Star garages - The Good, the Rusty, and the Delayed - New arrival

[IronStar]

14 hours ago, warch said:

@IronStar What model Bravo is that? One of my mates used to own a Bravo HGT that he had from new. He bought it from one of those glorious pile em high, sell em cheap automotive supermarkets that used to do massive discounts so it was pretty cheap even in early 000s money. It had the 155hp five cylinder engine and had a lovely warbling exhaust note vaguely reminiscent of a T5 or a Quattro. 

Annoyingly though nearly everyone in the UK who wanted a 150hp GTI went and bought a bloody Mk IV Golf instead so they were rare back then and practically extinct now, even the bog standard models. 

1.6 16v, Suite special edition. All the toys of HGT, but a bit less poke. 

This one was saved from a scrapper, and after driving it, I wanted an HGT. However, that would mean this one would probably become a Zanussi, and it's a very rare edition of a car that's disappearing fast, so it would be a proper shame. It's pokey enough, and you can wring it all the time without risking massive fines, so I don't mind too much. Sounds like a properly angry small car with the exhaust system as well. 

[IronStar]

Random musings on Wednesday afternoon.

Could it be that Bravo did an OMGHGF? I can’t find where the coolant is leaking, not did I try too hard to be fair. No puddle when left alone though. It has an occasional stumble, and sometimes runs shit on idle. Temperature creeps 2 dashes over normal, but fan speed 2 kicks in and gets it back down. There’s a whiff of coolant that I can’t really pinpoint. I pulled the dipstick and it looked alright, but it was too hot to pull the expansion tank cap. No white smoke from the exhaust though.

My cars like to shit themselves in pairs as well. Mini did a HGF recently, so could we have number 2? These engines supposedly like munching a gasket. I booked it for suspension next week, but I think this will need to be checked at the same time as well. I’ll stop driving it in the meantime. 

[Yoss]

55 minutes ago, IronStar said:

Random musings on Wednesday afternoon.

Could it be that Bravo did a OMGHGF? I can’t find where the coolant is leaking, not did I try too hard to be fair. No puddle when left alone though. It has an occasional stumble, and sometimes runs shit on idle. Temperature creeps 2 dashes over normal, but fan speed 2 kicks in and gets it back down. There’s a whiff of coolant that I can’t really pinpoint. I pulled the dipstick and it looked alright, but it was too hot to pull the expansion tank cap. No white smoke from the exhaust though.

My cars like to shit themselves in pairs as well. Mini did a HGF recently, so could we have number 2? These engines supposedly like munching a gasket. I booked it for suspension next week, but I think this will need to be checked at the same time as well. I’ll stop driving it in the meantime. 

I think you need to be far more sure before you start pulling the head off. Unfortunately coolant loss could be from almost hundreds of places and if it's only minor it will evaporate before leaving any clue. But you probably already know this.

If it's going in to a garage they should have more equipment. Do you have emissions testing for your equivalent of the MOT? If so, sticking the magic wand they usually put up the exhaust in to the top of the header tank should give a clue. 

[IronStar]

Been a while since the last Y Cabrio update. Because there were next to no updates really.

Yesterday morning it was sitting like this:

I went over to have a chat and see if I can lend a hand. I will preface the rest of the story by saying I really don't understand Zastava and what went through their heads when designing EFI. There are so many subtle differences between EFI and carb cars, they must've had separate shells and assembly line for them. Exhaust mounting places are different, fuel tank mounts are different, fuel hose routing is different, random brackets in the engine compartment are different/missing/added, hood retainer is different and has different cutout in the hood, firewall holes are different, it's all so similar yet nothing is compatible, requires some chopping, modifying and transplanting. Completely pointless and mental. Naturally, Cabrio has shell reinforcements, so you can't even verbatim copy tons of things from the EFI donor car, you need to reinvent the wheel. 

So lots of drilling, riveting, random bits of metal welding and transplanting from the donor shell took place. It finally got rerouted fuel pipes, fuel tank mounted back in, fuse box reatached, cabin air intake with heater matrix and assorted hoses, and radiator back in. Not without putting up a fight, and having to remove the coolant pump running to the water pump 2 times because there were remnants of old-old gasket on it, it wasn't sealing and having to refill coolant every single time. Not without random rubber hoses breaking during the process (despite having replacements). Not without starting an engine for 5s, and the said engine being a liter short of oil. Not without arbitrary things being a general menace. 

But, now we're here.

Starts, runs, idles happily, keeps the right temperature, fan kicks in, nothing is leaking. I don't have much time during the working days to go and help, but hopefully this is a kickstart into the right direction. I'll drop by next weekend to carry on if I need to. I really, really, really want to see this done already

[yugofan]

On 13/06/2025 at 14:17, IronStar said:

 

BLING! 
Needs tyres now, but the selection of 14 inch ones is depressing. Yugo has no ABS or ESP, and almost everything on offer are ditchfinders. It was expected really, next to no one would buy Sport Contacts in these sizes.  

Vredestein Quatracs seem to be available in smaller sizes, but don't know about availability over there.

Keep up the great work!

[IronStar]

This has been a long time coming, but...When I went to pick up an AC compressor last week, I saw a TON of Fiat 1.6 16v cars sitting in the yard. Bravos, Bravas, Mareas, Multiplas, Palios, you name it. Talked to the guy running it, and he was willing to give me a complete Palio for 300. I was supposed to try starting it and see how it runs on Saturday, but it was close to 40C, so we decided to call it quits and delay it. Called him today, and he tells me that he thinks that car's ECU, immo box, and key have been sold, and he'll go check if other Palio has it so we can get that one out. Instead of waiting to be told it doesn't have it over the phone, I drove over.

The subject:

- Hello, did you check the Palio?
- Oh, I didn't check it. *walking over together* yeah, that's sold...Sorry mate, the other Palio doesn't have it either. You can't try this. 
- Surely there's a metal-air-intake 1.6 16v car that has ECU still in?
- Yeah but that's not compatible 

*pausing the conversation here for a small interuption*

 I did quite a bit of homework on these engines, and I know what's cross-compatible as Fiat was really into parts bin specials back then. Essentially, there's 3 generations of 1.6 16v engine - Gen 1 has a metal air intake and is euro 2,  Gen 2 has a plastic air intake and is euro 3,  Gen 3 is what's in Fiat Stilo. ECUs and boxes are compatible with each other, no matter what the label on the box says. I don't expect anyone running a scrappy to do this level of homework. 😄  

- It is, as long as it's same-gen engine. 
- I er.....don't think it is.
- Worth a shot, don't you think?
- *calls the guy working there* help the guy out. We're wasting time, but it's a slow day, so heyho.

One ECU and ignition barrel out of a Bravo later, we had the car cranking, starting, but not staying on. Wondering what the fuck gives, the guy realised we didn't take the immo box. 🤦‍♂️ One immo box later, we had it starting, but dying instantly as the ignition switch was faulty. We were some 45 minutes into ripping the car apart when the yard owner walked over

- No dice? Give it up, it can't be done. 
- We started it, it's just this ignition barrel is faulty.
- *look of utter confusion* *look of approval and gaining his respect in real time* oh. ooooh. So it can be done like that. Right. As you were. What kind of barrel do you need? *takes a look* this looks like MK1 Punto, try one of those. 

One mk1 Punto ignition barrel, Bravo key in immo ring, Bravo ECU, and Bravo immo later, the car was running. It was very unhappy with a disconnected airbox and on stale fuel, but it settled after what seemed like 25 retries, and idled and revved happily. 

So we dragged it out

Loaded onto a towtruck

and towed it over to a tame mechanic do to his magic

He thinks I've completely lost it, but is, as always, willing to help out on my (idiotic) car journeys. He'll get the engine pulled, change the belts, water pump, and any suspect gaskets so it doesn't leak the moment it goes to its new home, and shove it in the back so I can get the harness out at the bodyshop.

As a bonus, Palio is a better-suited donor for Yugo than any other car equipped with this engine. Instead of having ECU in the engine bay, ready to commit suicide by water, ECU is in the passenger footwell, which is very conveniently the same place where EFI Yugo has it. The same goes for the airbox. All other cars with this engine have it in FR corner, Palio has it in the FL, where Yugo's factory airbox sits.  Neither would be a showstopper, but it's nice to have anyway. 

 

[Yoss]

So this thing is related to this Fiat Albea I found in Budapest then? The doors look identical. We don't get either of them over here. 

[IronStar]

4 hours ago, Yoss said:

So this thing is related to this Fiat Albea I found in Budapest then? The doors look identical. We don't get either of them over here. 

Yeah, Albea is an European developing markets rehash of Sienna, which in itself is a sedan version of Palio world car project. Palio Weekend that I got is an estate version of the Palio. Wildly sucesfull in latam, but I don’t know what were they thinking with the pre-facelift design and that rear window of an estate that mateches absolutely no lines of the car whatsoever.

[loserone]

On 28/07/2025 at 16:02, yugofan said:

Vredestein Quatracs seem to be available in smaller sizes, but don't know about availability over there.

Keep up the great work!

I put some on my Renault Express, they were also available from autodoc in Germany.  However, I have one pair made in the Netherlands, and another made in India about six months later.  The newer pair are significantly heavier and are harder rubber.

 

The palio looks interesting in its own right.

[IronStar]

2 hours ago, loserone said:

The palio looks interesting in its own right.

I almost feel bad driving final nail in its existence, but it’s done for anyway. It’s rusty, quite a few bits were already taken off, I can’t get the title even if I tried as it was scrapped 3 years ago and there’s no owner contact. Bits will live on in the Yugo. Other than engine, I’m also taking harness, brakes, seats, and probably a few more bits, and I’ll try punting off the rest to someone that needs bits rather than scrapping it outright. Maybe even strip what’s left and put the good bits into a box in storage. 

[loserone]

Oh it looks shagged, just a clean one would appeal 

[IronStar]

8 minutes ago, loserone said:

Oh it looks shagged, just a clean one would appeal 

Road trip collection?

https://www.polovniautomobili.com/auto-oglasi/26904378/fiat-palio-weekend?attp=p0_pv0_pc0_pl1_plv0

[hairnet]

man that lives in country that used recycled fiats

recycles a fiat

advert palio want

whats wrong with servo and where is car

ta

 

[IronStar]

2 minutes ago, hairnet said:

man that lives in country that used recycled fiats

recycles a fiat

advert palio want

whats wrong with servo and where is car

ta

 

Fiat recycling chain continues! 😄

Outskirts of Belgrade, it's a busted CV boot, and there's some cap on the engine that's leaking.

[Zelandeth]

On 21/07/2025 at 16:58, IronStar said:

Been a while since the last Y Cabrio update. Because there were next to no updates really.

Yesterday morning it was sitting like this:

I went over to have a chat and see if I can lend a hand. I will preface the rest of the story by saying I really don't understand Zastava and what went through their heads when designing EFI. There are so many subtle differences between EFI and carb cars, they must've had separate shells and assembly line for them. Exhaust mounting places are different, fuel tank mounts are different, fuel hose routing is different, random brackets in the engine compartment are different/missing/added, hood retainer is different and has different cutout in the hood, firewall holes are different, it's all so similar yet nothing is compatible, requires some chopping, modifying and transplanting. Completely pointless and mental. Naturally, Cabrio has shell reinforcements, so you can't even verbatim copy tons of things from the EFI donor car, you need to reinvent the wheel. 

So lots of drilling, riveting, random bits of metal welding and transplanting from the donor shell took place. It finally got rerouted fuel pipes, fuel tank mounted back in, fuse box reatached, cabin air intake with heater matrix and assorted hoses, and radiator back in. Not without putting up a fight, and having to remove the coolant pump running to the water pump 2 times because there were remnants of old-old gasket on it, it wasn't sealing and having to refill coolant every single time. Not without random rubber hoses breaking during the process (despite having replacements). Not without starting an engine for 5s, and the said engine being a liter short of oil. Not without arbitrary things being a general menace. 

But, now we're here.

Starts, runs, idles happily, keeps the right temperature, fan kicks in, nothing is leaking. I don't have much time during the working days to go and help, but hopefully this is a kickstart into the right direction. I'll drop by next weekend to carry on if I need to. I really, really, really want to see this done already

That sounds absolutely maddening!  

At least when Lada went the EFI route they just chopped the top off the inlet manifold, stuffed a throttle body injector in there, changed the fuel lines a bit to handle the higher pressure, stuck a reluctor wheel on the crank pulley, and made a new timing cover with a boss for the crank position sensor - that was basically it.  Even the vehicle speed sensor piggy backed on the speedometer drive without any changes to the basic setup.  Whole injection system was bought basically off the shelf from GM, and crude though it looked in many ways it worked very well.  Whole injection loom was independent - think there were five connections to the actual car (+12V, switched 12V, ground, source for the check engine light - the ECU switched the ground for that).

Interesting and surprising to see that Yugo went down a vastly more expensive and time consuming route like that.

[IronStar]

2 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

That sounds absolutely maddening!  

At least when Lada went the EFI route they just chopped the top off the inlet manifold, stuffed a throttle body injector in there, changed the fuel lines a bit to handle the higher pressure, stuck a reluctor wheel on the crank pulley, and made a new timing cover with a boss for the crank position sensor - that was basically it.  Even the vehicle speed sensor piggy backed on the speedometer drive without any changes to the basic setup.  Whole injection system was bought basically off the shelf from GM, and crude though it looked in many ways it worked very well.  Whole injection loom was independent - think there were five connections to the actual car (+12V, switched 12V, ground, source for the check engine light - the ECU switched the ground for that).

Interesting and surprising to see that Yugo went down a vastly more expensive and time consuming route like that.

Engine base is mostly the same as the carb version, with the major differences being a re-ground head for better injector flow and a different camshaft profile. The rest of it is completely different, for example fuel tank is not only different in recepticle for pump/sender, but completely different shape and 10L bigger. 

The injection loom is independent, and the Bosch Motronic ECU has a wire going straight to the dash bulb for check engine. Base loom is the same, with the exception of the fuse box, wich is different to accomodate the extra fuses and relays. Another absolutely wild thing is heater box. They chopped the lower bit to clear the ait intake, but then proceded to have two different boxes until the very last car - one that's chopped, and a bulkier carb version. Heater core behind is the same, so ????

I guess all of this just goes to show that Yugo/Zastava had great ambitions, and were really (re)thinking the car and applying lessons learned, primarily in the USA market, before it all went to shit with the Yugoslav wars. From the early 90's on it was mostly just keeping the very limited production going, and it shows.  

[Brigsy]

Ive never seen a fiat paleo before. Every day is a school day!

Looks a bit like punto on the front wings etc.

[yugofan]

12 hours ago, IronStar said:

Engine base is mostly the same as the carb version, with the major differences being a re-ground head for better injector flow and a different camshaft profile. The rest of it is completely different, for example fuel tank is not only different in recepticle for pump/sender, but completely different shape and 10L bigger. 

The injection loom is independent, and the Bosch Motronic ECU has a wire going straight to the dash bulb for check engine. Base loom is the same, with the exception of the fuse box, wich is different to accomodate the extra fuses and relays. Another absolutely wild thing is heater box. They chopped the lower bit to clear the ait intake, but then proceded to have two different boxes until the very last car - one that's chopped, and a bulkier carb version. Heater core behind is the same, so ????

I guess all of this just goes to show that Yugo/Zastava had great ambitions, and were really (re)thinking the car and applying lessons learned, primarily in the USA market, before it all went to shit with the Yugoslav wars. From the early 90's on it was mostly just keeping the very limited production going, and it shows.  

Fascinating stuff!

[Zelandeth]

Additional to my last post.  Forgot that the factory EFI cars did have a slightly higher output alternator than the carbed ones to keep up with the extra load from the fuel pump.  

Never found that the one on the Riva I converted had any problems keeping up even at idle with all electrical loads switched on though, so guessing it was just a belt and braces approach with -40C winters in mind.

[IronStar]

1 hour ago, Zelandeth said:

Additional to my last post.  Forgot that the factory EFI cars did have a slightly higher output alternator than the carbed ones to keep up with the extra load from the fuel pump.  

Never found that the one on the Riva I converted had any problems keeping up even at idle with all electrical loads switched on though, so guessing it was just a belt and braces approach with -40C winters in mind.

Initial series of cars (pre 88-89) had 33A, later upgraded to 45A. EFI was 55A. After the fall of Yugoslavia they started installing whatever they had to hand, so it ended up with a mishmash of 55 and 65A alternators in everything. 

[IronStar]

Introducing the solution to “how do I get the fuel to the 1.6 engine up front?” problem.

Yugo EFI fuel tank. Conveniently shared with Peugeot engined 1.1 In L which is easier to find in a scrappy than a regular EFI Yugo. Picked up from the same place as Palio.

Bonus photo of a Renault 25 Baccara sitting there rotting:

[JMotor]

Excellent. That'll save a headache getting the Fiat engine fuelled.

That'll be from the later facelifted Koral? So it'll be TU engined?

[IronStar]

5 minutes ago, JMotor said:

Excellent. That'll save a headache getting the Fiat engine fuelled.

That'll be from the later facelifted Koral? So it'll be TU engined?

Yup! It came out one of these:

 

Easy swap for tons* of power - find one of these, swap in 1.6L TU out of *everything under the sun, including Florida In L*