Bangernomics, when to give it up and what to buy?

[AnthonyG]

I haven't read all of this, but as DW says, steer clear of cheap Rover 75s, they are cars for enthusiasts or people who are happy to pay someone knowledgeable to maintain them. There is a lot to go wrong.

 

A Jaguar X type is a simpler car if you want that sort of thing, although most early ones were 4WD and came with the bigger engines (2.5/3.0 pez). They also hide rust behind the sill covers. 

 

I would say petrol Mondeo Mk3, or indeed Mk2 (saw a non rusty one today so they are some still some out there!), Pug 406 or Honda Accord.

 

The Mazda 6 is a nice car to drive but unfortunately they didn't bother with rust protection, and cheap ones will be fill of plug. If you do go look at one check the rear arches and sills very carefully, and check the underside as well. Probably no worse than any Sierra though, and nothing to worry a Cortina owner!!

 

I guess VW Passats (97-04 era) are also worth a look if they haven't all been sold to Romanians by now.

 

Most BMW 3 series in this price range will be fucked, as every chav and their uncle wants one. See also VW Golf/Bora.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I too would advise giving a cheap Rover 75 a swerve

[DaveAspley]

Mk3 mondeo 1.8, at absolute scrap money now. An 07 sold for £390 yesterday. Drive it til it drops and scrap it.

[beko1987]

not necessarily- had a 3dr 106 which because the seats fold and slide meant putting childseat in was just a matter of sitting on the back of front seat which means you are square on to seat/child

its much more awkward being side on thru a back door

 

TRY IT BEFORE YOU SAY NO OUTRIGHT

Amy had a friend with a 3 door Clio and 2 small kids (mentioned it here before a few years ago) and it wasn't horrific tbh. Until the seat reclining mechanism broke as its made of plastic. I cabletied it back together and it worked until she had it seized thru lack of tax.

 

Doors are fooking big and heavy though

[Lacquer Peel]

A lot of the fuel problems on older diesels are down to brittle old fuel pipes, connections and seals. 'Newer' XUDs have those shitty plastic fuel filter housings that draw in air all the time, even when you re-seal them. There's plenty of room in a Xantia 1.9D engine bay to mount a more rugged fuel filter housing, and run a fresh fuel pipe from the tank.

[Bren]

Remember Tony Blair "education" "education" "education"?

 

Here's mine - petrol petrol petrol

 

Unless you do the miles any diesel out of warranty has the potential to be a giant PITA.

 

Even with modern technology you can still tell when your driving a diesel.

 

The politicians will see them off, mark my words.

[Bamboocarman]

Remember Tony Blair "education" "education" "education"?

 

Here's mine - petrol petrol petrol

 

Unless you do the miles any diesel out of warranty has the potential to be a giant PITA.

 

Even with modern technology you can still tell when your driving a diesel.

 

The politicians will see them off, mark my words.

Agreed on all points; good advice.

[stephen01]

The thing that'll kill it will be trim and glass. I was taught in my early days of bus preservation to stockpile glass and unique fittings. This will start soon as they become harder to come by.

 

 

My old mechanic still has a MK1 Cav thats off the road due to a smashed front window.. 

 

The trouble with jap vehicles is when they shit themselves the price of parts is enough to bring on a stroke.

I had to get a crank pulley for our galant - £180 + vat.

Lots of stuff is main stealer only.

 

+1 been there done that.. 

[reanimation-films]

Well I am glad I asked. Cheers.

Hehe, Regarding the Scottish Andy thing, all the time I knew him he had his work cut out keeping his work cut out on restoring his own big fleet! Granted the man has got me out of some awkward squeezes though. Can ask what he think it is if ye like Jongong.

So basically I now have a fully reconditioned injector pump, this has definitely helped but seems to have loads of flat spots up the revs, I suppose 2300 revs or so has alway been a bit flat in winter and then a little surge, but its the shitest its ever been any winter. With the next fill up I'll put some millers treatment in and go to a real diesel station. Better have a good look myself at pipes and the filter housing again myself, if a jobs worth doing....

[Mr_Bo11ox]

What are you running it on?

[Taff]

So. What have we got?

 

A 20 year old French car, and a plethora of "issues" that do a sterling job challenging the "first world problems" thread.

 

Yes, an old French car will annoy you with numerous nuisances, which are in the end immaterial.

On the other hand, they go 5,000,000 million miles between oil changes and sustain any abuse you throw at them.

I can live with a door lock not working, a door card dissolving, and a window needing help to go all the way up, once you made the mistake of lowering it.

I can live with lacker lacur luquir clearcoat peel.

I can live with pogweasel pink.

 

What I can't live with, is having Adolf Hitler as a co-pilot.

What I can't live with, is the hype about the Japanesish rubbish, which amounts to nothing more than shiny shit from China without spare parts availability.

 

Do.

Not.

Believe.

That.

Japanese.

Tosh.

Is.

Any.

Better.

 

There is nothing really wrong with Japanese chod, but it isn't any superior. However, it lacks any originality and it's as exciting as having the measles without access to penicillin.

Even if it is 30 years old, it's oddly soulless. I should rather say Blues-less, maybe.

You say "safety". Well, listen to me, son. When your number is up, you go. It doesn't bloody matter how many airbags you surround yourself or your mini-clan with.

You'll be nuked at will by the fascist "ruling elite" anyway. Just get off my fucking nerves with this "safety" horseshit, would you now.

People die predominantly at home. Where is the legal requirement to wear a seat belt and crash helmet in your house?

 

Oh, and buy a Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon, if you want something akin to a Tonka toy for big boys. Because they start, where the Frogs left off.

 

Apart from that, I cannot possibly eat as much as I want to puke about this "oh, which shite I shall buy" horseshit.

Buy a Bristol 405. In beige. For fuck's bloody sake.

 

I'm not responsible.

 

 

I would go along with a lot of what JM sayeth. I always reckoned the big difference between  Deutche & Nippon was humourless efficiency & innovation. Bright eyed Japanese ideas always ended up being an issue, IMHO

[DaveAspley]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221635592436?redirect=mobile

[forddeliveryboy]

I suppose bangernomics has changed as lifestyles, expectations and cars have changed. Even opening the bonnet to check and top things up is almost frowned on by much of modern English society, you feel. Late 90s/early 2000s family saloons are cheaper than a weekend in a hotel - 500 buys a peach if you're bothered to look around. Some things are economically irrepairable, so the thing is scrapped and another bought as necessary.

 

Even the small hill farmer is cash rich with the EU benefit system today - they used to buy a cheap old car and another one for parts which had been crashed. That's probably the cheapest bangernomics - something like a Cavalier would make sense, if unrusty. Or an Audi 80 if you live somewhere a bit tougher on steel.

[forddeliveryboy]

You can keep 2cv's going forever but you've got to be bloody tough to run one in the winter! I rented one in France 2 or 3 years ago, blazing sunshire, roof back etc. Enjoyable for a day but jesus, I was fooked at the end!

 

It's all relative. I've yet to find a car more intrinsically tough or reliable than a 2cv. Corrosion is a problem for all old cars, a 2cv is more cheaply rebuilt than most. Unfortunately this low cost encourages those with little knowledge or interest, so sharks are more successful in the 2cv rebuilding industry than most. Was there something wrong with the car you drove? They should have a light clutch, lightish steering (if on the right tyres and the steering isn't fooked) and lovely, slick gearchange. If truly unfit, run a CX - hardly any strength required at all, other than the left leg if a manual clutch one.

 

Few cars are better than a 2cv in extreme winter weather, either. No coolant, water pump, hoses, head gaskets, heater matrix, distributor, underbody gearlinkages to freeze up and so on. Below -25C I've warmed the two NGKs or Densos up to 50C for instant starting. Simplicity really is the ultimate refinement, if it can be as superb as a (good - of which there are very few) little Cit. If you can be bothered, a 2cv's heater will send huge amounts of hot air into the cabin within a minute or two of setting off on an icy morning - much better than many a modern TDi.

[reanimation-films]

What are you running it on?

Sorry, no, just diesel, but there's topical debate about supermarket vs branded fuel stations. I believe the Lucas pump doesn't take veg oil anyway so never tried. So supermarket diesel.

[forddeliveryboy]

Lucas pumps are ok on veg, especially as the miles pile on, it's just that they don't like rotating amidst gloopy stuff. So don't start on a cold morning using that horrid GM Soya oil. I ran a Lucas with 75% veg which started from stone cold in winter 2010 (-17C), the fphe thinned the fuel well as the coolant temps rose. In the end it was cambelt roulette which did for the car.

[Honey Badger]

Parts for japs may be expensive, but they go wrong less, your choice.

 

It's hardly like the 6th gen accords were shipped in from Tokyo though, a lot of the design and engineering were done in the Uk and they were made in Swindon, it's probably the best screwed together car Honda europe ever made, certainly none of the newer Hondas give the same feeling of well made quality.

[barefoot]

Parts for japs may be expensive, but they go wrong less, your choice.

 

Isn't this because the parts are built properly, to do the job and to last?

As opposed to spares which cost peanuts, break regularly, don't fit well and need replacing again before the end of the year?

[xtriple]

I thought (though could well be very wrong) that the various Japanese companies don't compete with each other on shared components. By that I mean, one company will make all the servos, or relays, or pipework for all the various car co's so they get economy of scale but don't scrimp on quality. The same applies for all electronic things for cars and tellys/dvds etc.

 

That's why you get bits stamped Mitsubishi on Hondas and so on.

 

I could be wrong but I believe it was correct a  while ago.

[dollywobbler]

The reason Japanese cars don't work for me is that I change cars all the time, so investing in quality replacement parts is a bit of a waste of time. Though it's good news for whoever buys it off me. 

 

The XM could work well. I bought it very cheaply and am now investing in making it better, at a time when XM values seem to be rising. I'm protecting my pitiful investment. I could probably sell it for £600, but it doesn't owe me that much. Yet. It will do once I get those strut tops replaced...

[dugong]

Please tell me you are not recommending an XM. Yours does seem to work, which confuses me.

[reanimation-films]

Parts for japs may be expensive, but they go wrong less, your choice.

 

It's hardly like the 6th gen accords were shipped in from Tokyo though, a lot of the design and engineering were done in the Uk and they were made in Swindon, it's probably the best screwed together car Honda europe ever made, certainly none of the newer Hondas give the same feeling of well made quality.

Ohh I didn't know this, my old collegue had one of these and he's a bit dopey and can be a nightmare if totally lovely, i do find them really uninspiring but might have to get a close look, it will be a case of dodging ex taxi's though! :S

 

The old shape Civics have fallen to reasonable price too. and I actually like the Jazz even if it is a bit girly, who cares, they any good?

The HRV Soft roaders seem to be 4x4 so that makes tax more pricey than what I currently pay.

[dollywobbler]

To be honest, I got in to the XM world just in time. Within a year, running one on the cheap just won't be possible I reckon. Also, luck plays a huge part! This one seems decent, but some tales of woe are astonishing. It has to be said though, a lot of that woe comes from the higher-spec models. There really is less to go wrong on an SX. I'd be very wary of automatics, petrols and anything with the digital climate control.

[reanimation-films]

Please tell me you are not recommending an XM. Yours does seem to work, which confuses me.

Even my ex-new-citroen specialist who loves them said they are getting a bit too old now.

I'd like one but have to be looked after 2nd car

 

BTW is this your man in Accrington? Malcolm at Savoy? is he still there?

[dollywobbler]

Savoy is still going. Nice XMs seemingly making ten times what I paid for mine.

[reanimation-films]

Seems to be the case with a lot of retro cars now, while we were busy getting a bit older, so did the cars plus retro seems to be in fashion! All the cars I once owned and hopefully teh ones I still own (except the xantia) seem to be worth a bit now.

[gordonbennet]

People have always knocked Japanese cars for some reason.

 

Back in my kerbside cowboy days when you got a Corolla/Carina/Bluebird in they only usually ever needed regular servicing, meanwhile i was on first name terms at the Ford parts desk and spent ridiculous amounts of time fettling my own and other British cars.

 

Even when riddled with rust the Japanese stuff just kept going, electrical stuff streets ahead, once had a Prarie in running on about 2 cyls, removing the head found various exhaust valves burnt out and a hole in the head where it had burnt right through it had been like that so long, and still that bloody car started first touch and simply refused to break down.

 

The recent purchase of 2002 Legacy Outback for SWMBO has shown that the motors built in Japan are still engineered to last for a long time and to be fixed if they should break (been like turning the clock back), now thinking of getting another Landcruiser for me own knock about and work motor.

 

edit, me daughters gone the same way, she's on here second 2004'ish Honda Civic type S, she does serious miles and abuses the buggers terrible but they keep coming back for more and have never let her down, she popped round yesterday and i asked what she'll have next....another of the same was the answer.

[Honey Badger]

People have always knocked Japanese cars for some reason.

 

Back in my kerbside cowboy days when you got a Corolla/Carina/Bluebird in they only usually ever needed regular servicing, meanwhile i was on first name terms at the Ford parts desk and spent ridiculous amounts of time fettling my own and other British cars.

 

Even when riddled with rust the Japanese stuff just kept going, electrical stuff streets ahead, once had a Prarie in running on about 2 cyls, removing the head found various exhaust valves burnt out and a hole in the head where it had burnt right through it had been like that so long, and still that bloody car started first touch and simply refused to break down.

 

The recent purchase of 2002 Legacy Outback for SWMBO has shown that the motors built in Japan are still engineered to last for a long time and to be fixed if they should break (been like turning the clock back), now thinking of getting another Landcruiser for me own knock about and work motor.

 

edit, me daughters gone the same way, she's on here second 2004'ish Honda Civic type S, she does serious miles and abuses the buggers terrible but they keep coming back for more and have never let her down, she popped round yesterday and i asked what she'll have next....another of the same was the answer.

 

Agreed about the Type S civics, good combination of 2.0 engine in a decent sized car and they feel like they were very well built with good plastics and parts, I'd have another in a shot.

 

Shame the next generation Civic feel nowhere near as well built and the interior just feels cheap.

[reanimation-films]

People have always knocked Japanese cars for some reason.

snip

 

edit, me daughters gone the same way, she's on here second 2004'ish Honda Civic type S, she does serious miles and abuses the buggers terrible but they keep coming back for more and have never let her down, she popped round yesterday and i asked what she'll have next....another of the same was the answer.

 

A subaru would be great, I dont mind investing if it's something special to own and keep.

encouraging on the Civic, saw a (OMG rare) 5dr Type S which I could live with, poss overpriced at £1995, my insures would love me too!

[gordonbennet]

A subaru would be great, I dont mind investing if it's something special to own and keep.

encouraging on the Civic, saw a (OMG rare) 5dr Type S which I could live with, poss overpriced at £1995, my insures would love me too!

 

They hold good money for good reason both of hers have been 5 door as will the next, pretty well bomb proof, chain cam, keep the engine oil topped and changed regularly and the occassional gearbox oil change and there's very little else that will go wrong.

A bargain compared to the typeR, and apart from tune state more or less the same car.

 

Hers had to have a clutch this year, which isn't surprising considering its driven like its stolen, shes had this one for about 2 years now and it must be around 130/140k now, she's put around 50/60k hard miles on it.

 

A bonus being 195/65 x 15 tyres  and i can get Uniroyal Rain Experts for £40 a corner for it online.

 

The only other cars which have proved as tough have been the two Hyundais my lad had as a youngster, despite his best efforts he just couldn't break his Accent MVi (round shape) nor his original shape Coupe F2...he was cruel to these two but they stood it.