Bill Lyons TV interview, 1977.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

A truly remarkable chap, wouldn't you say?

 

[somewhatfoolish]

Like most demagogues he didn't play well with others; once inside BL he killed several promising designs, most notably for me the Rover BS coupe.

[Tamworthbay]

I work with a relative of his, I won’t say anymore.

[Guest Hooli]

Fascinating.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Lyons was a workaholic who suffered appalling migraines for years - bad enough to make you vomit. I don't think he was incredibly wealthy either - a millionaire of course but not in the same league as McCartney for example. He certainly found the right people to have around him to produce some astounding cars. He was incredibly astute with money which is why an XJ6 cost half as much as a 350SE Merc.

 

Ken Jenkins the Jaguar bloke has some very good stories about him. 

[Tamworthbay]

Oh, one of those poor millionaires........

[HMC]

Brilliant footage. I wonder what Lyons thought of all the interest in the old models?

 

he was a pragmatist after all. Similar to Ferrari, always thinking of the next project, apparently they had a road roller at the factory in Modena and stuff (prototypes, obsolete racers etc) would get flattened regularly, a museum was the last thing on his mind.

[warren t claim]

Is Norman Dewis still alive?

[dollywobbler]

Is Norman Dewis still alive?

 

Yes. Saw him on Saturday. Looked as chipper as ever, and I think he's 98 now.

[warren t claim]

Yes. Saw him on Saturday. Looked as chipper as ever, and I think he's 98 now.

 

I genuinely dread adding him to our Autoshite Dead Pool thread.

[dollywobbler]

Brilliant footage. I wonder what Lyons thought of all the interest in the old models?

 

he was a pragmatist after all. Similar to Ferrari, always thinking of the next project, apparently they had a road roller at the factory in Modena and stuff (prototypes, obsolete racers etc) would get flattened regularly, a museum was the last thing on his mind.

 

Certainly, Jaguar threw a lot of stuff away. Took quite a while for a preservation movement to spring up. It's said the entire build records were dumped in a skip in the 1970s and only saved by employees (who gave them to the JDHT so they can now issue certificates confirming build details). But, going right back, apparently loads of old photos and records were dumped in Blackpool with the move to Coventry. Very much a company that looked forward rather than back. Even the very first XK120 was broken up for scrap, though I know where bits of it are... (allegedly).

[HMC]

He’s indestructible (dewis) given what his job entailed. All The blokes in suits are no longer with us, is Bob Knight still with us?

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

He's written a very good book apparently. I spoke to him at the JEC 30 years thing at Thoresby Park in 2015 and I'm surprised he's made it this far. Won't be any of these old boys left soon.

 

That was an excellent show - Paul Frere's Mark 1 3.4, a LeMans C Type and Bill's personal Series 2 XJ5.3 VdP.

 

I would have loved to ask Lyons about films such as 'Robbery' where Mark II Jags were used as getaway cars. Would he have been horrified or quietly proud? 

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

 All The blokes in suits are no longer with us, is Bob Knight still with us?

 

 

 

Alas no.

http://www.clclassics.co.uk/bob-knight-jaguar-engineering-icon/

 

But John Egan and Jim Randle certainly are. Randle owns an XJ40!

[warren t claim]

 

 

I would have loved to ask Lyons about films such as 'Robbery' where Mark II Jags were used as getaway cars. Would he have been horrified or quietly proud? 

I think he liked the free publicity.

[HMC]

^ Ha ha, good question. Hard to tell. Apparently he was very formal, hard to get close to and kept his cards close to his chest. He did like initiative though; I recon he would quietly approve.

 

Edit- as per WTC yes free publicity he’d love that

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I think he liked the free publicity.

 

 

 

Thinking about it, Jaguar did lend a primrose 4.2 Roadster press car. The chase is what inspired the Mustang/Charger chase in Bullitt.

[warren t claim]

^ Ha ha, good question. Hard to tell. Apparently he was very formal, hard to get close to and kept his cards close to his chest. He did like initiative though; I recon he would quietly approve.

 

Edit- as per WTC yes free publicity he’d love that

I believe no employee of his was ever on first name terms with him.

 

I'd like to ask why he continued to race his cars in the 1955 Le Mans after the horrific Mercedes crash.

[HMC]

How true I don’t know but I heard Lyons placed some sort of bet with knight about it and the result was the Jag IRS developed at almost no notice.

[warren t claim]

And I'd like to know why he killed off the excellent Daimler V8 engines.

[HMC]

I believe no employee of his was ever on first name terms with him.

 

I'd like to ask why he continued to race his cars in the 1955 Le Mans after the horrific Mercedes crash.

Indeed (and they went on to win) Similarly at another Le Mans in the 50s (I forget which) it was apparent at one point that way too many mechanics were trying to fettle the leading Ferrari (which went on to win) he was given a platform to protest (potential disqualification and a jag victory) but he didn’t.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

Because they were developing the V12. Which was a lot better.

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

I think he liked the free publicity.

 

Doesn't get much better than this. The Mark II wasn't even a new one so it cost him nothing.

 

[HMC]

Villain/robbery/sweeney/Brannigan compilation

Benny from crossroads too by the looks of it!

[somewhatfoolish]

And I'd like to know why he killed off the excellent Daimler V8 engines.

Money mostly, although 'not invented here' probably figured; sales of Daimlers would not justify keeping 2 orphan engines in production when every other product used the XK6. Depending on where you start from there may be costs; given the way BSA/Daimler were run the production machinery for the V8s may have been knackered and producing V8s on the same machines as in-line engines is problematic.

 

On the other hand the big Daimler could easily have been developed to produce as much power as the V12.

[sierraman]

I think the ‘bad lad’ reputation the old jags had did them well really, otherwise they would have been seen as old farts cars.

[Skut]

There's a reticence there that I'm not sure really exists anymore. I have a feeling if he saw an X-type he'd describe it as 'unfortunate'

 

For all the apparent aloofness I read that in the mid 60s he was one of the only car company bosses you could still call direct.

[lesapandre]

I met Lyons as a child with my grandfather- he was on the Jaguar stand at Earls Court circa 1967. He gave me some brochures to the the 420 and 420g. Beautiful things with tissue paper inserts. I no longer have them alas. Interesting when you have the company boss on the stand. I think it was press day.

 

Regards racing after the Mercedes crash - Lyons only son was killed on the way to the 1955 Le Mans 24-hours race - I think Jaguar kept going. Pre the internet and all this gossip stuff I think people just kept going in adversity and there was less sniping at peoples decisions. 

[SierraMikeHotel]

I think it was more that post-war generation. They had been inured to loss of life and carried on as if Ginger hadn't come back from a sortie.

 

It's horrible, really, a sort of collective post traumatic stress disorder

 

There's an excellent book about British post-war jet fighters and their test pilots that considers this, Empire of the Skies by James Hamilton Patterson.

[HMC]

I met Lyons as a child with my grandfather- he was on the Jaguar stand at Earls Court circa 1967. He gave me some brochures to the the 420 and 420g. Beautiful things with tissue paper inserts. I no longer have them alas. Interesting when you have the company boss on the stand. I think it was press day.

 

Regards racing after the Mercedes crash - Lyons only son was killed on the way to the 1955 Le Mans 24-hours race - I think Jaguar kept going. Pre the internet and all this gossip stuff I think people just kept going in adversity and there was less sniping at peoples decisions. [/size]

Also Mercedes took a while to pull out (the remaining merc fangio/moss) as the big bloke (neuerbauer?) had to get approval from the dB board and John fitch (co driver of the crashed merc) was pushing very hard to get the team to withdraw too.

 

This took quite some while; and the race itself was left to run by the organisers who felt calling time on it would cause problems with the emergency services getting access with the resulting mass exodus.

 

So the race ran on, DB only pulled the remaining merc during the night, with the race still on jag (hawthorn/bueb) were suddenly first.