Modern Diesel information wanted - low mileage/DPF issues.

[Jon]

This is a far cry from my usual uploading of interesting* content but I wondered if anyone could give me a hand sourcing some information regarding the running of modern diesels for sporadic, short periods?

 

I'm the member of a volunteer fire brigade here in NZ and we've a first responder vehicle that is ripe for replacement. It's an ex-ambulance and is an old tech NA V8 diesel, so seems to have fared OK-ish in this role for a fair few years. It's fully brigade funded, rather than supplied by the fire service, who funds and maintains our appliance. There's a feeling that we'd like to replace it with a ute or perhaps a people carrier or panel van but the one stipulation we have is that the fire service now require various safety stars or some such rubbish in order to allow us to respond under lights/siren. On the basis of that, it does look like new/nearly new is the way forward and so as a result, it looks like a diesel will again be on the cards, mostly because that's the default/only option, especially for vans and utes.

 

Reading about the horrors that modern diesels can throw up with such occasional, short use in the Tales of a Breakdown Driver thread, I'd obviously like to steer us away from this if possible, even though it would severely limit our choices if the prerequisite is a petrol motor. However, not many people would listen much to my internet hearsay, so if anyone could steer me towards any relevant on-line articles, that'd be great. Sadly, I just don't think forum information would cut it to those who clearly don't understand such things even exist.

 

Or alternatively, some solid advice on what would be needed to maintain a modern diesel which would probably struggle to exceed 1000km and be turned out a couple of times a week max. would be great. I'm assuming it'd be along the lines of getting it up to operating temp by sustained Italian tune-up on a regular basis.....

[Dave_Q]

Is the AA any good?

 

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/fuels-and-environment/diesel-particulate-filters.html

 

If the vehicle you're looking for is classified as light (can't seem to see what is light or heavy?) then it looks like Euro 5 equivalent didn't actually come in in NZ until 2013:

 

http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/entry-certification/i-and-c/exhaust/exhaust-emissions#nd

 

Maybe a 3-4 year old ute would have enough safety points? Euro 4 doesn't necessarily have a DPF.

[Barry Cade]

A first responder emergency vehicle? Low Kms? A good excuse for a big V8 petrol IMO...

 

 

 

 

 

New Zealand Defence Force: Diesel vehicles compliant with the recently introduced Euro 4 standard, and other planned standards, may shut down their engines or operate at lower power when the emissions control equipment is not operating as intended. The New Zealand Defence Force needs to be able to operate its vehicles in remote areas, overseas and in battlefield conditions, where a loss of power would not be acceptable. These vehicles would be permitted to contain an ‘Override’ facility (also known as a ‘defeat device’) to counter any loss of power. Such devices are acceptable in similar circumstances in other jurisdictions from which New Zealand imports vehicles. When an override facility is not in use, these vehicles will continue to comply with the emission standards they are built to.

[Asimo]

I work next to a shed where some occasional use / emergency type workshop vehicles are based. A few years ago Landrover TD5 were replaced with VW Transporters and they are a bit of a pain, running their batteries flat in 3 weeks of idleness, going into limp mode at random, shutting off completely when the cab radio transmits....

 

Don't Toyota still make relatively sensible old fashioned Diesels for the Asia Pacific markets?

[Jon]

Thanks all for the quick replies - Dave_Q, I don't think I'd considered that slightly older vehicles may not have DPFs. I just assumed that anything made within the last 10 years or so would automatically be riddled with this stuff which is counteractive to our particular needs. 

 

On that basis, is the consensus that <Euro 4 = no DPF?

 

 

A first responder emergency vehicle? Low Kms? A good excuse for a big V8 petrol IMO...

 

 

I do know of a late model F-150 in use with another volunteer brigade, who obviously have deep pockets. However, I wonder if they may too become stuck with the whole "must have x number of safety stars" notion, despite it having airbags etc? I think big petrol motor would be just fine and I'd tick that box as priority #1 if it were just me, on a reliability/durability sense.

 

That NZ Defence Force info is also very interesting - I wonder if there'd be such a caveat which we/NZFS could apply for, since our needs are really quite similar?

 

I work next to a shed where some occasional use / emergency type workshop vehicles are based. A few years ago Landrover TD5 were replaced with VW Transporters and they are a bit of a pain, running their batteries flat in 3 weeks of idleness, going into limp mode at random, shutting off completely when the cab radio transmits....

Don't Toyota still make relatively sensible old fashioned Diesels for the Asia Pacific markets?

 

It seems that all utes nowadays are made in Asian countries, so either there are local and export versions, or these markets have come a long way in quite a short space of time and are all sophisticated; I'm thinking the latter. 

 

That said, the latest Nissan Navara and Toyota Hilux utes are both available in petrol models with double cabs (needed for carrying more that two crew members) but sadly only in 2WD mode, which I think may not be suitable. We're a rural brigade and if we're going to spend large, we may as well go 4WD if possible. However, petrol 4WD ute with sufficient little safety stars does not seem to exist, so diesel it'd have to be. Like I say, more clarification should help.

 

One other question; would a modern go all haywire with having a battery isolator switch? Current old tech is very happy with this set-up but I'm assuming that this wouldn't be the case for its replacement. We do have the appliance hooked up to an engine pre-warmer or suchlike but it's more often in use and so has never had battery related issues. 

[Dave_Q]

I'm afraid its not as clear cut as Euro4 = no dpf, but Euro 5 was the first one where everything HAD to have one.

 

Basically NOx and particulates in a diesel engine are both affected by combustion temperature, higher temps mean less particulates but more NOx, you can't minimise both. For Euro4 some manufacturers left out the dpf, or had it as an option, and hit the NOx target with a Lean NOx Trap or similar.

 

There doesn't seem to be an easy way to find out online what had what fitted, so you might need to ask a tame dealer. Euro 4 trucks may have had a dpf, or Euro 5 trucks may have been on sale before they were legally required in 2013.

[Parky]

Could you not just cut the DPF out like tuners do with catalytic converters?

 

Half an hour with a hacksaw has to be a more simple solution or will the ECU freak out?

[SiC]

They map it out in the ECu when they physically remove the DPF. Otherwise you'll be getting large amounts of unburnt fuel down the exhaust when it's trying to regen. Plus if the pressure differential sensor isnt tricked, it'll throw an EML and likely go OK into limp mode.

[Cavcraft]

We had diesel Hiluxs (looks wrong that, but whatever the plural of Hilux is) and they were constantly getting clogged up and causing problems due to low speed use.

The Navaras seem slightly better but do still give trouble and if you need rear seats I strongly recommend you have a look at them first, they're pathetic on that score. 

[gordonbennet]

My 2007 Hilux didn't have a DPF and i believe they didn't get them till about 2009/10, 3 litre 4 pot Diesel runs about 177hp and its ok.

 

However, Hiluxs come with petrol engines too, usually the 2.7 4 pot though  which isn't going to be any flying machine.

 

Toyota Tundra is what you want, 4.7/5.7 V8 petrol, job done.

 

On Yahoo News today chap in America has just traded in his 2007 1 million mile Tundra for a new one, original engine and drivetrain, Toyota are going to dismantle it completely for research.

[Guest Lord Sward]

As old and as shite and as over-priced as they are Land Rover got the DPF right on the Transit engined Offenders.  Sorry, Defenders.  Likewise the rest of the (modern) range.