Idly Pondering Shite - BMW Z3 or COVID-19?

[dc2100k]

Well the MSA have withdrawn permits for all club motorsport for the time being - and most likely till at least the end of the summer, if not the end of the year. Therefore it would be rude not to think about starting to prepare next year's vehicle. My current punt-around is an ageing MG ZR that sounds like a bag of spanners and goes like a scalded ocelot. I've given it a good going over in the four months I've had it and done some choice (read budget) mods to make it more rally capable. I think I can get it through it's next MOT with a couple of drop-links and a bit of liquid steel so I will probably run it around until next spring and move it on then.

As it looks like I'm not going to be getting much motorsport between now and next year my mind has turned to what vehicle could be inexpensively snaffled and lightly upgraded for the 2021 season, what with variety being the spice of shite. I would like a RWD car for reasons, and it must be max 4 cylinders/naturally aspirated over 1500cc. This basically leaves MX5s, MR2s, BMW 1 & 3 series, etc. I've already had a couple of MX5s and good as they are I can't be bothered with the rust. MR2s hold no interest to me. BMW 1&3 series might be alright but I think the multi-link rear suspension is a bit fragile on these so the preferred car for rallying is actually the E36 318ti which has the simpler E30 rear suspension. The only problem is I don't really want one. However, I wouldn't mind a Z3 partly because of how awful they look and partly because of how roundly they were derided. 

Has anyone owned one of these heaps of shit? £500 seems to be the entry point, with £1k buying a reasonable looking 75k car with no visible rust. Seems like a bargain to me. I can only imagine prices are going to fall further when all the cut-price Bergeracs become motivated sellers.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003178539648?make=BMW&sort=relevance&model=Z3&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&postcode=eh166jd&advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1501&page=1

Key questions: Is the M44 engine adequate with just 140bhp? Do the pepperpot alloys reference the 1936 BMW 328 or the 1981 Fiesta XR2? what has social distancing done to my mental health?

 

[Schaefft]

I think the Z3 Roadster is still the best looking Z BMW out there, excluding the Z8 of course. The 4-cylinder ones are garbage and underpowered for a BMW sportscar though, a few hundred quid will be more than enough to buy one now, because why would anybody else? Parts will be cheap and knowledge widely available as with most older BMWs now.

[Kiltox]

These aren’t going to ever be any cheaper than they are now. They look like massive bargains. 

[spike60]

I've owned 2000 2.8 manual for about 8 years bought as a cat C from a friend. Despite being ungaraged  in a coastal area  it is largely rust free, the only place it shows is the end of the cosmetic outer sills. Acceleration is brisk and the 2.8 has a Torsen LSD as standard which can pull the cross member off the floor. Check the spot welds under the boot carpet, mine has had one popped since I got it. Auto's and  4 cylinders less prone. Gearchange is notchy which it seems is common.

 

 

 

 

 

[ianbmw]

Dont be swayed by the "it's not a proper bmw usless it's a 6 pot" brigade.

The 4 pots are a lovely balance and return a fair balance between fuel and smiles.

I'd have one

Sent from my SM-A530F using Tapatalk

[dc2100k]

Well that’s a surprisingly positive set of responses. I agree they look quite clown shoe but the early ones on the pepperpots have a slightly retro-retro feel about them that I could maybe learn to love. 

The 4-cylinder is the only game in town for my purposes though. The early 1.9s have 140bhp in just over a tonne so I’d imagine if you keep the motor on song it should make reasonable progress, it’s never going to be fast though. The later 1.8/1.9s only have 120bhp so I’d imagine they feel pretty tardy. I guess I am probably the only person in the UK looking for one of these, I’m going to bide my time though and wait for the arse to really fall out of the modern classic/used car market.

Good to know all panels are bolt on, I’m more worried about chassis corrosion. I’d take a cosmetically challenged one except that mechanical thrashing and general neglect usually goes hand in hand. A hardtop would be nice. What’s the hood situation, I’d like a Manual hood if possible? 

 

Ah the old rear subframe mount issue... having had an E46 M3 I’m aware of this type of problem, don’t think the 1.9 would have the beans to do it though. Was the LSD standard across the range? 

 

Also, what do we think of the 2.8 coupe? LHD only and 6 cylinders too but looks lovely. 

[Schaefft]

I think the 2.8 and 3.0 would definitely be the way to go. The M52 is an amazing engine and the M54 gives you a little more power but also more potential for issues, like oil burning.

[spike60]

Under the bolt on outer  sill you see there is very stout chassis member, mine are in good condition. Hard tops are expensive, they seem to start around £4-500 on ebay with a couple of hundred for a fitting kit last time I looked but they transform the car in terms of stiffness and refinement. Soft tops seem durable but the zip in rear window is a bitch to replace on facelift cars with  built in roll bars behind the seats.

[dc2100k]

13 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

1.9's won't have any boot floor problems - that was more an E46 Z axle thing. Z3's have the Compact (so E30) semi trailing arm rear end. LSD's are very rare on 4 pots. Std only on 2.8 and 3.0 plus the M Coupe thingy. Power hoods rare on 4 cyl ones.

The more I think about a base model early 1.9 the more it seems like a good idea. The E30 rear suspension is tough and you can easily get Bilstein dampers and springs to raise the ride height. LSD not essential, is it a Torsen diff? Manual hood is good, I wonder if you could fabricate a roll bar to fit under it?

 

13 hours ago, Schaefft said:

I think the 2.8 and 3.0 would definitely be the way to go. The M52 is an amazing engine and the M54 gives you a little more power but also more potential for issues, like oil burning.

I have no doubt for a road car they are better but unfortunately MSA blue book says max 4 cylinders. I also have a 996 C2 in the garage which gives me more than enough big-six thrills when I feel like losing my license. My previous S54 had mega performance but as you say went through an almost incomprehensible amount of oil. I topped up a full 8L between oil services once.

 

13 hours ago, spike60 said:

Under the bolt on outer  sill you see there is very stout chassis member, mine are in good condition. Hard tops are expensive, they seem to start around £4-500 on ebay with a couple of hundred for a fitting kit last time I looked but they transform the car in terms of stiffness and refinement. Soft tops seem durable but the zip in rear window is a bitch to replace on facelift cars with  built in roll bars behind the seats.

Great advice. So do I need to pull the outer sill to inspect the inner or can you see it underneath? WRT hardtops they do seem expensive, but would probably be the way to go for a competition car. Can you remove the soft top if you have a hard top fitted?

 

In terms of performance I'm guessing there isn't much you can do to the 1.9 except the standard NA stuff so I imagine 150bhp is probably the limit, is there opportunities for weight saving? On the 996 you can easily shed 50kgs without spending much, maybe 100kgs with little bit of £££. Does the same apply to the Z3? I'm thinking spare wheel/toolkit/Lithium battery/remove airbags/aircon/bucket seats/electric stuffs/lighter exhaust/lighter wheels? Clearly on a road rally car you will have to put back in a pair of full size spares, a much bigger toolkit, possibly a roll bar so the target I suppose would be to stay below the original weight of around 1175kgs.

 

[spike60]

The stiffener inside is not visible from underneath and while taking the outer sill off is not difficult it's not something that's going to happen on a sellers  drive. There's about 12  screws holding it on and I think you need to release the bottom of the small front wing and probably the rear as well to get access. If mine is anything to go by they're not a problem tho,  if  the outer cosmetic  sill is good on the front end I can't see why it wouldn't be dry and clean inside.  One of mine was a bit damaged on the  front end and the heavy inner has surface rust, no more.  Normally the soft top stays in place folded down when the hard top is on, I don't know what's involved  in removing one.

[dc2100k]

19 hours ago, The Mighty Quinn said:

£1500 buys a really, really smart one and 'rust free' is rare. Almost all have some scabby stuff albeit on the panels that are all bolt on including the rear wings. Broken mirrors are common because the alloy mirror base corrodes to the steel swivel pin and they snap off. That £975 one looks alright.

 

Must have been ok as it's gone now.

[dome]

If you're ever near Fife I'd like to change your mind about MR2s. Mine is a MK3 with 190 bhp, it also weighs under 1000kgs...

[Vince70]

I love the M44 4 pot in the 1.9 Z3 its lovely engine and  sounds great, apparently BMW detuned  it and you can add 100bhp to its 140bhp  with decent reliability .
I have both a Ti and a Z3 with this engine as I couldn’t afford an hardtop  for my Zed so it was cheaper to buy another BMW with the same Engine for the winter months.

My Z3 has never been painted or welded and is completely rust free but it’s only a low mileage car with 60 odd thousand on the clock and is dripping with waxoyl underneath and i have filled the Cills with the stuff also and doesn’t see any road salt.

The mirrors do seize and can snap and are quite expensive to buy as it’s a common fault but there’s a company that makes new mirrors bases for under £100 in fibreglass which are better than the original items so  don’t corrode like the original units and the original fixtures and fittings bolt on them also they are spring loaded so push back.

Another thing to look for on the Zed is rocking seats but again a very easy fix as new  spacers are now available for about £10 to fix and it’s a nice easy job and also the boots like filling up with water but that’s normally the £3 seal from the high level brake light.

Over the years I’ve owned an MX5 plus a Smart roadster and the Zed and I think the Zed  is the best compromise out the lot and I must like it as it’s the longest I’ve ever owned a car and think I will be buried in the thing.

Mine has the 16inch James Bond wheels but I prefer the 15 inch pepper pots and apparently they are a better steer with the 15 inch wheels so I bought a set 5 years ago but have yet to put them on lol.

Everywhere I go with it I get asked how much I paid for it as it must of cost a fortune but it does look a picture but in reality I paid £1100 for it as it was looking a little bit neglected with a rip in the rear window.

Also mine is manual hood so they’re available (plus it has the most gorgeous red leather interior) and I had a new original quality roof fitted for £320 a few years back as the material does shrink overtime. 

 

[Schaefft]

Orange indicators are an instant win, especially on a black one.

[dc2100k]

On 3/22/2020 at 1:44 PM, The Mighty Quinn said:

I know of one for 1300 quid-ish in W'London. It's red and very nice. P reg I think.

By all means send me the details but I think I’m going to wait till Autumn before I make any moves on a Z3. There’s plenty out there so I might try to find one with a hardtop, save me the hassle and expense of retrofitting one. 

 

On 3/22/2020 at 2:48 PM, dome said:

If you're ever near Fife I'd like to change your mind about MR2s. Mine is a MK3 with 190 bhp, it also weighs under 1000kgs...

I’m in Edinburgh so not far at all. When all this corona shit is over we should have a meet up I’d like to get a closer look at a Mk3. Did you drop the VVTLi engine from a Corolla in it? I’ve got to say I prefer the ZR160 to a Corolla T-Sport I tried but in a lighter car (Elise Mk2?) it was very rapid.

[Pete-M]

I had a 318ti compact for a short while. It wasn't a bad thing. Didn't handle as well as the 318iS but that's down to the E30 rear end on the Compact. 

[dc2100k]

On 3/22/2020 at 6:44 PM, Vince70 said:

I love the M44 4 pot in the 1.9 Z3 its lovely engine and  sounds great, apparently BMW detuned  it and you can add 100bhp to its 140bhp  with decent reliability .
I have both a Ti and a Z3 with this engine as I couldn’t afford an hardtop  for my Zed so it was cheaper to buy another BMW with the same Engine for the winter months.

My Z3 has never been painted or welded and is completely rust free but it’s only a low mileage car with 60 odd thousand on the clock and is dripping with waxoyl underneath and i have filled the Cills with the stuff also and doesn’t see any road salt.

The mirrors do seize and can snap and are quite expensive to buy as it’s a common fault but there’s a company that makes new mirrors bases for under £100 in fibreglass which are better than the original items so  don’t corrode like the original units and the original fixtures and fittings bolt on them also they are spring loaded so push back.

Another thing to look for on the Zed is rocking seats but again a very easy fix as new  spacers are now available for about £10 to fix and it’s a nice easy job and also the boots like filling up with water but that’s normally the £3 seal from the high level brake light.

Over the years I’ve owned an MX5 plus a Smart roadster and the Zed and I think the Zed  is the best compromise out the lot and I must like it as it’s the longest I’ve ever owned a car and think I will be buried in the thing.

Mine has the 16inch James Bond wheels but I prefer the 15 inch pepper pots and apparently they are a better steer with the 15 inch wheels so I bought a set 5 years ago but have yet to put them on lol.

Everywhere I go with it I get asked how much I paid for it as it must of cost a fortune but it does look a picture but in reality I paid £1100 for it as it was looking a little bit neglected with a rip in the rear window.

Also mine is manual hood so they’re available (plus it has the most gorgeous red leather interior) and I had a new original quality roof fitted for £320 a few years back as the material does shrink overtime. 

 

Your cars look great. Those alloys that you’ve got on the 318ti are supposed to be forged and very light. Thanks for all the good info, I will maybe try to get out and take a couple for a test drive once all this is over.