4x4's

[HillmanImp]

I know Pog was on about what 4X4 to get t'other week, but i am after something that i can:a) take up off roading inb) carry shit loads of mountain bikes and camping gear inb) is as cheap to buy, run and maintain as possibleWhilst i always think i want a series 3 LR, for the money i think i might end up with a Cherokee, but is this the right choice?I want to take it to the PEPSI MAX! Actually, i am not a nonce, but do want an off roader with a lot of space that i can maintain. Any life experiences?

[scooters]

the cheapest and toughest 4x4 money can by is the excellent Lada Cossack.they stopped being imported into the UK in 1997 but there are plenty avaliable - they usually come up on ebay and you can get one for a hell of a lot less than the price of a Landroverthey are a lot cheaper to run than the cherokee which was always a bit of a Chelsea tractor.Seriously - laugh ye not the Lada 4x4 in its various forms is a proper off road vehicle designed for the toughest of use and environments. Solid engines, good cheap parts avaliability built of serious metal and it will go places other 4x4s won't - they have been supplied to the Russian army and before it the Red Army for years and are very capable

[pogweasel]

I have had my fair share of 'series' land rovers. They will tick all your boxes for space and will take you further into the rough than anything else. Most likely will use less juice than a Cherokee too. BUT unless you are seriously masochistic they are not the best choice... deafening noise, cramped interior, "impale me!" steering wheels (often coupled with no seatbelts and always teamed with loads of bare metal in the cabin), bouncy ride, boat-like steering that requires constant correction, really quite horrible Later coil-sprung 90's/110's/defenders are better to drive, but that's still comparitive. All Land Rovers are like big mechano kits though, if a mechanical simpleton like me can keep one from the scrappy, anyone can.Cherokee's are cheap, will go off-road well. Though you could also go for a Range Rover which would rot less than a cherokee and be comparable on economy, space, performance and comfort....

[garbaldy]

yup get a trooper, there is a very good forum with loads off advice on mods and they have regular off roading get togethers

[Milford Cubicle]

 

This is what you need.

 

Failing that, Troopers are very good value for money.

Or get a Fourtrak if you don't need something so huge. They are great fun - surprisingly nippy and great for drifting around greasy roundabouts.

[garbaldy]

 

This is what you need.

 

Failing that, Troopers are very good value for money.

Or get a Fourtrak if you don't need something so huge. They are great fun - surprisingly nippy and great for drifting around greasy roundabouts.

fourtrack is a very good jeep but dont go for any older than 96 as they where leaf sprung like an old landy unless you are 100% confident in your dentists work

the last trooper i had is now in the hands off my brother and he is getting a tad over 600 miles to a tank

[dollywobbler]

Fourtrak also has one of the worst turning circles I've ever encountered. 530 point turn for the lose!Trooper is a good call. Mk1 very agricultural but would turn on a sixpence - Citation models have a limited slip diff - though all Troopers have piss-poor axle articulation compared to something like a Landy/Jeep. Good owners' forum though, as has been mentioned.I've seen Jeeps take astonishing amounts of abuse off-road but a Land Rover Discovery may be worth considering. Yes, it'll break but most parts are not that expensive.

[Milford Cubicle]

Land Rovers are pretty piss poor value for money though.I suppose some J off-roaders are pretty poor value too. Take the Mitsubishi Challenger - my friend picked one up for £1400 earlier this year. They're all about £3k on eBay though!

[HillmanImp]

I have looked at Lada Niva's but they seem too small. I imagine they would be pretty grim to drive over long distances too. Trooper looks like it might be a good idea, and seem to go for reasonable money. Will get on the forum and see what the griff is.From looking, Discovery's seem to go for a lot of money in comparison to the equivalent foreign cars but maybe thats because they are good at what they do.Going to start saving and keep my eyes on e-bay. If i see something going for a good price i might just snap it up.Ta for the advice chaps.

[pogweasel]

Discovery: expensive? I think not. They seem to be much cheaper than anything elser round here - pick up an early one for £500 or thereabouts no problem. Japanese stuff seems to go for much more, even if it's not road legal. That said, Sooki Vitaras are dirt cheap. Bin off the back seats for bike space, then head off to the muck, they are pretty good. And unlike the Niva are OK on the road as well. Be prepared for 'hairdresser' comments though!

[Dead_E23]

a) take up off roading in

Some kind of Land Rover would probably be the best option if you want to do this - a Discovery 300 TDi could be a good choice. Not for any technical reason, but simply because a lot of off-roaders have them and tend to be very welcoming to people who are 'one of us', less so if you're 'one of them'. This is partly a 'scene' thing - there is a huge Land Rover 'scene', meaning lots of clubs, shows and very easy availability of parts and accessories compared to other makes. Strangely, it doesn't seem to inflate vehicle prices much apart from for Defenders. Bits are very cheap indeed and if you need anything like diff guards or recovery points (you will certainly need the latter) then you'll have a much easier time finding them for a LR.Also, because people are more familiar with Land Rovers in terms of their capabilities, where the recovery points are, how to resuscitate dead/drowned engines etc, you'll find it easier to get invited along on off roading trips. A lot of the people who are into this stuff find it very important to demonstrate their capability to others at every opportunity (often in quite a sad and tiresome way which involves strutting around in high visibility jackets or attempting dangerously ill-planned winch recoveries), so the possibility that they may need to attempt a recovery on an unfamiliar vehicle does not appeal to them one bit - needing to admit defeat or allow someone more capable take over is anathema to them. Also, nobody wants a less capable vehicle in the group which is constantly grounding out and needing recovered - that spoils the day for everyone.There's also an ultra-conservative (small c) side to off-roading, best exemplified by the laning organisations CRAG and GLASS (which you should really join if you want to go green laning). These take a 'tread lightly' approach to driving which avoids damaging the surface at all costs. It's much more technical than a lot of the 'mud plugging' that you see at 'pay and play' off road sites, and I much prefer it - not least because it's much less damaging to the vehicle. Green Laners tend to be distrustful of particular 4x4 brands because they associate them with 'tearaways'. Turn up in a LR and you're much more likely to be accepted just as long as it's not wearing Simex tyres or (shudder) Maxi Cross.I shall now open the floor for the 'I've got a Vitara/Frontera/Shogun and you're so wrong...' debate

[Cavcraft]

Seems the world is your lobster when it comes to 4x4 choice. I have limited experience in these things but having driven a 1995-ish Jeep 4.0 Cherokee(?) thing about 40 miles once I think I'd sooner walk than own one, I found it a horrible car.Off-road been about three or four times to a 'pay and play' site (local quarry) and had a riot in a couple of Fronterror Sports I owned. Yes, snobs in flashy Chelsea tractors will tell you they're shit, they have all the street cred of a white dog turd and they're not likely to top anyone's wish list if they haven't owned one before, or probably even if they have!. However... they're great fun, very robust, an absolute doddle to work on, very reliable and pretty good on fuel. The 8V petrol engines are bullet proof and you can remove rear windows and roof and twat round the off road course getting caked in shit.Limited to accessories such as snorkels etc as they (Fronetras) aren't fashionable but they can be jacked up easily enough and you could probably make a snorkel off something else fit if you wanted.I'm not saying they're any better than any other 4x4 but they're cheap and do a good job.

[dollywobbler]

I'm not saying they're any better than any other 4x4 but they're cheap and do a good job.

That's a good call really. Also, don't buy something you like if you want to off-road in it. I played in a quarry in my Trooper once and spent the whole time cringing (apart from when I was stuck due to the axle articulation limitations...) though I did drive up one particularly steep hill on three wheels - that limited slip diff was incredible!

[Cavcraft]

I think you could buy a 4x4 and off road it as well as use it daily mate, I certainly did.I got the feeling it would be very easy to go out of your depth though as we saw some 'proper' off-roaders hooning round the toughest parts and making it look like childs play.We then saw some people in ill-equipped basic 4x4s trying to follow suit and failing spectaculary. The site of some bloke in a standard Freelander up to his waist in water inside his completely knackered car as his fags, lighter and bits of paperwork flowed round was one I'll never forget

[pandamonium]

Lada Niva.

[shite_meister]

I'd like to suggest the Lada Niva also but as you've already discounted that may I suggest that the LandRover Disco would be a wise choice, they're high at the (roof line) so you'll cram your shite in there nicely and they're fairly comfortable with shit-loads of parts available.Not sure about the Jeep Cherokee, my head says 'Fuck No!' after dealing with many through work, the parts are stupidly expensive although the not sure bit about them is that they're built for lard-arse yanks so they're bloody comfortable and I quite like the size of them-wouldn't have thought that a great size for bikes mind.As much as I love the Series lot of Landies I think they're 'kin awfull to drive and have little in the way of leg-room or comfort...unless you're of wee-Jimmy Crankie proportions?Colc lent me his really old Shogun some time ago and I'd consider one-but a TDi.