SAFRANE owners thread. Now with added Jazz content.

[IronStar]

Do you have roadside assistance that does recovery? How much is the cheapest if you don’t? 
Take the car to London, if gearbox grenades itself, get it recovered to the garage. It doesn’t really matter as you’re getting a new gearbox. 
Might as well go full cheeky, drive 30 miles call recovery and say this awful grinding noise just started, not sure it’s safe to proceed, recovery to garage pls?

[MrGTI6]

1 hour ago, andyberg said:

Well I think the verdict is in. Jazz will be scrapped. I have tried local garages and gearbox specialists, cheapest quote is over £1000!! I’m not sure she can make the trip to that London for the place there that does the job for £500.  Scrap value is £160. So unless a shiter wants it for that then the bridge beckons on my return from holiday. 
on the plus side that will pay for a full ceramic coating for the Safrane that the chap reckons is guaranteed for 6 months. 

Tempted by this and still very happy with my previous purchase from @andyberg. Given that I don't have the time/space/ability to fit a gearbox myself, it's a difficult one to justify. 

Seems far too good to scrap though. I wonder if this would be up @NorthernMonkey's street? 

[Sigmund Fraud]

1 hour ago, andyberg said:

Scrap value is £160. So unless a shiter wants it for that then the bridge beckons on my return from holiday.

I'd be really surprised if it doesn't make it to London - not much strain on the bearings when driving at a constant speed/load.

Alternatively, I reckon it will fetch far more on eBay than the scrap price. They are still sought after by couriers and takeaway drivers, and not many solid examples remain.

[NorthernMonkey]

Too old for me, I’m afraid, but as suggested elsewhere it’ll do far better than scrap money as a ‘spares/repair’ listing on marketplace or eBay classified.

[andyberg]

Good news on the Jazz front. My local garage will do the job for £750!! And they may know of a recently rebuilt gearbox I can have to reduce the price a bit. 
Looks like the Jazz will be saved. I’m really glad actually as it is a cracking car apart from the bearing issue and should last several more years now. Good times😀

[RustyNuts]

On 20/10/2024 at 12:32, andyberg said:

I drove the Safrane today, first time in a month, since having the little Jazz. Now as much as the Jazz does its job the Safrane is just majestic. I drove to Bridgewater to see a good friend and it’s just smooth and comfortable, even in the crap weather we are having today. I will be genuinely sad when ever this thing crosses the bridge. Hopefully not for a few years yet though. 
Heres a moody shot in a multi storey car park from this morning. Doesn’t she look good?

Looks great!

Every time I see your car I look at that number plate and I'm sure it's the same car that I nearly bought in 2010. I always wanted a black one and then one came up but didn't have the electric windscreen that I love so much and so even though the owner dropped his price by half, I eventually decided I was getting carried away with my Safrane obsession and decided not to proceed.

To put that into context, once upon a time I had 13 spare alloys, boot hatch, engine (actually i still have one), 4 doors (later turned into 8), windscreen etc etc. It did get a bit silly..

Anyway don't go assuming it's going to cross that bridge any time soon. These are well built Renaults, very little really goes wrong with them unless you're clueless like me and start poking and prodding. Then hell can break loose and very few people know enough about them to get you back on the road again (and very few people genuinely can look at any car and diagnose stuff in an instant).

Ours was off the road 12.5 years, in that time I had everything thrown at me and because they're so rare, very few people know anything about them. Even the local renault specialists around here won't touch them and so I was flying blind poking and prodding at shadows for years. I learnt a lot from it though but the only thing I can really say is that they are well made cars but they become fragile if you start tinkering.

Some of them do however start to rot and thats problematic. If you keep on top of that the car will go for another decade easily. I'm also running on E10 and the french say it will go with a far higher E number than that.

On 29/10/2024 at 16:52, andyberg said:

Took the Safrane to work. The Jazz is parked up while I see if the job can be done locally for reasonable ££. 
Gave her a wash, below is a picture that makes me feel a whole lot better 😀 I do love the look of this car

Yep, I love the look of them too. When we got the first one it looked huge. These days it looks small compared to a 1.6L Golf! Still, it holds its own on the road and is unique.

[andyberg]

Given my local garage the go ahead to sort the gearbox on the jazz. They have found a secondhand gearbox that they reconditioned a couple of years ago. Total bill should be around £550. Result. 

[andyberg]

Jazz has been taken to the local garage to have its new gearbox fitted. I have gone for a new clutch as well as it’s all apart.

The Safrane has been pressed into daily duties this week as my sons 106 has developed a hole in the exhaust. Bloody love the Safrane, it’s so comfortable and floaty. It’s been good to drive her again, never mind the crippled bank balance now! Old school auto on a reasonably short, stop start and up  and down hill commute is not ideal for mpg’s. Plus when I went to do my weekly tyre, oil and fluids check one tyre was 20psi and wouldn’t go any higher, cue finding a screw embedded in the tread😡a few well chosen words later and the wheel was changed. Why do tyre fitters rattle gun the studs so bloody tight😡😡
I hope to get the jazz back Tuesday or Wednesday. 

[scorchio69]

I have only just found this post and it’s certainly giving me flashbacks to my time working as a Renault mechanic for the best part of 12-13 years but it’s good too see some still on the roads.

You were right with the Renault oddities at the time especially the use of Volvo engines especially the 2.0 non turbo four cylinder in the laguna ( pretty sure these were only in the phase 2 lagunas) plus from memory it was a Volvo box too as the telltale was a longer gear lever that always felt “rubbery” compared to a normal laguna.

Serviced a fair few safranes especially with the 5 pot and always found it odd at the time putting an auto box on a engine like this as it always just felt sluggish to actually want to kick down or actually make decent progress, seats were like sofas but replacing back boxes were a pain in the ring.

I may have a case of rose tinted specs but Renault got it bang on with the phase 2 laguna ( especially the airflow edition for BTCC spoiler homologation ) and I always wished they had just said bugger it and shoehorn in the T5 engine and call it a laguna T250, maybe it’s time someone does a resto mod on one.

[andyberg]

My local garage fixed the Jazz in a day. Collected her last night and took her to work this morning. The new clutch and gearbox has transformed the driving experience. It’s so quiet now! A very good decision I think. Total cost was £625 for a second hand box and clutch that had done less than 10,000 miles since its bearing replacement. The donor Jazz was the garages old courtesy car so mechanically it was looked after, Honda rust got to it in the end. 
Very pleased. 

[RustyNuts]

On 16/12/2024 at 05:58, scorchio69 said:

I have only just found this post and it’s certainly giving me flashbacks to my time working as a Renault mechanic for the best part of 12-13 years but it’s good too see some still on the roads.

You were right with the Renault oddities at the time especially the use of Volvo engines especially the 2.0 non turbo four cylinder in the laguna ( pretty sure these were only in the phase 2 lagunas) plus from memory it was a Volvo box too as the telltale was a longer gear lever that always felt “rubbery” compared to a normal laguna.

Serviced a fair few safranes especially with the 5 pot and always found it odd at the time putting an auto box on a engine like this as it always just felt sluggish to actually want to kick down or actually make decent progress, seats were like sofas but replacing back boxes were a pain in the ring.

The 2.0 L engine was indeed only fitted to the Safrane and Laguna. Thankfully that Laguna never saw the 2.5 - that was a special for the Safrane! There were also Volvos fitted with Renault engines too - which oddly were highly reliable. This was because Renault were in semi partnership with Volvo at the time as they were trying to buy Volvo but that was blocked at the last minute.

They can feel sluggy if not in sport mode, I use sport mode and stamp the pedal down to the floor and it'll outrun all sorts.. well.. used to back in 2008. These days it's getting harder to outrun a mondeo. Takes a couple of seconds to really get it going but once it does it'll bounce off the rev limiter. Concerningly the cruise control remembers this behaviour too so if you've been using the gas gently and switch to cruise, override it (eg slowing down for a roundabout) and then re-engage it, it'll be gentle with the pedal. Now imagine how terrifying it can be when it decides to accelerate to its target speed using the "stamp on the floor" treatment and you're not expecting it. It scared the shit out of me in 2008 outside of Manston airport when it did that to me for the first time. I can't understand why they never gave this car a Turbo though, that seems an odd one considering Volvo made many variations of this engine and many did have Turbos.

Back boxes being a pain? Not IMO - I've done it loads of times.

[EyesWeldedShut]

On 16/12/2024 at 05:58, scorchio69 said:

I have only just found this post and it’s certainly giving me flashbacks to my time working as a Renault mechanic for the best part of 12-13 years but it’s good too see some still on the roads.

You were right with the Renault oddities at the time especially the use of Volvo engines especially the 2.0 non turbo four cylinder in the laguna ( pretty sure these were only in the phase 2 lagunas) plus from memory it was a Volvo box too as the telltale was a longer gear lever that always felt “rubbery” compared to a normal laguna.

Serviced a fair few safranes especially with the 5 pot and always found it odd at the time putting an auto box on a engine like this as it always just felt sluggish to actually want to kick down or actually make decent progress, seats were like sofas but replacing back boxes were a pain in the ring.

I may have a case of rose tinted specs but Renault got it bang on with the phase 2 laguna ( especially the airflow edition for BTCC spoiler homologation ) and I always wished they had just said bugger it and shoehorn in the T5 engine and call it a laguna T250, maybe it’s time someone does a resto mod on one.

What was the 12 valve engine all about?
I bought a K plate Safrane at Exeter Auctions  around 2004 (on a whim - as you do) manual g/box with that engine. Cheap as chips and a lovely thing to drive but it was absolutely gutless (in retrospect possibly a part blocked cat?) so bad that on a steep hill you were two gears lower than you expected to be.
Ran it for two years though - cost me £395 and it got a starter motor and two tyres - sold it for £400 back through the same auction - replaced it with a Laguna diesel.

[scorchio69]

9 hours ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

What was the 12 valve engine all about?
I bought a K plate Safrane at Exeter Auctions  around 2004 (on a whim - as you do) manual g/box with that engine. Cheap as chips and a lovely thing to drive but it was absolutely gutless (in retrospect possibly a part blocked cat?) so bad that on a steep hill you were two gears lower than you expected to be.
Ran it for two years though - cost me £395 and it got a starter motor and two tyres - sold it for £400 back through the same auction - replaced it with a Laguna diesel.

Not too sure actually but I remember proton doing their 12 valve engines but from memory these were an old Mitsubishi design, 12 valves would usually be warranted for higher revving applications but a Safrane certainly wasn’t, maybe one too many bottles of wine was drunk during a brain storming session and the office junior piped up about his twelve valves.

[EyesWeldedShut]

5 minutes ago, scorchio69 said:

Not too sure actually but I remember proton doing their 12 valve engines but from memory these were an old Mitsubishi design, 12 valves would usually be warranted for higher revving applications but a Safrane certainly wasn’t, maybe one too many bottles of wine was drunk during a brain storming session and the office junior piped up about his twelve valves.

I wasn't too sure about the thing either - had '12 Valve' written on the cam cover but that (other than changing the starter motor) was as far as I ever went into the guts of the engine - couldn't tell you if it was Renault parts or what?

Lovely, comfortable car though - under rated

[scorchio69]

1 hour ago, EyesWeldedShut said:

I wasn't too sure about the thing either - had '12 Valve' written on the cam cover but that (other than changing the starter motor) was as far as I ever went into the guts of the engine - couldn't tell you if it was Renault parts or what?

Lovely, comfortable car though - under rated

Can’t recall ever being into one but that was a very very long time ago.

[EyesWeldedShut]

4 minutes ago, scorchio69 said:

Can’t recall ever being into one but that was a very very long time ago .. dinosaurs roamed the earth and Tony Blair was PM

Age me already, why don't you
FTFY btw

 

[maxxo]

this was my surprise of the day!

of course cue much light flashing and thumbs up, spotting a Safrane from an XM has to be up there with french brilliance i must admit

quite hankering after a Safrane now, i think they're excellent

spot of the year

[andyberg]

17 minutes ago, maxxo said:

this was my surprise of the day!

of course cue much light flashing and thumbs up, spotting a Safrane from an XM has to be up there with french brilliance i must admit

quite hankering after a Safrane now, i think they're excellent

spot of the year

Excellent 😁 a very rare spot indeed. I would like to try an XM one day. I still remember the ride in my old Xantia, just superb.

[maxxo]

3 minutes ago, andyberg said:

Excellent 😁 a very rare spot indeed. I would like to try an XM one day. I still remember the ride in my old Xantia, just superb.

if you're ever in the north east of england let me know, i'm more than  happy to let you have a go

they ride better than a Xantia in my opinion

[RustyNuts]

On 26/12/2024 at 10:42, maxxo said:

this was my surprise of the day!

of course cue much light flashing and thumbs up, spotting a Safrane from an XM has to be up there with french brilliance i must admit

quite hankering after a Safrane now, i think they're excellent

spot of the year

Wow that's a lucky sighting to see in the wild! There's only 15 left on the road now according to how many left (well, oly 15 of the 2.5s Execs.. the RTEs and the 2.0s I paid no attention to).

They're certainly unique cars, I've had 3 of them. Great cars, very underrated and yet ypu'll be impressed the moment you jump into one. These are not normal french crap, they're odd, quirky, weird and yet clever and brilliant with it. They're far more serious about eating those miles than most french tat out there and they were actually built pretty well compared to many Renaults.

The volvo power plants don't really mess about either (unless like me, you tinker and then it can get interesting). My two nearest renault specialists (which were at the time motorline) both said they never had one in their workshops but one saying they did remember selling a few but never had any in for repair because they were so reliable.

I didn't see one for years out there in the wild, the moment i got ours back on the road after a 12 year hiatus, i saw one in the first week! Most folks have never seen one, heard of one or even been near one so you'll often get surprised people around you when they see it for the first time.

Quirky cars.. they really are.

[andyberg]

Quick update. Nothing much to report really. Jazz continues to be a car, really so much nicer to drive now the gearbox is quiet. Definitely a good decision to get it replaced. In this weather the heater has proven to be like a proper furnace and warms up nice and quickly. 
The Safrane, although not used very much, continues to start on the button even after a couple of weeks sat in the cold. A few French gremlins are beginning to appear though🙁 the clock/ radio display no longer works along with the low fuel warning light and handbrake warning light. The wipers and central locking are a bit reluctant to work properly, I think this is down to lack of use. I will investigate all these issues when it gets a bit warmer. Come spring I will probably use her more often anyway. Still a wonderful place to sit and makes me feel good when I drive her, it’s a similar feeling to riding my motorbike. 

[beko1987]

Sounds like the safrane doesn't like the damp and cold. My Xsara hasn't been turned on since Tuesday, I know that if I got in it now the clock display would be all messed up. Sorts* itself out come spring. 

I do miss my zx petrol in the winter. It got roasting hot just idling. The Xsara takes a good 10 miles and even then the temp needle doesn't really rise 😂

[RustyNuts]

On 11/01/2025 at 09:39, andyberg said:

The wipers and central locking are a bit reluctant to work properly, I think this is down to lack of use. 

Safrane here is in use daily and the central locking is also playing up. The drivers door refuses to unlock frequently and it's always when it's cold. Yesterday I had to get in the back and reach through to pull the inside handle to get it to open. Even then, the door was still sticking where the damp has got in and frozen round the door seals at the bottom (inside the door at the bottom is a drain hole). It's a pain! 

Having fixed several other leaking points on this car in the past, I suspect there is damp inside the door locks and it's freezing - that or a metal part that's rusted up and slightly swells when it's cold. 

But you have to remember these are some 26 odd years old now and while the engines and gearboxes are strong, the rest is quirky French quality that needs to be loved.

Something I forgot to tell you is that these also leak into the drivers foot well and can hide a huge puddle in the sound insulation. You can literally go for years without knowing it's there. There are 3 culprits to this; 

1) drivers door speaker - water can run down inside the door card and leak out via the speaker where it then leaks through the plastic cover, runs down the inside of the kick panel and onto the foot well. This is solved by taking out the speaker and putting a small sheet of plastic in behind it that directs water back into the door away from the speaker. 

2) wiring loom behind the fuses under the dash that goes through a rubber seal into the front driver wheel area. Water runs down from under the scuttle through the drain hole, landing on the wire directly beneath then working it's easy down into the rubber seal. As it sits in there year after year freezing, that rubber breaks up inside the plastic pipe that is moulded into. Eventually it bypasses the rubber (which is a seriously hefty lump), runs down the wires and onto the foot well. 

3) under the scuttle is a rubber seal where some wires come through for the wiper motor (might be the siren actually - can't remember now). If anyone has tinkered with it, its possible it's not been fitted back in correctly as it's a pig of a job to do. The result here is that yet again, water then gets in under it and runs down the wires into the drivers foot well. 

The spare wheel well can also collect water, if it is then your wiper arm seal / hole are on trouble.

Oddly I've never had trouble with the passenger side which has always remained dry. 

If you have electric seats, remember to slide them back and forth on a semi regular basis. If you don't and you've got that unknown puddle in there under the carpet it can cause the runners to corroded internally and then seize and it's an absolute pig to have the seat out, dismantle, cut the runners up etc all while working around a live airbag that is impact triggered and needs no electricity to trigger it. It literally took me 5-6 days in the middle of summer to do this and those runners are absolutely not designed to be opened up. They are basically designed to stay sealed for life. It can be done but it's a rotten job! Much easier just to ensure you slide them back and forth often. A bit of grease in there wouldn't hurt either.

[andyberg]

4 hours ago, RustyNuts said:

Safrane here is in use daily and the central locking is also playing up. The drivers door refuses to unlock frequently and it's always when it's cold. Yesterday I had to get in the back and reach through to pull the inside handle to get it to open. Even then, the door was still sticking where the damp has got in and frozen round the door seals at the bottom (inside the door at the bottom is a drain hole). It's a pain! 

Having fixed several other leaking points on this car in the past, I suspect there is damp inside the door locks and it's freezing - that or a metal part that's rusted up and slightly swells when it's cold. 

But you have to remember these are some 26 odd years old now and while the engines and gearboxes are strong, the rest is quirky French quality that needs to be loved.

Something I forgot to tell you is that these also leak into the drivers foot well and can hide a huge puddle in the sound insulation. You can literally go for years without knowing it's there. There are 3 culprits to this; 

1) drivers door speaker - water can run down inside the door card and leak out via the speaker where it then leaks through the plastic cover, runs down the inside of the kick panel and onto the foot well. This is solved by taking out the speaker and putting a small sheet of plastic in behind it that directs water back into the door away from the speaker. 

2) wiring loom behind the fuses under the dash that goes through a rubber seal into the front driver wheel area. Water runs down from under the scuttle through the drain hole, landing on the wire directly beneath then working it's easy down into the rubber seal. As it sits in there year after year freezing, that rubber breaks up inside the plastic pipe that is moulded into. Eventually it bypasses the rubber (which is a seriously hefty lump), runs down the wires and onto the foot well. 

3) under the scuttle is a rubber seal where some wires come through for the wiper motor (might be the siren actually - can't remember now). If anyone has tinkered with it, its possible it's not been fitted back in correctly as it's a pig of a job to do. The result here is that yet again, water then gets in under it and runs down the wires into the drivers foot well. 

The spare wheel well can also collect water, if it is then your wiper arm seal / hole are on trouble.

Oddly I've never had trouble with the passenger side which has always remained dry. 

If you have electric seats, remember to slide them back and forth on a semi regular basis. If you don't and you've got that unknown puddle in there under the carpet it can cause the runners to corroded internally and then seize and it's an absolute pig to have the seat out, dismantle, cut the runners up etc all while working around a live airbag that is impact triggered and needs no electricity to trigger it. It literally took me 5-6 days in the middle of summer to do this and those runners are absolutely not designed to be opened up. They are basically designed to stay sealed for life. It can be done but it's a rotten job! Much easier just to ensure you slide them back and forth often. A bit of grease in there wouldn't hurt either.

My drivers door is fine, it’s every other door and the tailgate. You can hear the locks move but they don’t quite move enough to unlock. I don’t seem to have any leaks as yet 🤞 but I do keep checking.  My wiper motor needs a bit* of encouragement to start working some days but after a few minutes it’s fine, have always had a bit of trouble with the fast speed though, that has never worked until the wipers have been going a long time. By that I mean at least 30 mos of constant use. 
still love the car to bits though. 

[RustyNuts]

3 hours ago, andyberg said:

My drivers door is fine, it’s every other door and the tailgate. You can hear the locks move but they don’t quite move enough to unlock. I don’t seem to have any leaks as yet 🤞 but I do keep checking.  My wiper motor needs a bit* of encouragement to start working some days but after a few minutes it’s fine, have always had a bit of trouble with the fast speed though, that has never worked until the wipers have been going a long time. By that I mean at least 30 mos of constant use. 
still love the car to bits though. 

I suspect you have done dried up grease in there somewhere then and the long delay of normal wiping eventually warms it up enough to soften. 

My rear wiper plays up, sometimes it's very slow, other times it will wipe like normal. It's always done it. Initially I thought the motor was burnt out but it's been behaving like normal just recently.. then goes slow again randomly. 

The leaks you won't know about on the foot well - like I said earlier, it hides in the sound cushioning under the carpet and is over an inch thick. The tell take sign is your windows misting up at night - if you see that then you have water in there somewhere. 

I had hoped to completely overhaul the safrane in August but my missus took time off work and she gets jealous of the car having so my attention! She was a bit agitated when I was out there fixing the seat runner..

[andyberg]

21 minutes ago, RustyNuts said:

I suspect you have done dried up grease in there somewhere then and the long delay of normal wiping eventually warms it up enough to soften. 

 

The leaks you won't know about on the foot well - like I said earlier, it hides in the sound cushioning under the carpet and is over an inch thick. The tell take sign is your windows misting up at night - if you see that then you have water in there somewhere. 

 

That’s a good point with the wiper motor. 
The windows have misted up a bit recently, I’m guessing mostly because it’s been a bit chilly at night. My other cars in the fleet suffered a bit too. I know the boot is leak free. I’ll have a check on the footwell tomorrow afternoon, I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Thank you again for all your points of experience. 

[RustyNuts]

2 hours ago, andyberg said:

That’s a good point with the wiper motor. 
The windows have misted up a bit recently, I’m guessing mostly because it’s been a bit chilly at night. My other cars in the fleet suffered a bit too. I know the boot is leak free. I’ll have a check on the footwell tomorrow afternoon, I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Thank you again for all your points of experience. 

You're welcome.

The only way to know with the drivers footwell is to press down hard (no guarantee you'll see water) or remove the plastic kick panel and lift the carpet (a bit of a graft to be honest) - I hate this method as it's a pain but reliable.

If you're getting white windows it's not because its cold but because the air pressure is dropping at night. The water is trying to evaporate upwards and becomes trapped on the glass (and sunroof and the metal roof hidden above the liner where you can't see it) and that then leads to your white windows - well, white from outside at least. If it's bad, you have a lot of water somewhere, if it's mild then it's probably just water carried in on the bottom of your shoes when you got in the car from wet ground.

Also, another place to be careful of (concerning your remote locking) is the plastic panel up on the roof where the switches are. At the back (nearest you) there is one small rectangular-ish panel. If you pop your finger nails in at the front of it and pull down, it will come out (exposing the manual winding point for the sunroof should your motor fry). If you see any condensation up there hanging from the metal roof you need to have the panel down and wrap the circuitry in a small but thick plastic bag to stop it getting wet. If you don't that water drops down over it and causes all sorts of mayhem (and this tends to only happen in the colder months when wet - or at least wet inside the car). 

[andyberg]

Checked the drivers carpet of the Safrane this afternoon. All seems good🤞 gave it a good prod and couldn’t feel any dampness. I’ll have a proper look at the weekend. I know the sunroof drains were blocked because water would collect in the centre console by the handbrake but Petrolblog sorted that out. 
my interest has been piqued with a possible France trip to shitefest, so it looks like I’ll be trying to get her prepared for that this summer. It’s an ambition of mine to drive through France and now I would love to do it in some rare French tat.