions, you may get sick or this thread and start not reading it 😂

good call on the genuine scuttle panel, I’ve put in an order online for some repair panels so work can begin soon in earnest. 
 

also had a better look at the 4 pot calipers, are metro ones branded up AP? As these are,  it a Google of the casting number doesn’t find much info at all

Can confirm @Tommyboy12 never tires of assisting people in the ways of minis or indeed a series engines. Top man.

[Stinkwheel]

14 hours ago, Tommyboy12 said:

They are AP yes. Itll be interesting to know if they've used the metro hub (99% likely) and whether they've bothered to swap over the steering control arms or left the metro ones on the hub. The hub usually requires a small* amount of metal removed to work in a Mini

I'll get some pics at some point to try and figure it out.

Would you happen to have details on the metal needing to be removed?

Are the steering control arms anything to do with the issue with camber and is it wise to fit mini ones to help this? 

[Merryck]

Have a look on the mini forum, specifically @Ben_O has some threads that go into fantastic detail. He takes loads of photos that you'll be able to reference to get an idea of how things will need to go together.

On the heads you've got there should be casting numbers, they'll be on the top face, and are sometimes a bit difficult to read. Some of the castings go for silly money as they can be bolted onto a 998 to give it the larger valves without modification.

[Tommyboy12]

This picture highlights the differences (Metro in blue). Top ball joint sits at a very different angle which will mess with camber and caster. The steering arm is straight for a Metro vs. kinked on the Mini. That can mess with steering angles and cause scrubbing. The whole setup is a recipe for bump steer, messing with scrub radii and having to deal with weird cambers and casters.

Theyre not impossible to get over but to be honest for the work to offset vs. the gain from 4 pots its not really worth it in my opinion. It used to be when Metros were readily available and breakers were cheap but now theyre rare and parts are harder to get for a Metro than a Mini. A Mini isnt heavy enough to justify the overly powerful brakes anyway and if you really want it to show off you can just buy vented 4 pot calipers that fit Mini hubs nowadays anyway.

Myself (running a 175hp turbo Mini) and many others just buy decent pads for the original solid disc setup on a Mini. Its more than enough for road use.

[Stinkwheel]

55 minutes ago, Tommyboy12 said:

This picture highlights the differences (Metro in blue). Top ball joint sits at a very different angle which will mess with camber and caster. The steering arm is straight for a Metro vs. kinked on the Mini. That can mess with steering angles and cause scrubbing. The whole setup is a recipe for bump steer, messing with scrub radii and having to deal with weird cambers and casters.

Theyre not impossible to get over but to be honest for the work to offset vs. the gain from 4 pots its not really worth it in my opinion. It used to be when Metros were readily available and breakers were cheap but now theyre rare and parts are harder to get for a Metro than a Mini. A Mini isnt heavy enough to justify the overly powerful brakes anyway and if you really want it to show off you can just buy vented 4 pot calipers that fit Mini hubs nowadays anyway.

Myself (running a 175hp turbo Mini) and many others just buy decent pads for the original solid disc setup on a Mini. Its more than enough for road use.

Looks like I’m in luck, hopefully the pics below show it has mini hubs and steering arms

 

[Tommyboy12]

Thats a Metro hub. Fitted with Mini steering arms. The ball joint is a big giveaway. Its a sealed unit on the Metro. Nothing is adjustable there so youre going to suffer the caster and camber issues mentioned. Also they didnt put the locking tab on the bolts for the steering arm.

[Stinkwheel]

18 minutes ago, Tommyboy12 said:

Thats a Metro hub. Fitted with Mini steering arms. The ball joint is a big giveaway. Its a sealed unit on the Metro. Nothing is adjustable there so youre going to suffer the caster and camber issues mentioned. Also they didnt put the locking tab on the bolts for the steering arm.

Ahhh sod it. You know i was looking at that arm thinking it should have locking tabs.

[Eavb]

 

The engine is some sort of 1275 (you can tell from the engine steady end core plugs and the angle of the thermostat housing). The giveaway is no tappet covers on the back of the block. Get the head off (20 minute job) and measure bore and stroke to know exactly what you have. 

Almoat all of the 1275 heads are 12g940 castings, with a bunch of different valves depending on spec so the number alone doesn't tell you much. 11 stud heads are the better ones but they're all relatively easily upgraded.

It would have originally had a 12H prefix not 12G btw. 

 

[Eavb]

Oh nuts, just looked and this had already been answered, I'll get my coat 😆

[Eavb]

If you need any bits, give me a shout btw