Here it comes - the 'Scrappage Scheme'

[Guest]

I Was offered a Peugeot 405 Diesel estate on friday. R registered low mileage (62.000mls) Tax/test july £400 ono. Today he has said he wants £2.500 for it and no less as he has been told by a garage that all old cars are now worth this due to the scrappage scheme. Grrrrr

Does this chap have some sort of 'insider information' that the scrappage scheme is a goer then he sounds like just the sort of mug that would get sucked in on this though, assuming he's in a position to get the credit

Pensioner with spare cash Local garage told him its now worth £2.500 so thats it-like arthur daly their word is their bond Would love to see him try to sell it to them for that though

[AnthonyG]

Its not worth £2500 unless he is going to buy a new car! (this is assuming the scheme goes ahead). The fact that there will be a clause that you will need to own the vehicle to be scrapped for at least 6 months/a year before trading it up will stop all this nonsense. When it doesn't happen and he comes crawling back to you offer him £250 and/or tell him to f**k off!

[garycox]

Were there R reg 405s? I don't think I've ever seen one...

[Richard]

R reg?

Well spotted-typo error It was a 406 of course.

[dollywobbler]

Just to prove that this has wound us up here at Classic Car Weekly quite a lot...

 

http://www.great-cars.co.uk/scrap-the-scrappage.html

[michiel]

All the plans over here seem to have been scrapped except for a 750 euro bonus when you scrap an old van and buy a new one... yep, that's going to help

[AnthonyG]

Just to prove that this has wound us up here at Classic Car Weekly quite a lot...http://www.great-cars.co.uk/scrap-the-scrappage.html

That one I have signed , because some intelligent thought has gone into it, unlike that dickhead's one on the No10 site.

[Guest]

I agree, I don't usually sign petitions, but I've signed this one as I feel it has been put across very well - particularly the point about it targetting the wrong sort of cars.

 

We'll see what happens though - I'm convinced that if such a scheme goes ahead there'll be so many caveats in it, that it'll be utterly worthless anyway.

[FredTransit]

yeah it's the typical Government thing of giving with the left hand and taking with the right. So if we are lucky nobody will qualify. I read something about the emissions of the scrap-to-be car needing to be worse than the new car. That would be a bit hard to prove if the car doesn't have any CO2s registered at the DVLA, as normal with the pre 1997 cars.

[The Main]

Just to prove that this has wound us up here at Classic Car Weekly quite a lot...

 

http://www.great-cars.co.uk/scrap-the-scrappage.html

Nice work, dollywobbler and your colleagues on CCW. Knew you guys would jump on it before the rest of the motoring press! Good to know that there's a bunch of editorial people out there who are prepared to stand up and be counted for what they believe in.

 

I'd be interested to know what the Bauer titles (Practical Classics and Classic Cars especially) are going to do about it - sweet FA probably because they'll undoubtedly be thinking of their ad revenue. Can't go upsetting BMW etc! I'm sure the likes of Rob Munro-Hall won't want them jeopardising that particular cash-cow.

 

I think the important thing now is to get the word out to the general public as well as the classic car fraternity. It's the numbers that'll count. I have just signed your petition and will be getting as many friends/family as possible to do so too.

 

I so want to get this stupid piece of legislation stopped.

[dollywobbler]

Aye, as do we - though I won't comment on Bauer, mainly because I'm mates with a few of the writers, some of which even frequent this place.Feel free to spread the word. Incidentally, I got a non-committal reply from my MP today - said I raised some "interesting points" but I think he feels that stimulating the car buyers is the way forward. I'm just not sure that people actually want to get themselves into more debt right now.

[Mash]

I think he feels that stimulating the car buyers is the way forward. I'm just not sure that people actually want to get themselves into more debt right now.

Exactly. The point that you raise about only those in the position to buy a new car will benefit from it is the reason why I believe we won't lose a great deal of old bangers that we all love.How many people running a £500 shitter are going to go and buy a 10 grand car just because (at best) they'll get a couple of grand knocked off? Not many. Though I love old stuff I wouldn't mind having a new car to use, but I can't afford it even with a scrappage allowance - end of story.

[gtd2000]

Now if you could trade a banger in for a Tata Nano does that mean you'd get around 1100 quid in yer pocket and a new "car"

[gtd2000]

I love the way CO2 is presented as the only harmful gas a car can produce. Does anyone honestly think that if we all drove low emissions cars the tax bands would stay as they are? I can see it in a few years when low emissions cars are more commonplace "oh actually our to scientists have just discovered that x is more dangerous, so we'll have to rearrange the tax bands based on that"

Nah, they already have that covered and it's all being organised as we type.It's called "road pricing"

[FredTransit]

Now if you could trade a banger in for a Tata Nano does that mean you'd get around 1100 quid in yer pocket and a new "car"

I thought of that, would you like to join me in perusing the sub £200 tat on ebay? BTW, the DVLA will put any date you write in on the V5 as date of transfer:wink:

[Mr Lobster]

Interesting point re cashback on a Tata Nano!There was a thing in Autocar yesterday that if the scrappage allowance goes ahead Dacia will probably come to the UK 'within months'.Now that would be interesting.... a new Logan for £7k less £2.5k would be a very interesting proposition at £4.5k and that would make me a bit more tempted tbh as I would imagine that to be a very painless way of owning a new car.Apparently Dacias market share has increased massively in Germany since the scrappage thing was introduced as if you could buy a decent (if somewhat basic) new car for £4.5k then that sounds much more sensible and a lot more tempting.

[pogweasel]

The Dacia thing IS interesting. A Logan certainly -should- last the rolling 9-year term of the scheme, and if your depreciation over that period is only a couple of thousand, it suddenly looks quite a sensible option. I could see those who would ordinarily be wary of this scheme (fossils, mostly) going for that as an option.

[Guest]

I still don't think it is a massively tempting offer just on the basis that the used car market is much better value here than elsewhere in Europe - you could get some absolutely corking stuff on the used market for £4500. If you were being sensible I'm sure you could get all sorts of nice stuff still in warranty, approved used, etc. Sensible stuff like Fiestas - obviously if I had £4500 and was told to come back with a fairly new car, I'd come back with a really late-registered Hyundai XG30, a Kia Magentis with a "minor ECU problem" or a Maserati Quattroporte which has been used to ram-raid a bank.I suppose it comes down to how important a car being new is to you - I'd rather have something that is used and really nice than new and mediocre.

[dollywobbler]

I still don't think it is a massively tempting offer just on the basis that the used car market is much better value here than elsewhere in Europe.

This is true. I've got relatives in France and they can't believe how little cars depreciate out there! People really see the sense in second-hand. Whereas we're a nation of fashion victims. Well, apart from us lot, who laugh in the face of fashion! Or is it just me...

[Guest]

Yeah it's just you, I'm more fashionable than Chester Cheetah, Fido Dido and the Cresta bear put together.

[Justin Case]

Do European countries have as many company cars as us? If so then they won't have a constant supply of well-maintained three-year-olds coming on to the market at less than half the new price, as we do, and only being sold because the lease has ended, and not because of imminent mechanical disaster (like mine when they finally go ) As one or two others have said, our flourishing secondhand market will make the scheme a non-starter (no pun intended)

[gtd2000]

I'd come back with a really late-registered Hyundai XG30,

Go on, you know you want it!

 

 

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HYUNDAI-XG-30-V6_W0QQitemZ110367923926QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item110367923926&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A7%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

 

[vicsmith]

Yeah it's just you, I'm more fashionable than Chester Cheetah, Fido Dido and the Cresta bear put together.

Look, Hirst, just because you recently adopted a racy new image, that does`nt give you the right to start dropping big names like this.Just a thought about all this, if you think about it, anyone who lets their 4-door Proton Saga get fed to the crusher in a deal like this can`t have cared about it`s future, even if they looked after it while they had it, so without this scheme, the chances are they would have done one of the following with their cars:1)Not bother putting it in for test, and scrapped it.2)Sold it cheap to someone who just wanted a cheap car and would scrap it at some point3)Part ex it, at which point it would either get weighed in if the scrap was up at the time or sell it to a lesser dealer, who would then -see point 2-Okay they might 4) Sell it to HirstBut if it`s not around for Hirst to buy because it`s been ecoflexed or whatever, that won`t stop him, he`ll get an early Kia mentor or something that would otherwise have had one of the first three fates awaiting it instead, so the number of severely outmoded 4 door saloon cars remains constant.It`s supply and demand I suppose, if people want these old cars to continue to be around, and there seems to be a good few of us that do, then they will be, it`s just different actual cars that will survive.This is all a trifle optimistic perhaps, and it would still be for the best for this thing not to happen or be a disastrous failure, but if it does steamroller it`s way in perhaps this possibly flawed logic can provide some cold comfort to a few.

[AnthonyG]

Hey Hirst, I'm sure you can get a very nice Kia Magentis for £4500, not a shitter with 'problems'. You want a Kia Amanti anyway for maximum shite points -

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Amanti

 

There is an ad for an Hyundai XG30 in CCW refering to it looking like 'a Cadillac' - unfortunately, not a Cadillac I would want, such as a 1964 Coupe De Ville !

[AnthonyG]

Re Tata Nanos - they are planning a European version, unfortunately all the fettling means they will end up costing £4500, which IMHO will make them very uncompetitive compared to a Base Fiat Panda or Citroen C1, Clio Campus, Dacia Logan etc.

[gtd2000]

Re Tata Nanos - they are planning a European version, unfortunately all the fettling means they will end up costing £4500, which IMHO will make them very uncompetitive compared to a Base Fiat Panda or Citroen C1, Clio Campus, Dacia Logan etc.

A Dacia Logan costs around US$1100 to manufacture - amazing what all that extra safety stuff/certification costs when you comapre a real car to a Nano

[Mr Lobster]

I'd be interested to know what the Bauer titles (Practical Classics and Classic Cars especially)

Just picked up Practical Classics yesterday...Perhaps not surprisingly I did not see a single reference to the Scrappage Scheme anywhere within it.Well theres a surprise.

[FredTransit]

Interesting point re cashback on a Tata Nano!There was a thing in Autocar yesterday that if the scrappage allowance goes ahead Dacia will probably come to the UK 'within months'.Now that would be interesting.... a new Logan for £7k less £2.5k would be a very interesting proposition at £4.5k and that would make me a bit more tempted tbh as I would imagine that to be a very painless way of owning a new car.Apparently Dacias market share has increased massively in Germany since the scrappage thing was introduced as if you could buy a decent (if somewhat basic) new car for £4.5k then that sounds much more sensible and a lot more tempting.

Presuming you are not taking the wee, new or not that means you have to find £4,500 in cash. That's a hell of a chunk of change for most people, and to get that new car you would probably enter into a finance agreement. Isn't that what's got the country into this mess in the first place?

[dollywobbler]

Sorry, I'm pimping the petition again >>> http://www.great-cars.co.uk/scrap-the-scrappage.html

 

We've now put the original article up on the page too and, in slightly shite fashion, when you click the link to view the PDF, it causes your computer to stall, but gets there eventually, narrowly avoiding a crash. As long as you have Acrobat reader installed anyway...

[Mr Lobster]

No I'm (reasonably) serious. I know £4.5k aint exactly small change and encouraging more people into finance agreements they can't repay is not a good thing though, I'm thinking more on a personal level although I haven't got a spare £4.5k. A shiny new Dacia would be ok for me as reliable, basic, dependable transport.However, if the scrap thing goes ahead then being able to get a new Dacia for your old car + £4.5k is actually not a bad deal. For anyone who must have a new car a Dacia is a lot better bet than say a Megane, Golf, Focus or whatever for the money. Should be fairly reliable and if you keep it a good long while then whole life costs won't be too dramatic.Better than what will happen otherwise - people chopping in their cars for £2.5k bung then financing themselves to death for a base model Golf or Focus costing upwards of £14k which after three years will be worth less than half that.Trouble is, most people will still buy the Focus / Golf and bleed themselves dry because of the perceived better image.I just think that Dacia Logans are a sensible thing and if you really want a new car then they would be a good option and were it that I was in the position to want / need a new car I'd be extremely tempted by one. Thats all