Rave's Clio Baccara- Yes Sir, I Am Buggered - scrap or try to save?

[Rave]

Earlier this year I bought a Clio Baccara from another shiter for a very reasonable sum. As usual with me, my original plan to fettle it a bit, put it through an MOT and enjoy it for a bit before passing it on didn't happen, and it's been dumped at my mate's house ever since, though it's been driven round his garden a few times when it's been in the way. He's finally got fed up with it though and has ordered me to get rid of it.

 

So I charged the battery and drove it up and down a few times to free off the brakes, which turned out to be fine. I figured I'd stick it up on my newly acquired ramps and have a quick look underneath, just in case. Unfortunately, what I found was a rusty patch I could poke a hole through with my fingers. It was on a sort of external bracing section at the front though, so I figured it would be easy enough to cut the rotten bit out and weld a patch on. My experience of Clios has been that they are really well galvanized, and don't really rot much at all.

 

So today having bought a bit bottle of argon mix and loaded all my kit in the back of my 106, I began merrily cutting what I thought was the rotten bit out. This is what I found:

 

 

Basically there seem to be at least three seperate sheets of metal meeting at the front, and they're all completely rotten. Without taking off the side skirt (which seems to be undersealed on) I can't see what the outer sill is like. It might be fine, but might need to be cut off anyway to get access to the rest of it. There are holes in the floor, so the carpet would need to come up etc. etc. It's fixable of course, very little isn't, but for an amateur welder like me with rudimentary cutting and shaping kit available it's going to be a couple of days work at the very least. I would need to pay to get it recovered to my own house to get it done, I've outstayed my welcome at my friend's house. And there's every chance that the MOT man will find something else wrong with it; it smells pretty strongly of unburned fuel when started; I was hoping that an Italian tune up on the way to the testing station might see it scrape through the emissions test.

 

If it was a bog standard Clio then I'd have called a scrap man already- but it isn't. I can't quite figure out how to interrogate How Many Left, but there can't be more than about 20 Baccaras still on the database. But on the flip side, this one has been converted to a manual gearbox (which is what attracted me to it in the first place, but does mean it's not original), and it's really pretty scruffy; all the window trims are going manky, the paint on the roof is screwed, the sunroof has been siliconed, etc. The interior would clean up OK with a bit of leather dye.

 

 

 

So as I see it, I have four options. I'm not at all fussed about the small amount of money and time the car owes me at the moment, but I do want to be sensible about spending any more of either on it. I should be able to get it moved to my house for 50 quid or so, it's only 5 miles and it'll drive onto a beavertail no bother.

 

1: call a scrappy, get a ton or so for it.

 

2: Recover it to my house, see if I can get anything for the Baccara bits then scrap the shell.

 

3: Recover it to my house, try and sell it as is and hope another enthusiast wants it enough to take it on.

 

4: Recover it to my house, spend at least two days on a serious weldathon, then try and get it through an MOT.

 

What do you reckon folks? Is it worth saving? Would I be doing the shite car world a service keeping this alive, or has it had its chips?

I gather that other, older Baccara models have become somewhat valuable now, and I daresay a lot of people now regret scrapping their Mk1 2 door Escorts and the like because of a bit of rot. But I don't have anywhere to keep this as a speculative investment, so saving it really would be an act of charity on my part, because I'd be selling it on afterwards.

[Angrydicky]

It's easy for me to say this, but for that amount of rust and bearing in mind the car's rarity, it deserves to be saved.

 

You'll have to get the side skirt off and then cut a decent section of outer sill out to gain access to repair the inner, the floor and then weld the outer sill back up again. Is the damage localised to one section of one side? I suspect this has been caused by a blocked sunroof drain and/or water leaking through the sunroof into the car. The outer sill is probably at least thin at that point, if not holed. 

At least the side skirt should hide the section of outer sill you'll need to cut out to gain access, so you shouldn't need to fuck about grinding down welds/fillering and painting - just slap some hammerite and waxoyl in there before refitting the skirt. Shouldn't take much more than 2-3 days assuming the corrosion doesn't extend further.

The window frames have gone like that on mine too, it's a bit irritating but just the nature of a car that's spent 20+ years outside in all weathers. 

[Parky]

If you are going to weigh it in, please save the interior bits as they are probably worth a decent sum to other Baccara owners or any Clio perv who wants a luxury interior. Be a shame to see all that leather get lost.

 

And he wheels. They are unique to the model and must be rarer than rare

[The Moog]

Depends on your CBA and time.

 

Rare car doesn't mean it is worth owt. Got a S1 Rover 820si which isn't exactly abundant but not worth that much.

 

If it is a mission for you or something you enjoy or a project I would go for it.

 

Otherwise offer it about to see if anyone else fancies taking it on. I wouldn't send it straight to scrap although I don't have to deal with friends wanting off drive and costs of transporting it.

[bramz7]

Oh wow I did not know it was that bad underneath!

 

Also worth remembering it has that unique parcel shelf with the suit carrier zip section.

 

It will definitely also need new brakes, be it both discs and pads potentially, as it was AWFUL at slowing down on motorways. Otherwise, engine wise, it seemed spot on. The CD player stereo is also super rare.

[Split_Pin]

I don't want to spend your money or time for you but I would suggest giving it a good going over and see what else it needs for an MOT, such as brake lines, ball joints and bushes. If not much then I'd say its worth welding up ir at least having a go. Might as well put to use the gear you bought. If its too far gone, save all the rare bits for others and bin.

[Rave]

Cheers all. That was what I wanted to be told, in all honesty. Just texted a man with a beavertail...

 

Oh wow I did not know it was that bad underneath!

 

Also worth remembering it has that unique parcel shelf with the suit carrier zip section.

 

It will definitely also need new brakes, be it both discs and pads potentially, as it was AWFUL at slowing down on motorways. Otherwise, engine wise, it seemed spot on. The CD player stereo is also super rare.

 

As is often the way cutting out one small section of rust revealed a load more hiding underneath. I was half tempted to just sling the patch on anyway, there's enough good metal around it all that I could have just covered it all up and the MOT man would have had no way of knowing about the missing bits, but then I would have had to cut it off again to re-do the job properly, which seems daft.

 

I thought the brakes were alright from <10mph, it'll stop the MOT rollers no probs. New front discs and pads are only 29 quid, but the rears seem to have the wheel bearings in them and are loadsamoney. I might be able to clean them up.

[egg]

HML and Baccara's

 

16 Licenced and 36 SORN'd I reckon.

 

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/renault_clio_baccara_1.8_auto

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/renault_clio_baccara_a

https://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/renault_clio_baccara_auto

[Rave]

Annoyingly the beavertail guy who moved my Focus for 50 quid last year wants 80 for this job. Back to Shiply then I guess!

[SiC]

I wish my 1100 needed such little welding work!

 

Remember that you don't have to make it look OEM. As long as it's strong, it doesn't even have to look pretty. Especially on somewhere hidden like this.

[Rave]

Remember that you don't have to make it look OEM. As long as it's strong, it doesn't even have to look pretty. Especially on somewhere hidden like this.

 

Lol. It'll look an absolute dog's breakfast when I've finished with it, I can assure you!

[D Spares & Tyres]

You have trade insurance now, right?

 

Just book a test and drive it. Ring the garage and say it broke down on the way.

 

But... Do you actually want it? If so, yes do it. That welding looks easy. If you just want to move it on then maybe remove a few bits and scrap it unless it sells on here. Not worth the stress of dealing with idiots that a cheap car will attract!

 

That's my opinion anyway!

[SiC]

Lol. It'll look an absolute dog's breakfast when I've finished with it, I can assure you!

Hit it with a hammer after welding it. If it dents but the welds haven't cracked or failed, just cover it with paint or underseal. That's been my rule with the 1100.

[D Spares & Tyres]

I wish my 1100 needed such little welding work!

Remember that you don't have to make it look OEM. As long as it's strong, it doesn't even have to look pretty. Especially on somewhere hidden like this.

It doesn't even have to be strong. Just cover any shi t welds up with seam sealer or whatever. Testers aren't allowed to remove it. They will just tap or poke it.

[SiC]

It doesn't even have to be strong. Just cover any shi t welds up with seam sealer or whatever. Testers aren't allowed to remove it. They will just tap or poke it.

But I could never do that nor recommend it of course. Even if most of the other metal is perfectly strong enough. I'd get flashbacks of me welding that piece everytime someone cut in front of me and then slammed on the brakes, leaving me to brake harder and hope I don't go in the back and have the welds fail at the worst possible moment.

 

But I suppose it at least saves the car for when it's worth a few pennies more and then the next person can do it properly.

[Rave]

If I'm doing it I'll do my utmost to make it as strong as possible, it'll just look shite with lumps of metal and pigeon shit weld everywhere. It won't be visible so it won't matter.

It's tempting to do the pre-booked MOT and drive it, but I'll be a bit stuffed if they look underneath it...also I like my local MOT station and don't want to annoy them.

[dieselassist]

as long as the actual rust is cut out, n you bash up a patch or two to the best of your ability n weld that in, you've done the car some service, n it might even test after that, with brake work or whatever - its lived on for another year...

 

I 'spose it depends on if you have the time/can be bothered/like the car etc

[dieselassist]

...its a bit different over here; as regards presenting a car like that for NCT (test) - they get big on the drama n cover the car with heavey adhesive stickers denoting -'THIS CAR IS DANGEROUS UNROADWORTHY N SHOULD NOT BE DRIVEN' n advise (enforce in some test centres) that the car be recovered on a trailer/truck etc...

 

I used to send up cars that were a bit 'unknown' for their 'X factor style audition' at the NCT barn to get a list a faults etc., but its not a simple as that these days here....

 

if your welds are bit flat n blobby you can always just linish them down; keep welding till MAX penetration n a continuous weld is achieved...

[Rave]

Sorry, I meant I'll be in bother if plod stop me and look under the car. I won't stick it in for test till it's fixed.

 

I was under the impression that cars are mainly just spot welded together anyway? I took most of the bottom section of the outer sill off my Fiesta with a chisel. Whatever repair panels I stick in there will be fully seam welded together, (as well as spot welded where they were originally, if that's obvious) they just probably won't be lovely smooth, continuous seam welds, is all. It should be stronger than original when I've finished with it. I'm still not sure why it's double skinned there as it doesn't seem to be a load bearing section- perhaps it's reinforced as a jacking point? I'll try and replicate the original arrangement by welding a second plate around where it was thicker before, I guess. Then underseal the hell out of it to stop that being a moisture trap   .