invacar LightBulbFun's Invacar & general ramble thread, index on page 1, survivors lists on Pages 24/134 & AdgeCutler's Invacar Mk12 Restoration from Page 186 onwards, still harping on...

[egg]

Nor me, I decided it was too wide to get down my side passage, matron...

[OldBlokeInACaravan]

30 minutes ago, egg said:

Nor me, I decided it was too wide to get down my side passage, matron...

Ay up missus! 

[LightBulbFun]

in other hobby news, I got some more lightbulbs for the collection, these 6  saw these for a good price and had to grab em, I specifically was quite pleased to get these as I had a couple during my childhood and im glad to have some in the collection once more

there was a chain of lighting/electrical shops I used to spend all my pocket money in and they mostly sold household lamps and fluorescent tubes etc, but the odd store here and there had more specialised and odd lamps and one store had a few of these on the shelves and I remember being quite excited as they where my first working big lightbulbs, something with an E40 cap rather then Bayonet or E27!

although the Store had to order in a suitable E40 lamp holder for me before I was able to light mine! (being a more household orientated store they did not normally stock Giant Edison screw lamp holders!)

I also remember them well as because they are still "regular" incandescent lightbulbs, part of the same General Lighting Service GLS, range as your regular 60W or 100W lightbulb just a bit bigger!, but as such they got the same box art as a 60W lightbulb would, and the thought of a 300W lightbulb in a table lamp has always amused me LOL

(and it was just amusing to see such a relatively large lamp in regular consumer type boxes, I mean you would never find a regular Joe buying one of these for their living room LOL)

they are also quite interesting from a technical stand point, having coiled coiled filaments, which are generally not found on lamps above 150W-200W, and compared to other 300W lamps they have a reduced bulb size

these examples date to August 2005  

hopefully in the next few days, I can work up some strength and clear off my work desk to light one  

as a side note I do wonder if GE made larger then 300W GLS lamps in Europe, but I dont know for sure, I know these ones are of an originally Tungsram design from when GE took over that lamp manufacture in the early 1990s and I know that company did make larger GLS lamps but I dont know if GE continued to make them after they took over the company

[AdgeCutler]

A short video update for those interested. As you'd expect given the state of the car every nut and bolt has been putting up a fight until the last thread, I'm glad at the ones that shear off at the beginning of their travel. I live in hope that the fixings on the engine are a little happier to move, though I'm doubtful.

 

[egg]

Love the videos @AdgeCutler - have a look at this channel Claytoncruiser he's rebuilt some Villiers engines on his channel. Also may be worth talking to the guy who has the road registered MK12 that I was lucky enough to drive, could pass on contact details (or LBF has them).

[LightBulbFun]

18 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

A short video update for those interested. As you'd expect given the state of the car every nut and bolt has been putting up a fight until the last thread, I'm glad at the ones that start at the beginning of their travel. I live in hope that the fixings on the engine are a little happier to move, though I'm doubtful.

 

happy to see work continuing on your Mk12E  

on the exhaust front, there may be a couple heat exchangers available still from here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Villiers/permalink/1285531221605540/

and here

https://www.facebook.com/groups/950689934973969/permalink/3250885704954369

dont know what shape they are in compared to yours exactly or if they are still available etc, but might be worth asking about just incase!  

 

 

also just incase you missed it (since I noticed when I posted it you had just left a comment also so may have flown under the radar)

here are some instruction manuals and handbooks you may find handy  (they are on Page 171 if you want to go to them directly)

On 10/12/2020 at 00:15, Zelandeth said:

All right, here's the documentation which came with the little tool roll a week or so back.  There's a better scan of the main user's manual here where I used a blocking sheet to reduce the bleed through of text from the next page as that annoys the heck out of me when reading scanned stuff.

This lot was MEANT to have been scanned at 600dpi...Except I'm an idiot.  I'd set the GREYSCALE TEXT dropdown menu to 600dpi...The colour scan one was still at the default!  Oops.

Invacar Mark 12E Instruction Manual 1969-70_revised.pdf 2.97 MB · 8 downloads

How to Keep Your Motor-Cycle Tyres Fit Brochure.pdf 2.19 MB · 4 downloads

How to Prevent a Flat Tyre Complimentary Brochure.pdf 933.66 kB · 3 downloads

Villiers Mark 9E 11E-4SFR 36A and 37A Two Stroke Engine Users Handbook.pdf 11.76 MB · 5 downloads

I'll come back to this in a few days and try to get high resolution scans...just irked I didn't spot it this evening.

 

as for the shocks the

the Front coil-over is an Armstrong 62 S0876

the Rear coil-overs are Armstrong S/62/2586

I was not able to find much on google for those numbers sadly, but may still be handy incase someone can cross reference them

 

hopefully some of this info comes in handy! keep up the good work  

[AdgeCutler]

Thanks Egg, I'll take a look at the channel you suggest, I see he has worked on the same engine as fitted to his Penguin.

Thanks again Dez, I've messaged the one chap who listed the exchanger for sale, though I can't help but think I should perhaps just make new when it comes to parts that could end up feed you noxious gases, he does state it's solid though.

I did pick up on the manuals but I think I had so much flying around my mind at the time (as usual) I didn't look into them, I know where to look if need be when the time comes, thank you. 

I've rejuvenated a few Villiers units now but never with multi speeds and dynastart, every days a school day.

This was my most recent Villiers, a 1947 Junior de luxe. I have a bit of a chainsaw fetish among other things.

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Thanks Egg, I'll take a look at the channel you suggest, I see he has worked on the same engine as fitted to his Penguin.

Thanks again Dez, I've messaged the one chap who listed the exchanger for sale, though I can't help but think I should perhaps just make new when it comes to parts that could end up feed you noxious gases, he does state it's solid though.

I did pick up on the manuals but I think I had so much flying around my mind at the time (as usual) I didn't look into them, I know where to look if need be when the time comes, thank you. 

I've rejuvenated a few Villiers units now but never with multi speeds and dynastart, every days a school day.

 

Yeah if you have the means to make one new then thats probably best for the reasons you say! im curious what the inside of one looks like, is it just 2 pipes, or have they covered the outside of the 2 pipes with fins or something to increase their surface area, to better transfer heat from the exhaust into the air flowing through them

(or would that make it too restrictive for the exhaust itself? I know with 2 strokes especially exhaust design can have big impact on engine performance)

and then once you have Villiers heat exchangers down pat, you can make a living doing Model 70 ones as im always been asked if I can find one by various people! LOL

7 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

This was my most recent Villiers, a 1947 Junior de luxe. I have a bit of a chainsaw fetish among other things.

ah yeah been meaning to comment on that in one of my posts here  found it quite interesting as I had never hand held chainsaw from the 1940s before!

the big 2 man Jobby was pretty neat too, gave me a chuckle, as not many people can truthfully  say "this chainsaw has a bigger engine then the car I just bought"  

(Invacar Mk12E is 197cc and IIRC you said the big 2 man one was 250cc?)

[AdgeCutler]

6 hours ago, LightBulbFun said:

in other hobby news, I got some more lightbulbs for the collection, these 6  saw these for a good price and had to grab em, I specifically was quite pleased to get these as I had a couple during my childhood and im glad to have some in the collection once more

there was a chain of lighting/electrical shops I used to spend all my pocket money in and they mostly sold household lamps and fluorescent tubes etc, but the odd store here and there had more specialised and odd lamps and one store had a few of these on the shelves and I remember being quite excited as they where my first working big lightbulbs, something with an E40 cap rather then Bayonet or E27!

although the Store had to order in a suitable E40 lamp holder for me before I was able to light mine! (being a more household orientated store they did not normally stock Giant Edison screw lamp holders!)

I also remember them well as because they are still "regular" incandescent lightbulbs, part of the same General Lighting Service GLS, range as your regular 60W or 100W lightbulb just a bit bigger!, but as such they got the same box art as a 60W lightbulb would, and the thought of a 300W lightbulb in a table lamp has always amused me LOL

(and it was just amusing to see such a relatively large lamp in regular consumer type boxes, I mean you would never find a regular Joe buying one of these for their living room LOL)

they are also quite interesting from a technical stand point, having coiled coiled filaments, which are generally not found on lamps above 150W-200W, and compared to other 300W lamps they have a reduced bulb size

these examples date to August 2005  

hopefully in the next few days, I can work up some strength and clear off my work desk to light one  

as a side note I do wonder if GE made larger then 300W GLS lamps in Europe, but I dont know for sure, I know these ones are of an originally Tungsram design from when GE took over that lamp manufacture in the early 1990s and I know that company did make larger GLS lamps but I dont know if GE continued to make them after they took over the company

I'll try to remember to take a piccy or two of some bulbs I have. I was running a couple of 1Kw filament bulbs at a show when somebody took this video of one of my engines generating.

 

[AdgeCutler]

24 minutes ago, LightBulbFun said:

Yeah if you have the means to make one new then thats probably best for the reasons you say! im curious what the inside of one looks like, is it just 2 pipes, or have they covered the outside of the 2 pipes with fins or something to increase their surface area, to better transfer heat from the exhaust into the air flowing through them

(or would that make it too restrictive for the exhaust itself? I know with 2 strokes especially exhaust design can have big impact on engine performance)

and then once you have Villiers heat exchangers down pat, you can make a living doing Model 70 ones as im always been asked if I can find one by various people! LOL

ah yeah been meaning to comment on that in one of my posts here  found it quite interesting as I had never hand held chainsaw from the 1940s before!

the big 2 man Jobby was pretty neat too, gave me a chuckle, as not many people can truthfully  say "this chainsaw has a bigger engine then the car I just bought"  

(Invacar Mk12E is 197cc and IIRC you said the big 2 man one was 250cc?)

Judging by the rest of the Invacar, I would imagine that the heat exchange is just as no frills, I'll try to take a peek inside soon.

[Zelandeth]

That's a lovely bit of kit that generator...I've still half got designs on trying to rescue quite a similar one in single cylinder form one day...

Lovely old thing.

 

[Mrs6C]

2 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

A short video update for those interested.

Great to see this!

Interesting to see that the tubular tie bar, that runs across the car between the tops of the rear suspension mounts, isn't straight on yours either. It has a noticeable dip in it, slightly offset from centre. I had seen the one on mine wasn't straight and assumed it had been damaged in some way, but yours looks the same! Odd, but perhaps it is meant to be that way.

The wide bit of the exhaust is a silencer. This is the one from mine:

[LightBulbFun]

for what its worth here are the pictures I have of an Invacar Mk12D with its bodywork removed, may be useful as a reference or such  

(looks like it also has the slightly bent tie bar, I think looking at the pictures its done to clear the exhaust?)

[MT606]

yellow is an very apt colour.......

[Mrs6C]

10 hours ago, MT606 said:

yellow is an very apt colour.......

It's gold, really, a plastic party tablecloth!

[AdgeCutler]

20 hours ago, Zelandeth said:

That's a lovely bit of kit that generator...I've still half got designs on trying to rescue quite a similar one in single cylinder form one day...

Lovely old thing.

 

Lovely, a proper Lister CS 8/1 Start O Matic 4.5 Kva set. Fantastic engines and alternators, well worth liberating.

[AdgeCutler]

Here, for the viewing pleasure of LBF, are some of the bulbs I often run at vintage shows powered by one of my ol' gennys. The two larger types are by Omega and 1000W measuring in at 12" they are GES fitting, Then some smaller 400W Thorn bulbs on ES.

[LightBulbFun]

8 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

Here, for the viewing pleasure of LBF, are some of the bulbs I often run at vintage shows powered by one of my ol' gennys. The two larger types are by Omega and 1000W measuring in at 12" they are GES fitting, Then some smaller 400W Thorn bulbs on ES.

very nice little collection  

does the lamp in the 2nd picture have any markings? it looks a bit older then the others so I am curious about it (either that or it is a 1500W  lamp and those are always pretty rare and kept their more rounded shape till the end of British production, but those where 335Mm in length)

the Thorn lamp with the skirted E27 cap is a 300W lamp  (the largest size made with a ES cap)

the GEC 150W High pressure sodium lamp is a nice find as well, dont often see 150W SON lamps from GEC that old, UJ is September 1987  

 

here are my biggest GLS lamps 

a very rare 1962 Atlas 2000W one on the left and a  1970 Atlas 1500W on the right

and here is the 2Kw beast lit  

[AdgeCutler]

Wow, a couple of those 2Kw monsters would be a nice load for the engine. The trouble would be that I wouldn't have capacity for the tea urn and deep fat fryer (sometimes I take an oven too), my friends would disapprove of that! I'll take a better look at the bulbous big boy tomorrow although I couldn't make out anything in the light I was in today.

[MT606]

got this lot from the grandad inlaw.....most of them are prewar/wartime Air ministry or crows foot (war department) marked.  

[LightBulbFun]

4 hours ago, AdgeCutler said:

Wow, a couple of those 2Kw monsters would be a nice load for the engine. The trouble would be that I wouldn't have capacity for the tea urn and deep fat fryer (sometimes I take an oven too), my friends would disapprove of that! I'll take a better look at the bulbous big boy tomorrow although I couldn't make out anything in the light I was in today.

they would  but they are VERY rare (even the 1500W ones are quite rare and sought after) it was not actually known that they made 2000W GLS lamps in England until mine and its siblings showed up on ebay (the 2000W GLS lamp where never listed in any British lamp makers catalog AFAIK)

however 1500W lamps came with a little paper band round the neck of the lamp to giving installation instructions, and in very small print was "1500W/200W" as if to say this instruction band is for 1500W and 2000W lamps to some internal department, so I had wondered if they did make 2000W lamps at some point and my examples proves that so  (and it makes sense it was dual marked since 1500W and 2000W British lamps share the same bulb size so would share the same installation instructions)

2000W GLS lamps where known to be made in Europe by European lamp makers but even those are very rare (they use an even larger bulb size)

so these 2000W lamps are far too rare to use up as a demo load at shows etc! (being a regular GLS Lamp still they only have a life of 1000 hours)

I have to admit it pains me a little to see even the lower wattage GLS lamps you posted being used up since old ones like that are general pretty rare these, you can however get more modern Chinese ones which will still look authentic to your regular show goer if you want to preserve the old lamps, but still be able to use some nice old flood lights as demo loads

 

on the one in the 2nd photo, try getting the glass on the top nice and cold somehow (I would normally say stick it in a freezer but it may be a bit large for it!), then breath on it, the condensation can make the outline of the etch show up even if its been rubbed off 

[LightBulbFun]

51 minutes ago, MT606 said:

got this lot from the grandad inlaw.....most of them are prewar/wartime Air ministry or crows foot (war department) marked.  

ohh thats a nice collection of 1930s/1940's Automotive and Military application lamps  

that large side mirror bulb is particularly  interesting, it looks a lot like a rapid nigrescence lamp used for sending morse code messages

like a smaller version of this lamp

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec Sheets/IN P Thorn Rapid Nigrescence Signal 3000W.htm 

[MT606]

I was wondering what it may be for, I thought because of its size maybe aircraft, but then I saw its specs 230v 500w, could it have been for the pundit code I wonder?  I've got a few boxes of old wireless valves aswell.

[AdgeCutler]

I little progress made today and a couple of horrors revealed!

 

[LightBulbFun]

7 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

I little progress made today and a couple of horrors revealed!

 

Ohh sorry to hear that engine/dynastart things are a little on the sad side

but it was very interesting to see inside the Dynastart like that  not sure iv seen the inside of a Villiers 11E dynastart unit before in that detail  

hopefully the engine itself can be unsized and that the Dynastart off the spares engine is in better shape  

[AdgeCutler]

A few pictures taken along the way. 

My first glimpse of the bore and Piston.

Another Mousey horde in the fan housing.

Showing the engine what I think of it  .

The inside of the Dynastart cover, showing the "tide line" and the double points at the back.

[Dick Cheeseburger]

14 minutes ago, AdgeCutler said:

A few pictures taken along the way. 

My first glimpse of the bore and Piston.

Another Mousey horde in the fan housing.

Showing the engine what I think of it  .

The inside of the Dynastart cover, showing the "tide line" and the double points at the back.

Your dog looks like he's not much impressed with what lurked beneath either. Great work so far though. 

[Six-cylinder]

On 3/17/2021 at 7:57 PM, AdgeCutler said:

A short video update for those interested. As you'd expect given the state of the car every nut and bolt has been putting up a fight until the last thread, I'm glad at the ones that shear off at the beginning of their travel. I live in hope that the fixings on the engine are a little happier to move, though I'm doubtful.

 

When you are making things like the floor outriggers you could always make two of each and I know who would buy them off you as hers are worse than yours! 

[martc]

OK, lets move away from Blighty's invalid carriages for a second and go further east.  Here is an SMZ S-3A M in Moscow, photographed in December 1982. They were produced in Serpukhov, by the Serpukhov Motor Works, from 1958–1970. They were available free form the state for physically disabled persons, and, like Invacars, various configurations of controls were available.They are 'powered' by a 346 cc single-cylinder two-stroke engine, giving 7 kW (about 10hp) and a top speed of 55 km/h (34 mph ish).  A quick image search shows they were available in a variety of bright colours, and a shade similar to NHS blue!

[Mrs6C]

4 minutes ago, martc said:

OK, lets move away from Blighty's invalid carriages for a second

I have been wondering what other countries had them, whether as a national social/health provision or as private, commercially available vehicles. It would make sense for British invalid vehicles to have made their ways to various Commonwealth countries, but did other European countries have their own makes and models as well?