Leaking JTD Multipla injectors. Advice req

[Lankytim]

Hi gang,

 

The multipla was running shite so I stuck some good used injectors in. It's now running fantastic, but the wells where the injectors live are filing up with diesel and making a right mess. I've tried tightening up the securing nuts but broke a stud, which luckily was easy to get out and replace.

 

I've reused the copper washers at the base on the injectors, but should I have replaced then? I'm going to remove everything tonight, clean it all up, heat the copper washers to anneal them and see if that fixes the leaks.

 

Or am I doing it all wrong?

[t400ble]

So its leaking from the pipe supplying the diesel?

[Lacquer Peel]

You should replace the washers, they are single use.

[Pillock]

I thought pretty much anything copper on a car was designed to crush and mould, and it'll never fit the same again. VAG sump washers are the same.

[dave21478]

I very much doubt its filling up the injector wells from unburnt diesel being forced back up past the sealing washers....I would suggest more likely to be the supply rail or the return pipes.

[Lankytim]

It was leaking via the copper sealing washers, I took it all apart again, removed the crud from the injector sealing faces (there was loads of grime down there, I suspect this was the source of the leak- facepalm e.t.c.) and sanded the carbon from the copper washers. I then heated them up on the kitchen hob until they were cherry red. Reassembled everything and the leaks have gone as far as I can tell. Everything looks dry anyway.

 

I managed to loose 2 sockets from my Halfords "pro" socket set. FFS!!

 

In future i'll just get some new sealing rings, although I think the key is cleaning the sealing faces in the head and the injector.

 

Every day's a school day for me!

[Cavcraft]

Only on Autoshite would someone sand down some unuseable again washers and put them on gas mark 9 for a few hours. Then use them again.

[Lankytim]

I "sanded" them down on a brick too.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Hope it was a 'reclaimed' brick not a new one.

[Lankytim]

Neither, it was a brick that makes up my block driveway.

[dieselnutjob]

this is just wierd

[cort16]

I'm surprised it leaked back up like that there must have been half a packet of opel fruits or something down there.

[forddeliveryboy]

Beyond these rich* shores, people use shampoo for brake fluid, coconut oil for diesel and have their 504 rebuilt by roadside while they wait. Annealing a small copper washer on the hob isn't really such an Autoshite-exclusive event...

[Lankytim]

No, I actually just invented the annealing process specifically for this job.

[Lankytim]

...just had a call from the present Mrs Lankytim to say it won't start. FFS!!

 

I have a theory though. It's had the odd bout of non starting since the original battery died last week and I fitted a spare I had on the garage. This one is from a 1.4 Rover 25 and is much smaller, it seemed to do the trick however.

 

Although the cranking speed seems fine, I think the power hungry injectors could be being starved of enough electric to prevent them firing.

 

I guess I won't know until I stick a set of jump leads on.

[forddeliveryboy]

  On 15/09/2014 at 04:59, Lankytim said:

No, I actually just invented the annealing process specifically for this job.

 

I should have quoted the comment that "only on autoshite...". Was simply trying to point out it's not such a rare thing to do, despite the questioning comments.

[Lankytim]

I'm sure someone on here even painted an old head gasket in red oxide and reused it. Not sure if it worked or not.

[Lankytim]

Nope, it just wont go. It fires maybe once when I first turn the key but then it just turns over and over. Theres fuel at the injectors but I dont know if the injectors are firing. Weird how it ran A1 last night.

 

If I haven't broken something myself I'm wondering if the crank sensor has decided now is a good time to die.

[Lankytim]

Quick update (not that anybody cares) I got it going with E-Z start. I bled the fuel filter, bled the injectors but it no joy. I resorted to the evil E-Z start and after 5 mins of spraying it down the intake (downflow of the MAF) it eventually clattered into life.

 

No idea why it didn't want to go, maybe an injector is fecked and is letting air bleed back into the fuel rail overnight, but then I bled them all and it still didn't go.

 

I'll try again in the morning and see if the fix is temporary. 

[raggerminder]

I care.

The current Mrs is besotted with her Multipla, which is why we have owned three over the last 14 years (apart from a period of three months when conjugals were withdrawn). They are practical cars but they empty my wallet quicker than any Citroen I have ever owned.

[HH-R]

Camshaft sensor maybe?

[forddeliveryboy]

You need to (carefully) explain she needs an Alfa 6 (diesel).

 

[Lankytim]

Grrr. No start again this morning.

 

I'm still thinking there could be an air leak, but surely it would piss out fuel when the engine was running? A failed cam sensor would mean no running even with easy start wouldn't it?

[The Moog]

A leak would allow the fuel to drain back. Then it would show up as white smoke because of the incomplete burning of the diesel. If it was big enough then yes it would spurt diesel out, especially if it is in the high pressure part.

 

I would have thought that if you keep cranking it over it will catch if it is a simple leak because as fuel pressure builds up there should be enough at other injectors.

 

Once it caught with Easy start did it run well enough? Tried fault code reading or even live logging?

[Lankytim]

It ran fine with easy start, although it needed a few goes before it went. No matter how much I cranked it just wouldnt go without easy start. Perhaps an air leak on an individial injector could prevent all the injectors working as there would be effectively an air lock in the common rail pipe.

[Lankytim]

Nearly forgot, I haven't tried fault codes or live logging as I don't have the equipment.

[alf892]

On common rail ones you can get starting problems where an injector leaks a bit (into the cylinder) because it lets the rail pressure drop a bit. The high pressure pump then struggles to push out enough pressure with the overall effect of less fuel at lower pressure giving poor atomisation. The sniff of easy start helps because it either runs on it (or at least turns over quicker) so that fuel pressure gets back to nearer normal.

 

Once it has been run it will be OK until left for a 'while'...........the duration of this while being governed by how leaky your injector is.

 

Exactly same applies to any leakage in HP side. Like letting in air except no air is let in!

[cort16]

I take it the leak off test thing would show if one the injectors is running funky once it;s going on easy start?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPNnn0uX-68

[alf892]

you can get a good indication by just cranking and comparing the volumes collected.....no need to actually measure volumes at this point.

 

then repeat and empty/dry pots and leave injectors pointing in for a while..........a dribble will show.

 

Sometimes low fuel pressure will show on diagnostic.......but finding the actual cause will require human intervention.

[Lankytim]

Doesn't the fuel system self prime on common rail systems? It does when I change the fuel filter anyway.