The law and too many shite cars in the drive

[kelvin2008]

Had a knock on the door yesterday from the local community police support officer who explained that complaints had been made about my two vehicles parked on the road outside my house. When I explained that both had tax in the window, test and insurance and that I parked them outside the drive so that I can actually use them because of other people blocking my exit to use the cash machine next door, her attitude changed and she said if I didnt have so many "scrap" cars in the driveway I could fit them in. At this point my helpful attitude changed into a siege mentality and I said its private land so I can park what I like on it. She said she was going to report me to the council and asked my name. I said you can find that out easy enough from my number plate so I dont see the point in telling you myself and that she can do what shes gotta do. with this she left and spent the next few minutes jotting down my number plate details. What do you think those in power can do? The house is family owned not rented surely a mans home is his castle and all that?

[FredTransit]

yep, the cars on the road are legal, the cars on private land are nothing to do with them! make sure they are all sorned though, as they have to be even if they are on private land. Tell me about it. We have a taxed, tested and insured Mk2 transit minibus parked in a road with no restrictions. It's not a bus route, is not causing an obstruction and is totally legal. Had a letter from the council informing us, as they felt it was abandoned (they admitted it was taxed) they were going to remove it and destroy it if we didn't contact them within 7 days. Lucky for them (and us) the letter arrived despite the postal strike. After an irate conversation the accepted they would not have removed it (so that's a lie then, in writing?). What exactly defines something as abandoned then?

[dollywobbler]

Cor, sounds like a right trumped up wannabe-copper. If you're not working on the cars (ie looking like a business, not just your home DIY) I struggle to see what grounds they'd have against you, unless you've got about twenty cars on your driveway.

[FredTransit]

We currently have 5 vans and a car on the land, only one is taxed, one is SORN'd and the other three are scrappers so apart from a few bits now we are not too worried about them. i don't see it as any of the council's business as to what happens on our land.

[Alpineandy]

If you're genuinely DIY working on them and they aren't causing any 'leakage' pollution, I'm pretty certain that they can't do anything. Although they are a law to themselves and if they send a 'lifting' truck round during the day when you're out, the guy will happily cart them off and you can't actually do much about it (cos no one will listen..........)

[kelvin2008]

3 cars 1 van on front driveway, behind the gate round the back another 3 cars 2 motorbikes so not quite 20 but a fair few, guess I could scrap 2 if I had too but useful for spares as same model as the cars im running on the road, definately wont be scrapping my triumphs. Its a wide road outside the house (the high street) with a council flats large car park next door which I used to park in but got a letter from the council to say dont so back out on the road, cant win can I.

[retro80sboy]

my neighbours must grumble when I come home in yet another car. Ive got 4 vehicles now (see sig), but at the moment a mate is borrowing my MG and the others can fit on my drive.When I get the MG back in a month im going to clear out my garage and try and fit it in there, then there shouldnt be a problem.back to the original post, id very extremly cheesed off if some copper said that to me, especially if she called any of my cars 'scrap'.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

community police support officer

Plastic pigs.Fakeon (not real bacon/pigs innit?)Tell 'em to fuck off.

[FredTransit]

it was a plastic copper who reported me minibus, I had a long conversation with him, after he left a note on the windscreen. Despite this the council saw fit to threaten us with destruction of the van. What I really would like to know is what exactly is the definition of abandoned then? If it means stationary for more than a week, we are all in deep shit!

[Torsten2001]

Round these parts abandoned means parked for more than three weeks in one place!

[retro80sboy]

Round these parts abandoned means parked for more than three weeks in one place!

...in that time around here, its already been broken into!

[FredTransit]

Round these parts abandoned means parked for more than three weeks in one place!

Lovely. How many people go away for whatever reason for more than one month? Also, what happens if you go into hospital, or you mum does in another city? WTF has it got to do with them if it's taxed and legally parked?

[Richard]

If it's an ex-council house you'd better check the deeds carefully, around here at least there are many conditions- some of which relate to vehicles.These conditions are rarely enforced (you're not meant to keep animals other than dogs or cats for instance) but they could be.

[Cavcraft]

If you find you're in the clear then tx/MOT/insure one or two others and stick them on the road just for shits and giggles.Rev. Bluejeans: what a wonderful attitude you have there. 'Plastic coppers' they may be but at least they're trying to help (in general) and I bet you wouldn't complain if one of them spooted someone trying to nick your car or break into your house would you?

[FredTransit]

That's the whole point though, we've had vandalism and thefts, where were they then? Nowhere to be seen. I don't mind the police, but these Hobby Bobbies have far less training and experience, and have (in the general opinion, as per the press) less inclination to actually do anything if there is an actual crime going on in front of them, and given the above (training, ect) I can't really blame them. Talking to them myself, and reading about them the community wardens are a poor replacement for the actual Police.

[VWPowered]

why i moved to france tbh

[nigel bickle]

If the Council Planning Oficers (- usually Enforcement) get involved, it'll turn really nasty.I can highly recommend an excellent (Planning Aware) Barrister & seperate Planning Architect...Thankfully, they ran rings around my Councils legal team.Cost a few bob in Magistrates- then County Courts - but I got my costs back & then some. They will view 'acceptable' (-and I now hold substantive case law & Govt guidelines) as ONE vehicle (any type, road legal or not) per (voters role) resident, working driver. No more ''Storage'' on private grounds is not permitted in residental areas.Thats any vehicle that can't move under its own steam, or hasn't done so in the last 28 days.Their powers are draconian. If you lose -and you'll need deep pockets to win (which sadly won't create a legal precedent) each/every day you are in breach - £1000 fine upwards.Remember the Trabbie man? Graham Goodall? Look what they did to him?Luck peeps.

[mouseflakes]

If the Council Planning Oficers (- usually Enforcement) get involved, it'll turn really nasty.They will view 'acceptable' .. as ONE vehicle (any type, road legal or not) per (voters role) resident, working driver. No more ''Storage'' on private grounds is not permitted in residental areas.Thats any vehicle that can't move under its own steam, or hasn't done so in the last 28 days.Their powers are draconian. If you lose -and you'll need deep pockets to win (which sadly won't create a legal precedent) each/every day you are in breach - £1000 fine upwards.

Crikey - that sent a shiver down my spine. Scary stuff!

[kelvin2008]

wow that sounds bad, maybe I should make room and park one in the drive, but ones staying on the road so I can get my father to hospital in a hurry if need be.

[FredTransit]

I see your point Sir T, but if a fine was handed out, Tesco is more likely to stump up the money that Mr Smith, specially if said offending cars are only worth about £100 each!

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Rev. Bluejeans: what a wonderful attitude you have there. 'Plastic coppers' they may be but at least they're trying to help (in general) and I bet you wouldn't complain if one of them spooted someone trying to nick your car or break into your house would you?

You're very welcome.Without the power to arrest, WTF are they going to do anyway apart from being a pain in the arse? We see them here putting Police parking tickets on cars so yes, they're invaluable.

[dollywobbler]

I sadly must agree with the Reverend. Like the Highways wombles, it's a way of getting more flourescent jackets out there without having to employ actual Police officers. I do feel for the people in the roles though - trying to deal with teenagers who know that they have no power and really do take the piss.

[wuvvum]

If the Council Planning Oficers (- usually Enforcement) get involved, it'll turn really nasty.I can highly recommend an excellent (Planning Aware) Barrister & seperate Planning Architect...Thankfully, they ran rings around my Councils legal team.Cost a few bob in Magistrates- then County Courts - but I got my costs back & then some. They will view 'acceptable' (-and I now hold substantive case law & Govt guidelines) as ONE vehicle (any type, road legal or not) per (voters role) resident, working driver. No more ''Storage'' on private grounds is not permitted in residental areas.Thats any vehicle that can't move under its own steam, or hasn't done so in the last 28 days.Their powers are draconian. If you lose -and you'll need deep pockets to win (which sadly won't create a legal precedent) each/every day you are in breach - £1000 fine upwards.

That is fucking scary. Deepy troubling too that these are official guidelines as it goes against so many of the principles of private property and ownership (principles which have been established in common law for getting on for a thousand years) that it beggars belief. I wonder how much of the case law has been set because the owner couldn't afford to defend himself and the magistrate wasn't clear on the law so the council simply got their own way by default?I have to say though, as someone who has parked / kept / stored probably around 200 vehicles on council land over a period of six years, it's actually rarer than you'd think that a council actually gets round to towing something away. I lost a total of three cars to the council - one of which went while I was on holiday in Mexico (NSU Prinz ), one of which was shagged anyway and the other was actually OK but I'd lost my license for speeding at the time so couldn't risk moving it. I was on pretty much first name terms with the Norwich City Council enforcement officer at one stage, but as has been suggested these people and their departments are usually stretched to the limit, especially with recent cutbacks.I only ever had one proper run-in with the council over a vehicle being towed away - when I was at uni I stood my Escort van on the car park of the local park, and it got a ticket on it after a couple of weeks, so I moved it to the car park of the uni law school just across the road. Council truck came, saw the van over the road and took it anyway. One angry phone call later and I was on my way to the scrapyard to retrieve the van - scrappy was not too happy to see me as he'd lost out on the £105 towing fee, but he had no choice but to give me the van back. Had a run-in with DVLA as well over the car park opposite my old place - they tried to do me for keeping a van on there on a SORN, claiming it was public highway. I refused to pay, they took me to court, I showed them a map from the council planning dept which showed that the car park wasn't public highway. I won, obviously, but I'm still waiting for my apology...

[Father Ted]

Slightly O/T - one of my neighbours complained to the council about a caravan I had on the front lawn - council dude came down and said that it couldnt be kept there and had to be on the driveway ( no room for cars then) or winkingly - a hard standing. He said he would be back in a couple of days to remove it if it was still on the lawn.Quick phone call to the builders merchants and 3 tonnes of tipped golden gravel later it was on a hard standing.Council man happy - neighbours pissed off.Councilman was a caravanner too!

[garethj]

They will view 'acceptable' as ONE vehicle (any type, road legal or not) per resident, working driver. No more

 

''Storage'' on private grounds is not permitted in residental areas.

Hang on, isn't this really really serious?

 

Looks like I've been continously breaking the law for several years, even having a motorbike and a car is illegal if they're kept at the same address?

 

If they want to improve the resedential environment they should pick up the dogshit and broken bottles from the park where my kids play, but that's another rant

[nigel bickle]

Sadly true.If it helps-pm me.

[mattblack]

I'm a bit confused...I thought the police ('fake' or otherwise) dealt with CRIMINAL law...Parking, environmental issues ect would come under CIVIL law, would they not...?

[wuvvum]

They will view 'acceptable' as ONE vehicle (any type, road legal or not) per resident, working driver. No more

 

''Storage'' on private grounds is not permitted in residental areas.

Hang on, isn't this really really serious?

 

Looks like I've been continously breaking the law for several years, even having a motorbike and a car is illegal if they're kept at the same address?

 

This is utterly stupid. What about someone who works as a builder or a plumber and needs a van for work and a car for carting the kids round at the weekend? He's not allowed to own both, so what does he do, sling the kids in the back of the van? I'm sure plod would still be more than happy to fine him if he was caught doing that.

[Station]

We had this:

 

 

Parked in front of our house for four months. It had no tax or MOT and the insurance ran out. We rang the police, and they said they would get it shifted. It then stayed there for another month, so we rang back, and they said it had no owner, there is nothing on the DVLA database??

It's been moved down the road now, it's been there for a year.

 

If the car had an owner, it would've been shifted straight away. If there's no-one to punish, and no-one to get a fine off, they do not care.

 

I don't mind those community officer things, they seem to do more work than the actual police, and do actually target the chav brigade.

However, the police don't answer to the home office, whereas these do, which makes them into some sort of state police thing, like they have in Russia, etc. Start worrying when they get more powers.

[retro80sboy]

We had this:

 

 

Parked in front of our house for four months. It had no tax or MOT and the insurance ran out. We rang the police, and they said they would get it shifted. It then stayed there for another month, so we rang back, and they said it had no owner, there is nothing on the DVLA database??

It's been moved down the road now, it's been there for a year.

 

If the car had an owner, it would've been shifted straight away. If there's no-one to punish, and no-one to get a fine off, they do not care.

 

I don't mind those community officer things, they seem to do more work than the actual police, and do actually target the chav brigade.

However, the police don't answer to the home office, whereas these do, which makes them into some sort of state police thing, like they have in Russia, etc. Start worrying when they get more powers.

If it has no owner, you may be able to claim it.

 

might be worth looking into, if only to stick it on ebay for spares or repairs. Im sure some chav would give you a couple of hundred quid for it at least.