Oops...a lesson learnt the hard way

[phil_lihp]

Well we all make mistakes, don't we? If someone came up to me and said "Hey, I'm looking at buying a scruffy old motorbike off a bloke 250 miles away, I have seen one fuzzy picture of the side profile but nothing else, any advice?" I would tell them to find out the registration number and run a check on it.

 

I'm clearly no good at following my own advice. I've been blatting around on it for a couple of weeks and slowly fixing its little faults and today suddenly remembered I'd never checked the registration. I sent a text to mycarcheck and...

 

M****** IS DAMAGE CATEGORY B. LOSS DATE 24-08-2012. BREAK FOR SPARE PARTS IF ECONOMICALLY VIABLE.

 

With a sinking feeling I googled "motorbike category B" and got...

 

Category B

Bike may not be returned to road.

Parts may be sold. Motorcycle itself may not be resold. Damaged beyond economical repair, usually with severe structural/frame damage. Parts can be removed and sold.

 

Well bollocks. I phoned my insurance company who were helpful and understanding and are going to call me tomorrow once their underwriters have confirmed the bike's current status. They have confirmed that if it is a Cat B then they will no longer insure it but at least will give me 7 days notice of the cancellation so I might get a chance at least to use up some of the fuel I just put in the tank. Apparently this happens quite a lot when someone has 3rd party only insurance and prangs their bike - from what I could gather, a category marker is put against it but the insurer doesn't actually have juristiction of the bike so it isn't taken away and can escape back into the wild if it's repaired enough to pass an MOT (mine passed an MOT a month after the write-off date).

 

Given the warning signs, I should have known something was wrong - the ignition key doesn't match the steering and storage lock (to be honest, not entirely surprising on an 18 year old bike that's had 11 owners) and the wiring to one indicator had inexplicably been cut. The horn and plastic mount with Honda emblem on the front are missing as is one side panel, suggesting it's been robbed for parts at some point.

 

Bottom line is I'm left with a bike I may not be able to even sell on as a whole - I may have to scrap it or break it for parts (not really viable given the storage situation here). It seems mad as although it's cosmetically a bit scruffy and battered, the engine's sweet and it goes and stops very well.

 

So there, I know I'm preaching to the choir but moral of the story is: check it before you buy it! I'd have saved myself this loss for the sake of a £3 text message. Never mind, worse things happen every day

[fordperv]

that's poo what about getting a straight one needing work and make a good un, I almost learned the hard way on a car, I bought an escort rs turbo didn't check it out and when I did it came up as stolen in 1995 never found at that moment I got on the phone to the guy I bought it off, we had a polite chat and he decided to have it back from me and I was a happy boy again

[Station]

I did the same. My red Astra GSi had been CAT C write off twice. I found out when they wrote it off as another CAT C for the third time. Which also invalidated my claim for a scratch on the bumper. Car lasted for nearly 10 years in my possession, until I sold it and the fella wrote it off good and proper when he crashed it into a bus a week later.

[Cavcraft]

I had a car once that was a Cat B a few years before. Got it insured ok and having made some calls it seemed some do, or did, slip the net.

 

Regarding your bike, I don't get the correlation between 3rd party only insurance and writing a bike off. I'd have thought if you were 3rd party only you wouldn't be able to claim off your insurance for any repairs or if it was stolen, as 3rd party only means exactly that: you are only covered for damage to other vehicles or people.

I could of course be entirely incorrect, it's just my fuzzy memory tells me the above.

Oh, I have to say not many people would bother HPi-ing an old bike like that, so fwiw I wouldn't beat yourself up over it fella.

[phil_lihp]

fordperv; yes in theory that is an option but I have not really got the space or facilities sadly to do major work. I won't disregard it as an option yet though.

 

I've been doing some digging on the interwebs and found some really helpful discussions which cover this scenario. The answer is dead clear:

 

You can't ever ever ever return it to the road, no insurance company will ever touch it, it's forever tainted, it's nothing more than a mobile collection of parts now.

You absolutely can return it to the road, it just needs to pass a VIC check and then it will be perfectly legal and insurable.

 

There's also some other versions in between. I do love armchair experts arguing on the internet. I suspect the first one is the most accurate though. I'm not sure who can give me a clear, accurate answer on this one, DVLA weren't any help at all (shocker!), I guess I'll have to wait and see what the insurers say tomorrow.

[phil_lihp]

Cav, no I don't really get the connection, I don't remember his exact words when he explained it but it seemed to make sense at the time. Something to do with the bike having been identified with the CAT B marker by someone after an accident but the insurance company not actually having any interest or right to take it away and have it disposed of. I have no idea how that works though, my knowledge of insurance pretty much stops at renewing it with the lowest bidder every year.

[Morgan84]

Export it maybe ?

[Junkman]

What does the seller have to say to this?

[ruffgeezer]

Are you local to me? We could part it out in my workshop if you want?

[hairnet]

if it is down as cat b then you will have to stop using it - as for cars its break only

 

cat c and d on bike you dont need a vic check - vans and some trucks are exempt also

[Tetleysmooth]

Oh bugger.

Surely the seller broke the law in some way by not telling you its status.

I'd have a bash at getting your money back.

[phil_lihp]

  ruffgeezer said:

Are you local to me? We could part it out in my workshop if you want?

 

Thanks, that's a really generous offer but I suspect I am a long, long way away as I'm in Devon. It's OK, I will hopefully be able to sell it on as 'parts only' as a whole lot, I'm going to speak to VOSA first though. Not sure about export, might look in to that though.

 

As for the seller, I suspect he might not have known, from the V5 stub he gave me it looks like he's only had the bike since November 2012, several months after the fact. That said, I have emailed him explaining the situation and asked him if he knew, I've yet to get a response. He didn't have the full V5 but said he'd send it on when it arrived - he said he'd already been waiting 5 weeks for it. As it now turns out, that would be because the DVLA won't issue one, but he should have had some correspondence to that effect.

 

I'm keeping an open mind as to who's fault this is and as far as I'm concerned it's now mainly mine for not checking it.

[Cavcraft]

Best thing to do there is bell the DVLA. They won't tell you who was the last owner, nor who has applied for the V5 but they will tell you when the last change of keeper was

[phil_lihp]

Yeah, I've spoken to the DVLA twice but not specifically regarding the previous owner, I know from the V5 stub that it was issued in November 2012, the write-off was done in early September and it was MOT'd in October.

 

My insurance company confirmed that it is indeed a CAT B and cannot be insured - so that's cancelled. The bike's had its final journey and won't ever see the road again. They gave me the name of the company who wrote it off last year and I managed to get some useful information out of them, quite interesting really. That company hadn't covered the bike as they don't do motorbike insurance, my bike was crashed into by their insured car driver. The rider claimed for injury compensation through a solicitor which is where the bike's CAT B came from - the car insurer wrote the bike off as part of the claim with notes that the front end and nearside were seriously damaged.

 

The bike was then handed back to the owner through the solicitors along with a payout minus the scrap value of the bike - the solicitors should have informed him of his responsibilities to scrap the bike properly but the insurance company had no rights to the bike so had no choice but to hand it back. Instead of following the advice (assuming the solicitors actually relayed the information accurately) what he did it seems is to sell it on either as it was or after repairs, most likely to the guy who sold it to me. He has then sold it on, either because he found out it was a write-off (which makes him a culprit as well) or maybe for innocent reasons.

 

I've got a couple of identity checks to do on it to make sure this is its "only" problem, and more chasing up of the previous owner, then assuming he doesn't want to refund me (can't think why he would want to and I have no legal redress) I can either a) reframe it (lots of work I don't have the facilities to do right now but probably the best option) , scrap it (with a huge loss) or c) break it for parts (not happening).

 

I thought this might make interesting reading - if it prompts one person reading it to run a check on a prospective car/bike purchase they wouldn't otherwise have done, it's worth it.

 

Thanks for your advice & suggestions, much appreciated.