Rust proofing products. Do manufacturers prey on the worried?

[Bobthebeard]

As header, just wondered if the 'rust proofing' treatments available are actually any better than just plain old engine oil when sprayed or daubed under our cars. The makers of these treatments tell us so, but are they just preying on our worries?

We are all* nowadays conditioned to believe that we 'must spend a lot of money' on a product to get the best, but is that really true?

Salt spray test results that are quoted may well be indicative of the products tested under certain conditions, but are they real world tests?

Much of the old chod that I have owned in the past has shown little or no rust where oil has been leaking and thus protected, even after 20 odd years.

Just 'cos a manufacturer of something tells us that it is great and wants our money doesn't make it great, just that they want our money.

Just a thought....

[Skizzer]

No offence, like, but didn't we already have an 'engine oil vs Dinitrol' thread about a week ago? Engine oil wasn't a clear cut winner, as I recall, though it has its fans.

 

If I just dreamt this, however, please tell me so I can up the dose on my meds.

[Bobthebeard]

No offence, like, but didn't we already have an 'engine oil vs Dinitrol' thread about a week ago? Engine oil wasn't a clear cut winner, as I recall, though it has its fans.

If I just dreamt this, however, please tell me so I can up the dose on my meds.

May have! In which case I missed it....

Oops.

[Bobthebeard]

No offence, like, but didn't we already have an 'engine oil vs Dinitrol' thread about a week ago? Engine oil wasn't a clear cut winner, as I recall, though it has its fans.

If I just dreamt this, however, please tell me so I can up the dose on my meds.

Although TBH I wasn't actually looking for comparisons, just asking about the effects of marketing/advertising on the 'worried' car owners really. Engine oil is free etc.....

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

You cold have something here, since as the owner of an old Jag I definately qualify as "worried about rust". I opened this thread first!!

[Inspector Morose]

That's how all marketing works. Make the person fearful of a problem then offer a solution. Thinking about it, that's how politics works these days too.

THXBYE.

[Bobthebeard]

You cold have something here, since as the owner of an old Jag I definately qualify as "worried about rust". I opened this thread first!!

Slightly along the lines that the marketing folk use for cosmetics. If XYZ serum lipfacehairbalm contains some mystery ingredient called Q15 or something then the ladies will be queuing up to part with their cash.

[Magnificent Rustbucket]

I'd consider rubbing anything on the damn car if it slows the rust down a bit!!

[Bobthebeard]

I'd consider rubbing anything on the damn car if it slows the rust down a bit!!

Ahhaa!

The marketers dream!

[chaseracer]

I'd consider rubbing anything on the damn car if it slows the rust down a bit!!

 

You are Stu_CDX AICM£5!

 

[londonm]

That's how all marketing works. Make the person fearful of a problem then offer a solution. Thinking about it, that's how politics works these days too.

THXBYE.

All marketing doesn't work on this principle. The main principle of it is you will be a more attractive and successful person if you buy this product.

[Bobthebeard]

All marketing doesn't work on this principle. The main principle of it is you will be a more attractive and successful person if you buy this product.

Quite so.... That was my point in a roundabout kind of way!

We iz suckers for a bit of marketing etc.

[Inspector Morose]

You are ugly/unsuccessful therefore without this product? I think we're arguing the same point from different angles.

[Skizzer]

That's how all marketing works. Make the person fearful of a problem then offer a solution.

That's a bit harsh. Some marketing, sure. But plenty of us do try to find genuine ways to provide something people want or need without conning them. Not all capitalists are bastards, and most of what you buy is not actually a rip-off.

 

You can use old engine oil as a rustproofer and save cash, but Waxoyl stays on longer (to summarise what I learned the other day). Up to you.

[Bobthebeard]

You are ugly/unsuccessful therefore without this product? I think we're arguing the same point from different angles.

Possibly, yes! Errr...

[Skizzer]

You will be a more attractive and successful person if you buy this product.

I don't think the attractive and successful people are out there Waxoyling the sills on their Maestros. That's just us. Sorry.

[Timewaster]

All marketing doesn't work on this principle. The main principle of it is you will be a more attractive and successful person if you buy this product.

In that case, the invented problem is that you aren't as successful and attractive as you could be.

[Inspector Morose]

No, no, no. I'm not trying to be harsh but it's what I get from see on the telly and seen in mags and such. It's the "germs/bugs/dirt/old things will kill you and your family and make them all ugly and losers but here is something that can save you from a that" style of adverts that I thought the op was on about. Obviously not.

Capitalism sucks but the only real alternative sucks even more. I have no preference on the matter.

[Bobthebeard]

I don't think the attractive and successful people are out there Waxoyling the sills on their Maestros. That's just us. Sorry.

No, the attractive and successful will be not Waxoyling their Bentleys, Porsches or Lamborghini........

All the better for us when they rust out, and in 2020 and we can buy them for £300

[mercrocker]

Its not scientific - buuuut...The bits of my Morris I treated properly have not rusted yet.   The front chassis leg right ( where the A series leaks like a Tory scapegoat) has just shat  itself onto the road.   The very act of rustproofing does at least enable you to find holes where  there should be rusty steel as opposed to leaving it cos it looked nice and oily....

[Bobthebeard]

Its not scientific - buuuut...The bits of my Morris I treated properly have not rusted yet.   The front chassis leg right ( where the A series leaks like a Tory scapegoat) has just shat  itself onto the road.   The very act of rustproofing does at least enable you to find holes where  there should be rusty steel as opposed to leaving it cos it looked nice and oily....

Ahem,

The original point being, is rustproofing with, say, 30 year old Waxoyl diluted with old engine oil (free) any worse than using Swiss Balm Ultra CrackaWax hand made by virgins at £80 per 100 ml.

'They' tell us that it is, but they would wouldn't they?

[wackywacerwill]

To answer the question I'd say yes, but some treatments seem to work.

 

Pound shop top coat doesn't make a good seal over fresh metal, even with zinc primer and waxoyl inside*

 

*other factors may come into the equation here, like water traps and self tapered finishing strips for instance.

[mat_the_cat]

The main principle of it is you will be a more attractive and successful person if you buy this product.

 

Funnily enough I've been waxing the underneath of the van this evening with (expensive) S-50 wax. I'm certain I looked even less attractive after the job than before I started, and given that I managed to drop the can right on my forehead (which has consequently swollen up), I'm not sure I fall into the successful category either.

 

In seriousness though, it seems more penetrative than Waxoyl but only 10 years or so will give me any idea of how it compares, and even then hardly a scientific comparison!

[Bobthebeard]

Funnily enough I've been waxing the underneath of the van this evening with (expensive) S-50 wax. I'm certain I looked even less attractive after the job than before I started, and given that I managed to drop the can right on my forehead (which has consequently swollen up), I'm not sure I fall into the successful category either.

 

In seriousness though, it seems more penetrative than Waxoyl but only 10 years or so will give me any idea of how it compares, and even then hardly a scientific comparison!

Not about comparisons... Just about how we are 'sold' stuff really....

We are 'sold' it so we believe it etc...

I give up!

[Skizzer]

It's the "germs/bugs/dirt/old things will kill you and your family and make them all ugly and losers but here is something that can save you from a that" style of adverts

Yep, I'm right there with you on that.

[mat_the_cat]

Not about comparisons... Just about how we are 'sold' stuff really....

We are 'sold' it so we believe it etc...

 

Fair enough, in which case I agree with you. It has to be potentially the biggest single expense in either time or money when restoring a car, so it's natural for us to be worried and cling to any hope the manufacturers can give us. We like to believe that we are putting on the best possible products, to minimise that worry so by paying more for something, we feel (sometimes regardless of proof) that we are doing the best we can. The last statement could apply equally well to anti-aging creams!

[Bobthebeard]

Fair enough, in which case I agree with you. It has to be potentially the biggest single expense in either time or money when restoring a car, so it's natural for us to be worried and cling to any hope the manufacturers can give us. We like to believe that we are putting on the best possible products, to minimise that worry so by paying more for something, we feel (sometimes regardless of proof) that we are doing the best we can. The last statement could apply equally well to anti-aging creams!

A good point well made. Thanks.

[Honey Badger]

Salt spray testing is a complete bastard, I've seen samples of 1.5mm cold rolled steel come out of a salt cabinet after a month that you can rub off half the thickness of the metal in flakes, there's a reason it's an industry standard.

 

If something can survive a full round of testing from one of the salt spray machines as long as its been carried out to a relevant astm or British standard, then it gets a vote of confidence from me.

 

 

Most of the work on this kind of coating is in getting the film thickness and adhesion right, it might well be that old engine oil will protect you car for 6 months before reapplication is needed but a product like S-50 might protect it for 5 years with comparable results.

[New POD]

Don't use old engine oil, unless you hate motorcyclists.

[brickwall]

Epoxy metal resin is great. Just paint it on instead of sticking things together.