Delightfully Shambolic Jaguar XJ40 - Back to Magnificent

[phil_lihp]

Realistically, this is probably a 'talk me out of it' thread but I know this place well enough to know that's not going to happen.

I've been fancying a Jaguar XJ40 for some time now, something about them really appeals to me, something to do with their slightly dodgy image, unfashionable 80s styling and the upset that they caused some of the Jaguar crowd when they came out with the fishtank headlights and parts bin switchgear.

Anyway, I'm increasingly thinking I have to scratch the itch and this being pulled up in the eBay thread did not help.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DAIMLER-JAGUAR-4-0-XJ40-SUNROOF-HISTORY-WELL-ABOVE-AVERAGE-USABLE-CLASSIC-CAR-/201489303609?hash=item2ee9b2c839:g:~1sAAOSwo0JWLS2N




Now this, for me, is the combination I think I want. I love the colour(s) of the bodywork, it's not hideously rusty or horrendously broken but most of all, it has cream leather, red piping and red carpets. That much is essential. I have never had a proper luxury car before and I want to do it in my idea of style.

The engine size doesn't matter to me as I'm no speed demon and they're all big, thirsty petrols, unless there is one to particularly avoid. I don't mind Jaguar or Daimler although the extra spec of a Daimler would be nice. It just has to have 'that' interior.

So...what do I need to be wary of? My main concern is, I have neither the time nor the desire to be constantly fettling and repairing, nor do I want the thrill of 'will it make it to my destination before the engine explodes' on every journey or a huge welding bill come MOT time. Is this an unrealistic expectation of a 25 year old Jaguar? Particularly, for example, the one above at £1200? How low can I sensibly go before it's just a massive liability? Oh, and yes, I have noticed the ominous puddle under the one in the advert.

I don't see this being a long-term relationship but I know values are creeping up so I'd like to try one before I can no longer afford to. I know I need to get rid of the Prelude and fix up/sell the Volvo to finance this but I don't want to spend more than about £1500, firstly because spending any more is a risk I don't need right now and secondly because I'm a bit cheap.

Opinions?

[Guest Lord Sward]

Full-on Max-WIN.  Theres nothing, but nowt, like an XJ40 smoking through the traffic.  GIB.

[purplebargeken]

Just do it. Make sure the dash works as it should.

 

Check properly for rust, especially behind the front mudflaps. There is a plastic cover and mud gets trapped behind it. Not good.

 

Headlining droops.

 

Check for rust. 

[I_am_Diesel]

When I saw that on the e-bay thread I did feel a tinge of desire. Go on, do it! Live my dream.

[purplebargeken]

That one has the later dash. 

 

Check boot for moistness, if the toolkit is present and correct then that is a bonus. Bootlid is a cunt for rusting, as is by the petrol flap. 

[Guest Lord Sward]

That ones been for sale for quite a while BTW.

[HMC]

Paging Magnificent Rustbucket for all the gen.

 

Ive had 10 of them, from 2.9 to 6.0L paying 250-500 quid a throw. If its a short term thing, check its mechanically ok and take a punt. Thats what I did and never had a moments trouble for the couple of months I owned each. I'm beginning to like the earlier dash ones now for the full on 80's futurism vibe, though likely to be flakier in every sense. Is that entry level for these now?

[purplebargeken]

I had the 2.9, 3.6 Sov and a 4.0 XJ6.

 

The 4.0 was the best one by far

 

I had headlight module changing down to 10 mins and the dash down to 20 mins

 

Get one!

[phil_lihp]

It does seem to be the going rate now, if they were £400ish I'd have already bought one by now!  Ã‚£1500 is not throwaway money so I'm being a bit more careful.

[HMC]

Someone I know has a 8 seater woodall nicholson (IIRC) stretch in black on a 4.0 1994 daimler for that sort of money if you fancy something different!

[phil_lihp]

I take it that's a funeral limo?  Nice idea but probably a bit gloomy for my tastes, not a fan of black in general!

[fred]

Awesome cars of Awesome - Loved mine, bodywork (which doesnt need saying) usual stuff you look for in any car , not really much sticks out with faults - sod all happened to mine, OK maybe the silly computer which garbled all sorts of odd shite at ya , but no....  and folk let you out at Junctions just because you have a Jaaaaag

[HMC]

Yes it is/was. Looked very tidy but with the extra height added to the glasshouse also a bit ungainly.

[dome]

One of these fine chariots is a guaranteed* cure for a broken collar bone and therefore I can thoroughly recommend it. See here if you have any doubts

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/16730-new-invalid-carriage-purchased-sold/

[egg]

New to Autoshite lingo - but OMGMPG?

 

I've sometimes thought a Jag might be a cunning weight loss plan, it would make me walk more if I knew it would cost a fiver to pop out for a pint of milk!

[phil_lihp]

In the interests of comparison, this is a purple one for £995:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-Sovereign-3-2-XJ-Saloon-Cherished-No-Plum-Leather-Full-MOT-L-Reg-SALE-/161783406998?hash=item25ab0ae196:g:kykAAOSwcBhWZVzB

 

 

I could probably cope without the red carpets, the paint colour is hideous but might grow on me (the turquoise 940 did eventually) and it's a bit more affordable.

 

Or there's this colourless Cat D for £675 which is rather tempting:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-Jaguar-XJ-Sovereign-Salvage-Category-D-049278-/161912950313?hash=item25b2c38e29:g:uawAAOSw8-tWVIkA

 

 

I'm not a fan of silver on any car and the grey leather is horrible, it looks like a 90s office cubicle.  However, it's cheap and aside from the dent it looks very tidy.  The interior is a big disappointment though, I suppose I could probably find a nice one to transplant into it but that would be a lot of faff and in fairness it's immaculate inside so it would be a bit of a shame.

[Guest Lord Sward]

I once traded one on, on behalf of a humorous Sikh gentleman (now thats a religion we can do business with) .  He left my 'commission' for me at the garage in my absence one christmas eve.  It was £80 in £1 coins.  To a booze fuelled teenager, it was just a bag of beer tokens.  Class.

[phil_lihp]

I may have just emailed the seller of the silver one...I've asked for the reg number so I can check the MOT history.

[MarvinsMom]

rust.

 

the thing to look for in the floor is rust. and in the body, but mainly in the floors.

 

the back wheel arches go, and the fronts can go too where the mudflap collects all the crud, and also up behind the wing in the inner wing can go too, though i think that you cannot really see that with the front wings on.

 

engine is a tough old thing, and the transmission is pretty tough too, look for clunks when gong into drive, that could be the prop shaft or the diff. shonky gear changes may be cured* by changing out the ATF, diffs whine but can and will run for ages like that.

 

springs sag, and both axles can be rebushed if needed, if the car tramlines, then it probably wants doing. 

 

AC can and does not work, but these are old cars now, new compressors/condensers etc are available if you feel the urge to get it fixed. some cars have sunroofs, which i hate cos they always leak.

 

i've got an early X300, which are broadly the same, but different enough to need loads of uninterchangable bits.

and you cannot have the maroon xj40, cos i call dibbs on it

 

dibbs.......

[Guest Lord Sward]

An XJ40 MUST have fishtanks to look the business (of the '80s).

[RobT]

I considered one last year and my plan was to get a mechanically sound but perhaps slightly crusty one, on the basis that hopefully it would be reliable for 6 months or so and then sell it on pronto before it became a money pit i.e. luxury spec bangernomics. There were a few knocking about at the 6-800 mark that were decent so you may still get a cheap one Phil.

 

In the end I did the opposite and spent much more on a S2 Daimler that is far from mechanically sound, but is OK body wise. But the plan is to keep it long-ish term so I'd rather spunk money on oily bits rather than chase the rot. I do wonder sometimes if I've done the right thing though...

 

So in a nut shell, do it! If it helps, my delivery service is available if you find a goer up in this here London.

[phil_lihp]

Cheers chaps, lots to ponder on, I need to move the Honda on and get the Volvo ship-shape first really but as ever these things never line up properly and I'll probably end up doing it all in the wrong order!

[MarvinsMom]

an XJ40 will be similar in the MPG stakes as the X300 is, mid to high-teens about town, and maybe 25-odd mpg on a steady run.

 

i reckon on around 22-ish MPG overall in mine, but then i don't worry about it.

 

just enjoy the journey.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

They're very good cars - I love mine and have never tired of it despite having owned it for a long time. The mechanicals are pretty  robust - especially the engine and transmission, neither of which have any particular weaknesses and weather the lack of servicing most of them have had well.

 

There were three distinct phases of XJ40 - the 2.9/3.6 litre digital dash cars running from 1986 to 1989. The digital dash is cool - but the cars can be quite needy electrically  - these are the cars which earned the XJ40 its reputation for being unreliable. 

 

Digital dash:

 

Analogue dash:

 

 

 

In 1990, jaguar introduced an analogue dash with six dials and a new electrical system. This is MUCH better and more reliable. XJ40s of this era are reliable electrically, unless they have rust problems. 1990 also saw the 4 litre replace the 3.6 in 1990 and 3.2 replace the 2.9 in 1991

 

And lastly the 1993/1994 battery in boot cars (introduced October 1992) have over 100 metal changes from the earlier XJ40 and under the skin are almost an X300. These drive slightly better and have slightly different seats with 10 way electrical adjustment. These have another entirely new electrical system which is very reliable - again unless they have rust problems. Bad earths and soaked electrics can affect them.

 

 

They can rust - really rust -  so check carefully for it. The areas to check are:

 

On late cars (1993 and 1994 model years - these are the cars with the battery in the boot)  - the bulkhead behind the engine can rust badly - indeed terminally. Check it in both corners where it meets the inner wing and down the weld in the middle. Some rust here is inevitable, but if there is serious rust here  - walk away unless you like welding!

 

On all model years with the bonnet open, check the tops of the inner wings. XJ40s can rust round the small white plastic lokut nuts which old on the screws which secure the wheel arch liners below.

 

Look at the top of the plenum - they can rust badly here, but generally invisibly under the wings. The tell tale sign of this without removing anything is to examine the ends of the front wings where the tough the plenum next to the plenum cover. If they are swelling, then there is rust under there. That said, this isn't especially expensive to fix.

 

 

On earlier cars check the front corners of the bonnet - these can rust badly. Fortunately, later cars are unaffected and the bonnets are interchangeable.

 

Check the A pillar on both sides. These can rust through, generally near the base - and especially on sunroof cars. they're not cheap to fix, thought the parts are available.

 

Front wings can rust in two places - firstly at the bumper mounts at the front and at the point where they tough the plastic front spoiler.

Front wings also tend to rust at the bottom along the sills where the rain water is channelled behind them. If allowed to develop, they can also show rust blisters about six inches up at the rear of the front wing - following the line of the rain channel welded to the inside face.

 

While you are looking at the lower wing, check the sill ends on both sides. Sill ends and the rear of the front wings tend to rust together. If both are rusted, there is likely to be more rust lurking behind.

 

When you are examining the sill ends, check their inner face too - the side which projects into the wheel well. They can rust badly here whilst looking sound on the visible side. A mirror will be useful to see this.

 

Check the front of the floor under the foot wells on both sides. These tend to rust at the corners behind the wheel where the floor meets the sill end, and at the jacking points.

 

 

Check for rust at the sill to floor join all the way down the car on both sides. This is important as rust is common here, but easily spotted. The place to look is along the pinch weld where the sill joins the floor ON THE FLOOR SIDE under the car.

 

 

Early cars can rust at the rear of the sills, but this seems much less common on later cars. Rear wheel arch rust is worth checking for, but is much more of a problem on the X300. Generally an XJ40 will be really rotten before its rear arches are frilly.

 

Front subframes rusted badly on early cars, but later cars are much less affected - check the front subframe carefully if you are looking at a digital dash car.

 

That's enough scrambling around on the ground! Now check the rear screen surround, paying particular attention to the finisher which covers the weld along the rear pillar - and the deck panel in the corners where it meets the screen and around the fuel filler. The rear pillar finishers swell when they are rusting, pushing them out at a strange angle. Serious rust here can lead to leaks into the cabin and boot.

 

The deck panel behind the boot lid isn't structural (it is bolted on at the sides) but rust here is unsightly and can lead to leaks into the boot. 

 

Boot lids rust badly on early cars, but later cars don't suffer rusty boot lids that often. The late boot lid is not identical to the early one, but the two are interchangeable.

 

Famous last words, but boot floors don't generally rust badly, though the boots themselves often leak. A wet boot is likely to be down to a leak from the fuel filler/gaiter, poorly sealed lokut nuts securing the rear chrome trim at the boot opening, a leaking aerial grommet or leaking rear lights - or if you are unlucky, rust at the rear pillar finishers. Leaky boots are common on XJ40s.

 

To the inside.

 

I would be suspicious of any XJ40 which is wet inside. Lift both front carpets to see if they or the underlay are damp. If they are, it could mean the car leaks - that means rust at the bulkhead somewhere.

 

The leather trim lasts well with the exception of the piping down the door side of the driver's seat. This can show wear even on cars which have done 70,000 miles! Daimlers suffer less than Jaguars because the seat design is less 'wrap around'. The rest of the seat should be in good condition. The woodwork is proper veneered wood and does tend to fade in the sun. Water damage can show on it too. Double check for rust if they look like they've got wet!!

 

 

Check the windows all work and the fans work on lower speed settings. The blower motors are controlled by Darlington resistors. If these are on their way out, the blowers will only work on 'high' settings.

 

The A/C seems to be rather a temperamental thing on the XJ40. It probably won't work. If it does, this is a good sign in my book.

 

Later cars have very reliable electric seats indeed. I have seen reports of switch problems on earlier cars, but the switches are widely available second hand and cheap, so they can't be that bad. It is important for the electric seats to work - for the MOT and drivability.

 

The headliner is very similar to the cloth one used on the Rover SD1 and suffers the same BL droop! They can be re-trimmed easily enough though.

 

As with any car, check the warning lights - the ABS system has two lights - the yellow light should go off after about 30 seconds. Much more than this means the accumulator sphere could be nearing the end of its life. If it comes back on again when you set off, you probably have a faulty ABS sensor. The ABS computer is in the boot. It is reliable unless it has got very wet.

 

If the transmission selector needs to be wiggled in order for the car to start, the park inhibit sensor needs adjustment or has problems. Not particularly difficult to fix.

 

The car should start easily and quickly and settle to a steady idle of about 800 rpm when cold fairly quickly (less when warm, particularly the 4 litre). Higher than this means an air leak, an idle valve problem of a throttle position sensor problem. They can be tricky problems to find.

 

 

The engine should be smooth and quiet - though it is less refined/more raw than a modern BMW, for example. The transmission should select drive and reverse without clonks or histrionics. It should change smoothly through the gears at part throttle, but you will feel changes at full throttle in a way you won't on a modern car. A clonk lifting off power can mean drive line problems - a worn cv joint, prop centre bearing (tend to roar too) worn Jurid/ worn diff/output bearings etc. diffs can get noisy but die very slowly.

 

Look for smoke. A small puff of smoke at start up is acceptable - most XJ40s do this; it is a product of the valve stem seal design. Smoke when driving along can mean a problem though - check the car doesn't smoke on acceleration or after rapid deceleration.

 

The oil pressure gauge is notoriously flaky on all AJ6 engined jaguars. Real oil pressure problems are almost unheard of. Unless there are other signs of low oil pressure in the way the engine sounds and feels, then a low reading is almost certainly a faulty gauge.

 

The XJ40 is a heavy car so worn bushes is not uncommon. They don't tend to suffer broken springs like German cars. The car should ride well -  though firmer than a Citroen CX, for example. The car should drive straight without tramlining and pull up straight under braking. The car should corner and handle well with no sogginess. it should be surprisingly good at challenging roads, particularly with a poor road surface- though the feel of the car encourages wafting.The brakes are pretty decent for a car of its age and weight.

 

Knocking from the front suspension over bumps is probably shock absorber top bushes. these don't last well, but are cheap and easy to replace. The sound of golf balls bouncing round in the boot is probably rear shock absorber top bushes failing - not drastic, but more involved than the front. The sound of a little dwarf tapping the boot floor with a tiny hammer is likely to be rear shock absorber lower bushes.

 

Look at the front tyres: as the bushes wear, the suspension has a tendency to sag and toe-out. This causes rapid wear to the inner part of the tread. The steering of the XJ40 is very sensitive to suspension geometry. Poor geometry ruins the feel!

 

Check the power steering does not have heavy 'dead' patches - particularly when it is cold. These seem to affect the early car much more often than later cars however.

 

Which engine?

 

The best engine choice it the 4 litre. This is usefully faster and has more torque than the 3.2. It is hardly any thirstier. The 3.2 is also a fine car however and has plenty of performance for most people. the 4 litre also has a more advanced transmission (ZF4HP24), but the ZF4HP22 in the 3.2 is also a good unit.

 

I would avoid the 2.9 unless it is very cheap. 165 bhp is not enough in this size of car and the single cam 2.9 litre engine has cam chain and breather problems not suffered by the twin cam 3.2/3.6 and 4 litre cars.

 

Digital dash cars are cool, but much needier. Analogue dash cars (particularly 1993/94) model years are much easier to own.

 

The 6 litre V12 is wonderful , but drastically thirsty and significantly more labour intensive to keep running. Some parts availability is difficult on the V12. Everything is cheaply available on the six cylinder cars. The V12 is expensive to own - one for the enthusiast, really.

 

Spec level? Daimlers are poshest - with individualised rear seats and cool picnic tables on the front seat backs. Some Daimlers have soft Autolux leather.

 

The Sovereign is the model down - but has most of the Daimler's kit, so electric seats, leather, A/C cruise control, etc. both Sovereign and Daimlers came with fishtank headlights originally. The lights are easy to swap for quads - many have been.

 

The XJ6 the entry level model, but most have leather and alloy wheels. They don't tend to have electric seats, cruise control or A/C. These were fitted with the round 'quad' headlights.

 

 

Personally, I would buy on condition rather than colour or specification.

 

If you are patient, I think it is perfectly possible to find a decent XJ40 for £1,000. they have risen in price, but they remain difficult cars to sell!

 

Mine averages 22mpg running round. 18mpg in city driving and late 20s on a run.

[fred]

Mr Rustbucket hath pretty much covered everything there   Need to print this out and offer it out to all XJ40 Buyers

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I will have a better look at the cars you have linked tomorriow (it's got late so early!!)  but the red Daimler looks to be a bit crusty round the edges to me! Lovely colour combination though! If so, £1,200 is steep in my view.

 

Don't discount the 'purple' one on colour grounds. The colour is called Moroccan red and is a beautiful colour when it is polished up. In dull light it looks almost black, but when the sun shines on it it becomes red. it is one of my favbourie XJ40 colours.

 

 

This is the same colour, just polished up.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

A quick Google and I found the refurb thread I wrote on my car a year or two back, but never completed for reasons of laziness and its tendency to plunge down the topics list and off the first page in about two hours flat!

 

It shows the sill end and bulkhead rust in graphic detail.

 

http://autoshite.com/topic/11485-xj40-rust-welding-a-cat-with-management-skills/

 

The thread has been garbled slightly when the forum suffered slight electrical problems a while back. there is definitely a sense of deja vu part way through when the whole thing repeats!

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

It is definitely worth joining www.xj40.com

[Bren]

I would buy on condition rather than spec - more so at this money.

 

The term "shitting itself " was dreamed up by an XJ40 owner.

 

Cos' this is autoshite you shpuld be looking for a 2.9, five speed car with cloth seats - misery has never been so affordable.

[Insideimsmiling]

I took on a XJ40 as my first Jaguar as bought with my eyes open and a lengthy check before handing over the cash. It was a beautiful car in wedding white and I sold it on to a wedding hire firm a year later for the same cost with no significant amount spent over that time. I loved every moment of ownership, my son and I just sat in it on the drive the first day and luxuriated in the surroundings.

I went on to buy a later XJ6 and it was an even better car in every way, but I loved my first Jaguar as that feeling of being privileged just to be in it never wanes, even if it is a bit frilly up close.

Just do it, the driving experience is so special.