Tagora Showtime! Now with some Simca content

[pshome]

For an article about our Tagora's in the "Oldtimer Praxis" magazine, a photographer visited us back in July and made a series of professional pictures of the cars and ourselves.

 

The images are excellent, enjoy: http://altefranzosen.de/archives/254-Showtime!.html

 

[Dick Cheeseburger]

Stunning. Credit due!

[holbeck]

Aye. Respect Mr. pshome.

[Junkman]

Why are some on Rosenheim and some on Munich plates?

[pshome]

Why are some on Rosenheim and some on Munich plates?

We share the cars and costs. Therefore some are registered on my name (M reg), others on Michael's name.

He lives near Wasserburg, hence registration is 'RO'. Since two years the old 'WS' reg is again possible, the Simca Chambord got that.

 

Car sharing is a perfect arrangement, especially when adding to the fleet. We both tell our Mrs. "wasn't me, was him!"

[mercrocker]

Also lands the silver car with an unfortunate plate prefix.... 

 

Its also a local issue in our town, and often on appropriate vehicles.......... 

 

 

[Squire_Dawson]

What's the deal with the number plates - do all old cars have to show a new registration plate with the ghastly blue EU country mark on it?

 

I demand more photos and information of the Simca. How did you keep that one quiet?!

[Faker]

Wow! That is all!

[pshome]

What's the deal with the number plates - do all old cars have to show a new registration plate with the ghastly blue EU country mark on it?

 

 

yes, unless you keept the car with a pre-EU plate since the 1990's and it never changed the reg. That's rather the exception cause reg changes (with a few exceptions) with car is sold or when you move to another town.

Time we vote for a DExit to get decent plates!

[pshome]

I demand more photos and information of the Simca. How did you keep that one quiet?!

 

It's junkmans fault!! He sent us to one of his girlfriends he has stratecigally positioned around the world. Lady has a garage near Munich full of Cadillac V8 beauties including a stunning Miller-Meteor hearse. Since, Michael started naging about " need a V8, want, what a sound, want, great engines, want, want, want, want etc..".

Now how to buy a V8 and keep up the reputation as the "Franzosen"? Only solution: Simca Vedette/Chambord with the small "60" (2.2L) Ford flathead.

So we went to out to France for a collection and picked up a V8 for Michael, a 58 Chambord. Story is here: http://altefranzosen.de/archives/164-V-wie....html .

 

Engine was running allright, but a lot of blue smoke, so it got a rebuild, easy with a flathead:

 

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/175-moteur-reconditionne-Teil-1.html

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/179-moteur-reconditionne-Halbzeit.html

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/184-moteur-reconditionne-fin-heureuse.html

 

Otherwise very nice and good car. Only one FTP fault caused by oil pump.

Question to the engenine specialist, what makes the pump cogwheel disentigrate like this and dissolve into chunks found in the oil pan?

It's made out of some sort of reinforced 1930's plastic, i think the stuff is called "celeron"

 

Is it the oil ? A chemical reaction with modern additvies? How can this be prevented to happen again?

[666jjp]

" including a stunning Miller-Meteor hearse" - any pics??

[mercrocker]

Yes, please, that needs to be seen on here....

[pshome]

" including a stunning Miller-Meteor hearse" - any pics??

 

 

Yes, please, that needs to be seen on here....

Didn't take any photos. As a gent, i do not carry a camera first time i visit a lady!

 

check her website:

http://www.leichenwagen.de/downloads/hintergrund256.bmp

http://www.hearse.de/pics1.htm#hope

http://www.hearse.de/

[Split_Pin]

Absolutely fabulous photographs there, all cars are an absolute credit to you.

[panhard65]

It's junkmans fault!! He sent us to one of his girlfriends he has stratecigally positioned around the world. Lady has a garage near Munich full of Cadillac V8 beauties including a stunning Miller-Meteor hearse. Since, Michael started naging about " need a V8, want, what a sound, want, great engines, want, want, want, want etc..".

Now how to buy a V8 and keep up the reputation as the "Franzosen"? Only solution: Simca Vedette/Chambord with the small "60" (2.2L) Ford flathead.

So we went to out to France for a collection and picked up a V8 for Michael, a 58 Chambord. Story is here: http://altefranzosen.de/archives/164-V-wie....html .

 

Engine was running allright, but a lot of blue smoke, so it got a rebuild, easy with a flathead:

 

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/175-moteur-reconditionne-Teil-1.html

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/179-moteur-reconditionne-Halbzeit.html

http://altefranzosen.de/archives/184-moteur-reconditionne-fin-heureuse.html

 

Otherwise very nice and good car. Only one FTP fault caused by oil pump.

Question to the engenine specialist, what makes the pump cogwheel disentigrate like this and dissolve into chunks found in the oil pan?

It's made out of some sort of reinforced 1930's plastic, i think the stuff is called "celeron"

 

Is it the oil ? A chemical reaction with modern additvies? How can this be prevented to happen again?

Those Celeron timming gears were fitted to a lot of engines and degrade with age. Panhards use them and a specialist now makes new alloy ones that make slightly more noise but actually last. I am sure someone will do the same for the Simca.

[vulgalour]

Those Simcas are one of the prettiest cars ever made.

[pshome]

Those Celeron timming gears were fitted to a lot of engines and degrade with age. Panhards use them and a specialist now makes new alloy ones that make slightly more noise but actually last. I am sure someone will do the same for the Simca.

Thanks for the info. The red one we used to replace the broken gear is the only one available, its some sort of plastic, likely same celeron stuff. When we did the engine rebuild two years ago, there was no sign of any damage. Now, some 5000 km later, it was completely dissolved. That makes me wonder if its related to the oil, engine runs on normal 10W40 semi-synthetic oil.

[Squire_Dawson]

Now that's interesting, and thanks for the information. An engine that age needs mineral oil specially formulated for 'classics'. I have been using Morris Lubricants Golden Film 20w50 with good results, a 10w40 makes more sense in a rebuilt 'tight' engine or one in good condition especially in Germany where you have colder winters than us. The 'classic' formula oils are widely available in the UK and I'm sure you could have them delivered if you have trouble obtaining them. Castrol make a full range including gear oils, straight 30 etc, Millers do a Mini oil for BL transverse setups and Morris Lubricants Shrewsbury manufacture a comprehensive range. Halfords also sell a perfectly good 'classic' 20w50 which is green like the old Duckham's.

The Morris Oxford MO engine suffers from a similar fault, the fibre timing gear is in constant mesh with the crankshaft gear and can knock the timing right out or stop the engine completely, though I appreciate oil pump failure is much more serious (presumably the Chambord has a gauge instead of the idiot light which only comes on when it's too late?) Anyway, for the MO at least somebody has re-manufactured them in metal.

[Junkman]

 

6655?

[Uncle Jimmy]

Partial to Franco-Italian-American mashups, especially with a V8. Spotted this early Vedette last month, the owner recalled his father buying it new in 1954.

[Uncle Jimmy]

The 'Celeron' is the same as Tufnol I should think, a resin impregnated fibreboard. All the pushrod Volvo engines used a cam gear made of the stuff. Mine seems to be OK, I'm sure it's never been changed and apparently they do tend to give advance warning with a bit of a rumble.

[pshome]

Thanks for all the info.

 

Manual says 20W40 for average and 10W30 for cold climates, so 10W40  looks allright to me on the viscosity.

"Classic oil" is easily avialable here. To me this has always been "snake oil", same stuff in a different can = 5x the price. Am i wrong, what is the actual difference?

 

The small "60" engine is different from the larger flatheads in many respects. Few parts of the larger / US engines fit (actually none...).

 

Simca made a couple of changes over the original Ford design, whenever it gets metric, you know its a french improvement. Getting parts is not easy, but so far we found everything needed in France.

 

 

Owners and service handbooks are online here:

http://www.owdjim.gen.nz/chris/simca/OwnersHandbook/VedetteOwnersHandbookPage.php

http://www.owdjim.gen.nz/chris/simca/ServiceManual/VedetteServiceManualPage.php?p=1

 

[mercrocker]

Partial to Franco-Italian-American mashups, especially with a V8. Spotted this early Vedette last month, the owner recalled his father buying it new in 1954.

 

Flippin' ace!  

 

On a taxi ride in the Loire Valley a few years ago the driver pointed out his house (he reckoned his dog knew the taxi when it passed and would be at the window....He was).  Much more interesting to me was the unmistakable 49 Mercury shape of not one, but two of these lurking in his car port.   Lovely things.

[Junkman]

It's junkmans fault!!

Oh. Excellent.

 

He sent us to one of his girlfriends he has stratecigally positioned around the world.

There is that, yes. Some of them are rather bizarre, though.

[Junkman]

"Classic oil" is easily avialable here. To me this has always been "snake oil"

Well, that so called Classic (which is the fancy term for "backwards") oil does indeed contain the zinc these vintage engines need.

Whether it does or doesn't contain all those toxic additives necessary to make that newfangled tosh function for brief periods is beyond my knowledge,

but I just assume it doesn't.

 

As to why that stuff costs more that the camel piss for modernz in .de is beyond me, though.

I never pay more than an Ayrton for five litres.

[Junkman]

Well, I did some research into the V8 60, which is still widely used in vintage Midget racers, but that oil pump drive gear is indeed unobtainium.

Mind you, the one for the V8 85 is readily available and not made from some funny material, but the V8 85 also doesn't have the oil pump incorporated in the front bearing boss.

If I were you, I'd have a solid steel replacement made by an engineering company, fashioned after the good one you hopefully still have.

It's 24 tooth semi helicoidal. I could make that on a milling machine, but I bet they can make it CNC nowadays.

Having a batch of them made probably would go a long way with those Midget racers. Assistance in marketing them available on request.

[pshome]

We did find a new one (the orange one the second image) and it's all in place and engine is running. A company in France has made them, expensive though (210€). The "club vedette" in France also had new ones made, but they are out of stock at the moment.

In case it fails again, we will look into having it made from metal. Good to know about the midgets using the 60 engine, that will be useful when looking for parts next time.

 

FTP... that was in October, good that full breakdown coverage is cheap here for classic cars and they take you all the way home, not only to the next garage.

all fixed and back on the road by now.