Xantia acquired - now with (pre-clean) pics

[MrDuke]

So, after seeing more and more pictures of BXs (well, only 2 BXs really) on here while lurking, I've decided to think about the possibility of considering looking for one. Maybe.

 

I really need a large-capacity oil-burner, and mental images of self-levelling suspension and mono-spoke steering wheels are making me slightly moist. I really want a 405 estate, but management says they look "too big" for her to drive. I'm hoping the deceptive angles of a BX will win her over.

 

I'd appreciate a brief but HONEST list of major headaches that will likely ensue: if I change my eternally-dependable 80s Nissan for one, roughly how soon should I expect divorce proceedings to start? Also, what should I expect to pay for a 'clean' one?

 

Apologies for sounding like a n00b - the BX is one car I've never, ever seen any appeal in, and the new experience of finding them attractive is mildly upsetting. And it's all your fault DW and VA, you b****rds

[Guest]

Make sure the pedal box is in decent nick. The throttle pivot at the top of the box often breaks, because it's a shitty piece of plastic. The welded rods on the accelerator pedal arm itself can also detach and leave the pedal itself flobbering around and sitting at a weird angle, giving you approximately 10% of the travel that would normally be available.

 

Ask me how I know this.

[vulgalour]

Further to Watanabe's advice, LHM leaks, oil leaks, rust, these are all things you can expect as I've learned in my short ownership thus far. Parts are, happily, quite cheap on the whole but they're horrible cars to work on mechanically with everything being in the way of everything else. Check both ends of the sills, under the washer bottles and the front inner wings for rot. If it's an estate, check the whole back end for rot. Inside of the front wheels show up LHM leaks from return pipes if there's no obvious puddles on the floor and any liquid sticking to the under side is worth the finger test to see if it's black and greasy (oil) or green and sticky (LHM) for other leaks. Rocker cover gaskets leak and bottom balljoints tend to go too. This is just stuff I've learned from my shonkfest of an example, but I love it anyway.

 

They do make up for all the above by being superb in every other way they can be. Interiors are spacious and comfortable, seats are supportive and lovely. The diesel engines are agricultural, but you barely notice it in the car due to masses of soundproofing everywhere. They're easy to lope across the country in and they're fantastic on the motorway and even in traffic. Visibility is excellent all around the car (might be different with the hatchbacks) and while there's a lot of plastic inside it doesn't feel brittle and flimsy like some 90s cars.

 

As for replacing a trusty 80s Nissan well... that's the sort of madness you need to put up with a BX I'd say. Prices hover around the 6-800 mark for a good one, they still rarely seem to top £1,000 even for really flash examples. It's probably the pub talk of complicated suspension and the real problem of thin sheet steel that puts people off them as a desirable classic and that in turn seems to keep the prices down at the moment.

 

DW will likely know more than I do, he has more BXperience than I do.

[Micrashed]

Citroen BX by Micrashed, on Flickr

BX's are not for the faint of heart. This "enthusiast" owned example needed the following:

New HP line

New ball joints

New LHM

New gearbox oil

New clutch

New fuel lines

Much welding (wings, boot floor, exhaust hanger and under rear bumper)

New brake pads & new OS calliper

 

Oh, and many bits are now unobtainable, such as the braided block to heater hoses that always rub through at the back of the engine. Good luck sourcing one of those for reasonable money.

[catsinthewelder]

Clutch's in general can be a bit of a pain with a cable that stretch's and a gearbox that can be a bit crunchy even when all is well.

 

The hot/cold valve on the heating can easily seize into place if left for any length of time breaking the brittle plastic operating knob and being a pain to fix.

 

It's rare that they look rusty but check the door shuts carefully along with the bits VA mentioned

 

Not bad cars though, I was supposed to be getting a 405 estate when our last one popped up on freecycle, unfortunately it was rather rusty about the bulkhead and a-pillars so wasn't really worth fixing when the engine died a couple of years later.

[dollywobbler]

Key rot spots are the A posts (around door hinges), B post (where it meets the sill) C posts (check the rear door shuts) and the rear crossmember (get underneath and look behind the rear bumper). Estates can suffer from rotten rear wings, and you can't get replacements (hatchbacks can rot here, but not as often, and you can still get entire rear quarters).

 

Hydraulics aren't as scary as you might think, but you DO need to get your head around how it all works, so the sight of a small green puddle doesn't fill you with immediate fear.

 

They are quite large - they were always priced against stuff like the Vauxhall Astra and Ford Escort - but they've very angular, which makes parking pretty easy. Estates are far better in terms of rear visibility.

 

For the best single-spoke steering experience, you need a Mk1, but there's only one Mk1 estate (RHD) in the UK. Later, chunkier style single-spoke wheel was fitted up to TGD spec, but some BXs have a four-spoke wheel. As much as I love the single-spoke wheel, the four-spoke one is more comfortable as there's somewhere to rest your thumbs...

 

Later diesels have 71bhp, turbo diesels 88.5. If you like a simple life and are not in a hurry, go non-turbo. The turbo engine bay is exceedingly cosy.

 

Feel free to meander over to www.bxclub.co.uk to find out more.

[MrDuke]

Typical, after making me want one, you make me weep with frustration

 

Seriously, thanks for the advice people - some of that I knew, some I didn't, so it's all good. Maybe I should go for the 405 anyway and risk incurring Wrath from Above. I think, if I was going to get involved in major welding and front-end strip-downs, I'd go the whole hog and get a CX.

[Lacquer Peel]

Xantia, FTW. Rust resistant, still fitted with magic suspension and simple engines.

[dollywobbler]

Typical, after making me want one, you make me weep with frustration

 

Seriously, thanks for the advice people - some of that I knew, some I didn't, so it's all good. Maybe I should go for the 405 anyway and risk incurring Wrath from Above. I think, if I was going to get involved in major welding and front-end strip-downs, I'd go the whole hog and get a CX.

 

I must concede that the 405 is a fine looking vehicle, with a few less foibles. I know we've listed a lot of potential issues here, but don't forget that any car of this age is going to have issues by now. BXs are pretty good considering how many of them have clocked up daft mileage.

[oman5]

I had 2 Bx flavour citroens, best was by far the TD. Mine went like stink and you couldnt get the mpg under 45 if you tried.

The one additional thing I would check is that the back wheels don't appear to be toeing out, its common and a sign that the arm bushes are worn.(radius arm? is that right?) its an expensive job if you have to pay someone to do it.

I agree its worth swotting up on the hydraulic system. it looks daunting at first but is really quite logical.

[dollywobbler]

I had 2 Bx flavour citroens, best was by far the TD. Mine went like stink and you couldnt get the mpg under 45 if you tried.

The one additional thing I would check is that the back wheels don't appear to be toeing out, its common and a sign that the arm bushes are worn.(radius arm? is that right?) its an expensive job if you have to pay someone to do it.

I agree its worth swotting up on the hydraulic system. it looks daunting at first but is really quite logical.

 

Good point about the rear arm bearings. Far easier on a BX than a torsion-bar equipped Cit or Pug though. Cost me just over £200 to have them done on the silver BX. It's not toeing out though, it's negative camber you need to look for. If really bad, you'll get all manner of creaks from the rear suspension.

[dieselnutjob]

A 305 diesel looks smaller, is more shite, and is an excellent car apart from lack of power steering. Though I think it was an option.

[willswitchengage]

I don't plan on keeping this for very long, "for future reference"

 

[Vanny]

Continuing the latest craze in plastic;

 

[MrDuke]

I don't plan on keeping this for very long, "for future reference"

 

 

Oooohh, that's rather nice Unfortunately I suspect it'll be slightly too nice for my budget, although I would be tempted by it until a decent estate came up.

[willswitchengage]

It's a bit of a shed to be honest! Only bought it as I needed a cheap (BX cheap ) big run around that I wouldn't mind getting covered in mud. It'll probably be for sale in a few months anyway as I have the hots for dollywobbler and his six-cars-a-year passion.

[mrcitroen]

Good luck on the BX hunt. They are triffic motors indeed. Most important bits have been covered so I think you are armed with a lot of info. I have suffered from most of the common BX issues over the years, having replace raer arm bearings & done re pipes etc. Corrosion is now the biggest enemy. Mine is rot free now having the rear box sections tickled with a mig a few month's back. The extent of rot here cannot really be seen with the car on the ground & really needs the subframe removing for a proper look & repair.

 

They really need to be kept on top of if you are using daily. I confess that mine is only used a few times a week now, but is still used all year round as it is more versatile than my Alfa in certain circumstances.

 

Volksangyl has certainly got in at the deep end & is doing really well.

 

I have grown up with Citroens & owned BX's since I was 19 so they don't frighten me! They are not as complex as some say. A lot of knowledgeable people out there & good info on the net.

 

My BX

 

[Micrashed]

2 bags will land you this:

Must be sold to caring owner with a garage and wants a "fairweather BX", its FAR too nice to be used and abused in all weathers

Though for me its a bit rich and for 2 bags I would be wanting it totally stock original not "upgrded". But it is nice one.

[MrDuke]

Yep, that's a real stunner, although it needs a genuine enthusiast (rather than me). Also, mine would have to be a diesel. To be fair, if I had £2k to blow, I'd be looking at XMs or chipped Passats.

[scooters]

Why specifically a diesel? Unless you intend to do big miles then I would also consider a 1.6 or BC16. the 1.6 in the meteor for instance cranks out 90 bhp the same as the tzd and returns an average 30mpg. Due to the lighter weight it is a more sprightly handler and has a carb rather than efi and all the related hassles. The XU 1.6 in the meteor is a very tough unit indeed.

I have had 5 BXs 3 CXs and an XM out of the BXs I've owned 2 x turbo diesels, a 1.9 diesel, a Gti and the BX 16 meteor. I used to swear by diesel and the XUD until I got the 16. Which IMHO is a more 'Citroën' experience than the Gti...ie softer spheres, modest engine put to efficient use, skinny tyres, great ride and handling, light but strong. Andre Citroën was all about the efficient application of effort.

 

Rust wise, for their age these are pretty solid cars, rear wheel arches on the slam panel and the boot floor, the occasional bulkhead also. Thing is, they are so cheap these days that if you intend to keep the car it is worth repairing. Moorings doesn't get much cheaper and there is excellent online support. Remember, the BX hydropneumatic is a simpler affair than that of the CC, XM and Xantia

[Lacquer Peel]

I don't see how the non-Hydractive Xantia can be more complex hydropneumatically (that's a word now, yes) than the BX.

[Richard]

All but the very first Xantias have anti-sink, which adds a sphere and some pipes- and the anti-sink valve of course. I don't think it makes them any harder to deal with though.

[MrDuke]

Why specifically a diesel? Unless you intend to do big miles then I would also consider a 1.6 or BC16. the 1.6 in the meteor for instance cranks out 90 bhp the same as the tzd and returns an average 30mpg. Due to the lighter weight it is a more sprightly handler and has a carb rather than efi and all the related hassles. The XU 1.6 in the meteor is a very tough unit indeed.

I have had 5 BXs 3 CXs and an XM out of the BXs I've owned 2 x turbo diesels, a 1.9 diesel, a Gti and the BX 16 meteor. I used to swear by diesel and the XUD until I got the 16. Which IMHO is a more 'Citroën' experience than the Gti...ie softer spheres, modest engine put to efficient use, skinny tyres, great ride and handling, light but strong. Andre Citroën was all about the efficient application of effort.

 

I really need a load-lugger that can pull some weight and/or a trailer, otherwise I'd be keeping the Cherry anyway. I would consider a 1.6 if one came up at a decent price, but the qualities you mention might be a bit wasted in my case! - although I'm not after a complete workhorse to use & abuse, either - hence wanting something with a bit of character that I can enjoy for what it is at the same time.

[dollywobbler]

IIRC, there is no difference in spheres between 16 and 19 NA diesel. Turbo diesels had firmer spheres. The one thing that stops me owning a petrol BX is carburettor concerns. The French seemed to forget how to make carburettors during the 1980s. A 1.9 fuel injection would be nice though. Quite torquey, nicely brisk, pretty reliable.

[scooters]

@Leonard eh?

The Xantia had Hydractive suspension from the start of production and was an enhanced version of the one on the XM.

 

The BX suspension is more straightforward than that in the CX because it does not have double wishbones up front. It uses a Macpherson strut linked directly to the hub assembly rather than the more complex system found on the CX where the 'strut' is linked to an upper wishbone. IN this respect the BX has more in common with a 'normal' car than the CX or DS.

 

IMHO BX suspension is less complex that the XM or Xantia which share a similar design to the BX because it is not comupter controlled and therefore lacks the potential for electical gremlins that especially early XMs suffered from.

 

DW - I was comparing the 1.6 ride to the 1.9 Gti ride rather than the diesels. The 1.9 Gti had the harder spheres as well and wider tyres. I owed a Gti and did many miles in it but it felt more like a 'normal' car than a traditional Citroen whereas the 1.6 had the skinny tyre/rolypoly but stuck to the road ride.

[Richard]

Only the posh Xantia models ever had Hydractive, LX and SX didn't. As far as I know the early 'sinkers' had exactly the same set up as the BX.

[garethj]

As expected, now I've bought DW's silver BX a white Porsche 924 has come up for sale. You could buy it off me, then I'd be in trouble with Mrs_garethj 3 times in a week - for getting rid of the 205, for buying a BX and again for buying a 924

[Vanny]

As far as I know the early 'sinkers' had exactly the same set up as the BX.

 

^ This is true, all the L and M-reg Xanita's i've worked on (thankfully not many) have pretty much a carbon copy of the BX setup. Even down to the evil FDV. From memory i think a lot of the part numbers where simply carried over as well.

[dollywobbler]

As expected, now I've bought DW's silver BX a white Porsche 924 has come up for sale. You could buy it off me, then I'd be in trouble with Mrs_garethj 3 times in a week - for getting rid of the 205, for buying a BX and again for buying a 924

 

Is that some sort of Autoshite Fail going on there? "I wanted a Porsche but ended up with a Citroen turbo diesel."

[Guest]

Gareth, commit real mentalness, and buy my Murena.