Old cars in accidents

[pompei]

PS Forgot to ask, Mash, where did this happen, and how was the other driver?

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I bought a 2006 Focus for the Wife.....high starrage from NCAP. Makes me feel better if she goes anywhere. I guess it's a selfish thing.

Is it better than saying "for your safety I've decided to book you some more driving lessons"?

Yeah thats gonna go down well!

[Guest]

Spend most of my time in the Galant at the moment and I think it'd do alright in a crash, it has a nice hefty feel to it. Some people ride bicycles on the road and I reckon I'd do better than one of them in a crash.The best solution is to drive carefully and predict the actions of more than the one car in front (amazing how few people seem to be able to do this).

[vicsmith]

You never know what particular attribute of your car is going to save your life or contribute to your demise in the event of a crash, so it seems a great folly to try and strategically out-manoeuvre death through your choice of car, the only thing I would be confident about making an enormous difference to your chances out there is the level of attention paid when driving, as has been alluded to several times on this thread. Having said that, if I had a Bond Equipe and suddenly found myself having to spend 3 hours a day on th M1 mixing it with all the artics and Sprinters I`d probably equip myself with a cheap T-reg Mondeo or something for that job.

[trigger]

At the end of the day, What would you feel safer in, a 2009 Toyota IQ or a 1985 Volvo 740?

[Station]

This video scared me a bit. The lorry driver just appeared to fall asleep or just suddenly have a suicidal tendency. The car driver's on the other side didn't have a chance, the last thing they did was slam on.

It's not gory video, you don't see anyone die, it's just a really long distance CCTV video that's a bit sad and shocking:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBx8aHTBIx0

[trigger]

Wish i never saw that now What the hell was the lorry driver doing to just swerve like that?!Bet the bloke in the van shat himself as well.

[j-j]

Mmmm.Try riding a m/cycle to feel vulnerable, in central London perhaps?

I did for several years, up until last September when I changed job. It sharpened my riding and driving up a lot.

I just accept that I'm not in the safest of cars and like a biker, a sense of self-preservation means I tend to keep my wits about me.

What he said. Luck plays a part in any accident, I've survived a 70mph crash into an oncoming car that crossed the central reservation. NCAP etc would say "no chance" but my lucky rabbit's foot must have been sweating because I walked away with only a tiny cut on my hand.If you want the best chance of survival in a crash, take some training at observation and understanding hazards, bike training concentrates on this more than car training I'd say.Sadly, this involves effort, which is why most choose the car with some NCAP stars and drive around while on the phone or gazing into the middle distance

-Agree on all^ I am a cyclist and love it but it is very risky. Having said that I have never had a crash with a vehicle so far (few near misses cos car drivers are fookin stoopid (wait. I'm also a car driver so how does that work?)) and I'd say that being a cyclist really sharpens your wit: you develop a sixth sense to mongoloids opening car doors into your path, drivers who move without looking/ signalling (usually just annoying when you're driving but a major hazard when you're riding) and when you get back into the car - you take this sharpened sense with you. I INSIST it makes you a better, more considerate driver with a very dedicated sense of CONSEQUENCE a sense that's wholly unseen in most drivers. Cycling through a major city for a week should be part of the driving test But old car safety - funnily enough I always assume my 'usual' car, the CX would stand up pretty well in a head on. Not least due to the bonnet being about ten miles long but because of the girder like front cross member! Citroens have had crumple zones since the DS in the 50s. Add to that the centreless steering wheel and the dished, thickly padded dashboard it just gives a sensation of safety. However. I have no idea if it actually would be any good in a mega smash. It also has very good almost unbroken 360Ëš visibility from the driver's seat though it isn't fitted with a passenger side mirror! The brakes are immense with all round variable power disk brakes and anti dive suspension - the brakes also act quicker than normal cars due to the zero travel pedal BUT, it's not equipped with ABS so could lock up in the wet. It also suffers from no fad at all. Steering can't be deflected by the wheel striking something and due to the centre point steering geometry, it can take a turn with a front flat. So for an old bus it's pretty advanced with regard to crash avoidance designs. Despite this, I'm not going to fall for the old 'Volvo fallacy' of thinking I'm invincible due to the car's perceived safety standards. I sometimes fear that new cars trick drivers into thinking the car's advertised technology will take care of them regardless

[j-j]

This video scared me a bit. The lorry driver just appeared to fall asleep or just suddenly have a suicidal tendency. The car driver's on the other side didn't have a chance, the last thing they did was slam on. :(It's not gory video, you don't see anyone die, it's just a really long distance CCTV video that's a bit sad and shocking:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBx8aHTBIx0

Fuq That's got to have been some sort of axle/ tracking/ tyre failure of the truck surely.Pretty upsetting looking at the 2 cars on the other side - one was tailgating the other than BAM. The van on the other side didn't even hit the brakes.I'll remember that next time I'm at or over 70 on the outside lane - do I even need to overtake?

[fotorabia]

Pedestrian Impact Statement:1. when i was 18 months old circa 1969 in Australia i unattended crawled off to inspect the wheels of the Doctor's Ford Fairlane..whose house we were visiting for a BBQ.Dr.Jim failed to see me chewing his cross ply..got in the car and promptly reversed over me.He went straight over my back..leaving a perfect bruise tyre print.In my fathers words..it was like standing on a tube of toothpaste..and all they had to do was change my nappy.more upsetting was another guest had run over his son a few weeks prior..but killed him as it was the head rather than a rubbery little body n my case.Unsecured driveways are now illegal in Australia due to so many fatalites.2. Sixteen year old punk..I..off to walk the closed Sydney Harbour Bridge on its 50th anniversary.1983.Crossing parramatta Rd..a six lane highway..walk against red light..and as i was about on the sixth lane..an accelarating downhill Datsun 180B going for the amber..i stepped right in front off her..collected me..sent me spinning head over heel about 20 meters.She was in the Salvation Army..and this wasnt my idea of a good collection day.I was majorly bruised..dented her bonnet and grill but was ok.On the X-ray..my first vertabrae has an ungrown gap..a congenital fault..which i refer to as my universal joint!3.My sister in Edinburgh last Nov. on her bicycle.Comes up behind 32tn truck indicating right...safe as she is turning left.Policeman directing traffic directs truck to the left catching my sister and crushes her underneath.She nearly lost her lower leg and has had major orthapedic surgery.She l be disabled for life.Truck driver and police denying liability and compensation will be a battle.

[STUNO]

Spend most of my time in the Galant at the moment and I think it'd do alright in a crash, it has a nice hefty feel to it.

My uncle had a head-on at 100+ kph driving his rwd galant.He rounded a corner to find a US tourist on the wrong side of the road. He had 5 aboard the galant, 3 ladies in the rear and 2 men in front. Both men survived although very seriously injured, all 3 in the rear died of internal injuries from the seat belts. The men had slid out of the belts and into the footwells. I did not see the wreck but it must have had enough room left for the 2men to survive it.I do not know what the other car was but wife died and he was taken back to US apparently more or less a vegetable.

[Father Ted]

Meh! I just accept whatever happens in life as karma or kismet. - I mean I once ripped my scrotum open falling out of a tree as a child when we were out playing and making dens down the Naze. Should I stop my own kids from playing out?A girl I deeply adored got killed in a car accident when i was a teenager - made me think about my on mortality, but would I stop my own kids from learning to drive / going out? Nahh. Its just part and parcel of life.

[retrogeezer]

3.My sister in Edinburgh last Nov. on her bicycle.Comes up behind 32tn truck indicating right...safe as she is turning left.Policeman directing traffic directs truck to the left catching my sister and crushes her underneath.She nearly lost her lower leg and has had major orthapedic surgery.She l be disabled for life.Truck driver and police denying liability and compensation will be a battle.

I would never undertake a truck on a bike, they often have to swing left before turning right anyway due to their size and they just can't see you on a bike alongside the kerb.Really sorry to hear this has happened to your sister and hope she makes a good recovery.As some others have said, I guess if it's your time to go then there is not much you can do about it. I bet the people that got in that French jet a couple of weeks ago didn't give it a 2nd thought.

[ashmicro]

My Boxhead's a bit rusty, but the comments on that video said that the driver (of the LKW, lastkraftwagen, or HGV) was under the influence of alcohol, and that 8 people had been killed.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

See this is whats great about autoshite, you often get a pretty intelligent debate going about car reated stuff, thats rare for any car forum I find. I could not agree more with these comments:

If you want the best chance of survival in a crash, take some training at observation and understanding hazards, bike training concentrates on this more than car training I'd say.Sadly, this involves effort, which is why most choose the car with some NCAP stars and drive around while on the phone or gazing into the middle distance

and

You never know what particular attribute of your car is going to save your life or contribute to your demise in the event of a crash, so it seems a great folly to try and strategically out-manoeuvre death through your choice of car, the only thing I would be confident about making an enormous difference to your chances out there is the level of attention paid when driving, as has been alluded to several times on this thread.

I only drive old shitters, i'm not sure if i've even had a car with an airbag yet. I don't give it a second thought as I try my best not to crash, and if someone ploughs into me, well i could have 50 airbags around me or none at all and still no-one can predict whether i'll come out of it ok cos that will be pretty much entirely down to the other guy - i'll just have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

[55bloke]

This thread demonstrates that experience colours our opinions far more than research!! I knew a couple who REFUSED to wear seat belts coz they had a friend who was decapitated by one when a truck hit the B post of thier car and ripped the side out, including the seat belt and the driver's head! Never mind the thousands saved by not going through the windscreen, that million to one event was more influential to them. My parents will not drive a car without airbags, having had their lives saved by them when my dad fell asleep at the wheel, but I've never yet needed one so not having one doesn't cause me to loose any sleep, even though I know that the fact that my 25 hasn't got one could be fatal!

[fotorabia]

I would never undertake a truck on a bike, they often have to swing left before turning right anyway due to their size and they just can't see you on a bike alongside the kerb.Really sorry to hear this has happened to your sister and hope she makes a good recovery.i agree..i never do that here...shes [was] such a militant cyclist..but that was the crunchtime she just had to nastily realise..i take zero risks on my bike...

[Mr_Bo11ox]

My parents will not drive a car without airbags, having had their lives saved by them when my dad fell asleep at the wheel

This is the funny logic that surrounds car safety. Not 'must not drive tired in case i fall asleep at the wheel again' but 'must get a safer car, next time I fall asleep at the wheel I might not be so lucky'

[fiatdaft]

big old car safer than a modern supermini you say?

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3ygYUYi ... re=related

 

still think that?

 

and moderns built to pass ncap only?

 

nah

 

my wife walked away from this last year

 

 

[Mr_Bo11ox]

hey thats pretty sobering that 5th gear thing, difficult to argue with that.

[Pillock]

A lot comes down to chance though. I'm truely glad she walked away from that crash, BUT I don't think manufacturers had that exact crash in mind when they designed the car. They know NCAP sells cars, they HAVE to get the NCAP scores high. What else they design into their cars safety-wise is pure luck a lot of the time.You could make a car resistant to rollover accidents, but the roof would be six inches thick with reinforcement.Look at how the design of cars has changed when NCAP changes rules. A few years ago they introduced higher weighting to pedestrian impacts, and suddenly you've got low squishy front ends and space between bonnet and engines.Prior to that, the manufacturers still knew their nice square high grilles were harming pedestrians, but they didn't change them till Mr NCAP told them they were getting scored on it. Pedestrians haven't changed shape, but we consumers now demand safe cars.The 5th Gear thing - I was very surprised the Zafira didn't crumple more. It didn't look like that much damage to say the Cargo had driven into it at 40. I was expecting decapitated dummies TBH.

[Pillock]

Shit. I just watched the 940 vs Modus one.I did not expect that. I knew the Modus would come off well, but I didn't think the Volvo would crumple like that.

[Albert Ross]

There's also a Discovery vs. Espace one on the Tube, a surprising result.

[Billy]

talking about accidents spotted this on my way to autograss

not retro and Maybe a little grousome

but the rider was not on the bike when it hit the railings in my opinion so no blood and goor

this is on a regular crash spot so be safe

I inetialy thought this was faked by the police to slow people down but the more I looked the more real it was

 

 

 

 

 

not a normal spot by far but very sobering as thats on a fun bit of road right outside a fire station doors

hope they are ok

[Albert Ross]

I went for a trip out to get some coke earlier (liquid variety) and there was a right foul up outside the local Morrison's. Green Mk1 Laguna had parked itself into the rear of a New shape Kia Sorento. 1 banana shape Renault, 1 scratched Kia. I helped push the remains of the Renault into the kerbside. The Sorento drove away. Closing speed according to witnesses was approx 35-40mph. No casualties. Try that in a Mk3 Escort.

[55bloke]

Have posted these before, but worth another look I think. My brother's 1st Consul Capri, after being stolen by a couple of 14 year olds and driven into a stone gate post. Interior was pretty grusome, steering wheel well mangled, and the end of the column very bloody. Police followed the blood trail to find the culprits at home, and apparently not considering going to casualty for fear of being asked too many questions!! Very little sympathy for the little sods, to be honest, my brother absolutely loved that car, he was totally gutted. Sorry about poor quality scans.

[Mr Average]

I only drive old shitters, i'm not sure if i've even had a car with an airbag yet. I don't give it a second thought as I try my best not to crash, and if someone ploughs into me, well i could have 50 airbags around me or none at all and still no-one can predict whether i'll come out of it ok cos that will be pretty much entirely down to the other guy - i'll just have to cross that bridge when I get to it.

Exactly, how can you second guess such a thing.Having looked here briefly it obvious that great strides have been made in all aspects of road safety. However, people are still dying and being injured despite it all. Surely it's a question of pot luck?

[MrDuke]

I've only ever had one modern-ish car with ABS, airbags etc, and I can't believe how badly it affected my driving. I never conciously thought "it doesn't matter if I crash", it was just a combination of the low & totally cocooned seating position, plus the subconcious knowledge that the doors were several inches thick, that I was very unlikely to lose control when braking, and that if I overtook in a dodgy place, I had plenty of bhp to 'get out of trouble'.I only realised how bad my driving had become when I moved on to a 25-yr-old car, and found myself having to think about 50 yards further ahead, to avoid any situations happening. All my regular passengers commented on how much my driving improved at the time as well! Based on the fact that every time I use one of the works' Focuses (Focii?) I revert straight back to twat mode, I don't honestly think I'd want to own a modern again.

[Ratdat]

NCAP tests don't relate to real world situations. Impact speeds in the real world are often much higher and impact angles more varied so there's no way to realistically predict the outcome of any incident but the one thing that is true for any car, new or old, is that if you are travelling at speed and hit something hard like a tree you'll be lucky to survive let alone walk away.

 

Anyone see that crash in the mexican nascar thing a few days ago? 120mph (which in Nascar tems isn't very fast) into the end of the pit wall which was protected by big water barrels. Those cars have the biggest cages in them imaginable but it just folded up.

I've seen a HC Viva hit a big concrete sign support post at about 85mph and wrap right round it until the middle of the car was about 18 inches wide. I doubt at that speed a modern car would have fared much better but because people see their car has a few NCAP stars they think it'll do well in a crash however fast they are going. Beyond about 60mph, when solid objects are involved, it's pure luck if you walk away.

 

Again there is a lot of luck involved too. Mrs ratdat walked away without so much as a bruise from a 60mph roll into the scenery in a datsun 100A...

 

The car also survived it remarkably well without so much as a broken window...

 

 

My mate Dave walked away from a roll (two full rolls too!) at similar speed in a Datsun 1200. I'd wager the light weight of the car probably helped limit the damage in both cases.

 

 

 

There's a lot of accidents up this way. Here's some local efforts.

 

This Rover clobbered a tree after getting out of shape round a bend. Estimated speed at impact is about 55-60mph max I reckon. Whoever was on board obviously didn't fare too well as there was a LOT of blood all over the interior. Very nasty indeed...

 

 

Saw this one last Christmas. Lost it going too fast round a bend. Managed to snap a tree off and uproot it too

 

Leaving a wet road in a Volvo 440...

 

 

This one clearly didn't see the huge roundabout ahead and steamed straight into it's wooded centre...

 

Must have been quite spectacular. It had snapped this tree off at quite a height above the ground!

 

 

Another recent one from earlier in the year. The road where this was seen drops into a right hander and is certain to catch out any careless driver travelling to quickly as it seems to have done here...

[Pillock]

Lincolnshire/Norfolk roads always seem to generate really bad accidents. I think it must be the seemingly endless straight roads where you kinda get a bit bored, start looking around and then OMGWTF a corner! Too late.I would run out of fingers trying to count the number of people I personally know who have fallen foul of the Acle Straight, which is a road in Norfolk near Yarmouth consisting of two long straights with a 45 degree bend joining them. People just go straight on, no amount of NCAPPERY is going to protect them.