It's really a 'xxxx' underneath.

[Spiny Norman]

A comment in another thread got me thinking.

 

There are quite a few cars that get the accusation that they're "really just a 'xxxx' underneath, like the Rover 75 being based on the 5 series (never believed that one meself..) or the Jaguar X Type is a Mondeo, the Saab 9-3 is a Vectra etc...

 

My question is this. How many common parts do these cars actually share with each other? I know there are vague mutterings abou suspension pick up points and sections of floorpan pressings being common to (say) the 2001 on Mondeo and the X-Type, plus the tractor engines, but are there any actual shared components to justify the sniffy-ness you hear from some people about these cars?

Ditto the Saab 9-3/Vectra thing, I know the newer Saabs use the GM 1.9 Diseasel lump but apart from that there's nothing in the way of actual interchangeable bits, is there?

[fiatdaft]

Aye a fair amount of bits,and it isn't a gm diesel,its a fiat one.

[Shep Shepherd]

I'm told that a lot of the Saab GM900/9-3/9-5 mechanical and electrical bits are superficially the same as Cavalier/Vectra parts but will not interchange as Saab completely re-engineered them to their own standards. No doubt this will cause a lot of consternation in years to come

[Albert Ross]

Poogo 107, Citroen C1, Toymota Aygo..... even the lesser models have obvious Toyota bits in them. Yeah, WE all know where they're from, but the ignorant buying public have no clue. I remember a freind asking for recommendations about small cars to buy, I suggested a Punto, her response? "I didn't think you liked French cars"...........

[Guest]

Sorry to be really vague here but I remember something about a Saab??? being same floor pan as an Mitsubishi Evo? Someone pulled the carpets etc up and there was the pressngs where the rear diff/ subframe and that would mount?

[Shep Shepherd]

Sorry to be really vague here but I remember something about a Saab??? being same floor pan as an Mitsubishi Evo? Someone pulled the carpets etc up and there was the pressngs where the rear diff/ subframe and that would mount?

 

I don't know about that, but something called the Saab 9-2x was sold in the States for a bit. It was more or less a Subaru Impreza wagon with a Saab front end:

 

 

[Lacquer Peel]

Sorry to be really vague here but I remember something about a Saab??? being same floor pan as an Mitsubishi Evo? Someone pulled the carpets etc up and there was the pressngs where the rear diff/ subframe and that would mount?

 

Are you thinking about the Volvo S/V40 and Mitsubishi's Lancer-based Carisma which shared a platform and factory?

[Split_Pin]

The Peugeot 605 shared a floorpan with the Citroën xm.

 

The Fiat 125 saloon was a modified 125 body, new dohc engines but mated to, using fillets sections under the sills to the old 1500 underpan. Hence the leaf springs at the back.

 

The Mazda 3 (or was it still a 323 at that point) of 2004 used the next gen Focus chassis.

 

The Honda Legend and Rover 800 are the same underneath too, so I have read.

[Shep Shepherd]

The Hyundai Stellar is meant to be closely related to the Ford Cortina '80' underneath

[dollywobbler]

Citroen's range has some oddities.

 

Citroen C1 - actually a Toyota Aygo, built in Czech.

Citroen C-Crosser - actually a Mitsubishi Outlander, built in Japan for a time, but soon moved to Holland and the old DAF factory.

 

Those two are little more than exactly the same car with a few styling tweaks though. Actual platform sharing is a world I don't fully understand. I mean, a Skoda Superb is a bit more than just a facelifted Passat these days. I'd love to know what the actual carry-over is between the two.

[Spiny Norman]

I once mentioned to an Audi driving mate that I was looking at an X type Jag.

I got the usual dismissive '..posh Mondeo..' response as expected, but his face really fell when I told him to see how at home he felt in a Skoda Octavia after being in his Audi.....

VAG really know how to platform share.

[fiatdaft]

Nothing new though is it,look at the british car industry from the 50's onwards.

[messerschmitt owner]

the Ford Mondeo diesel is really just the same as the petrol one but with a different engine and fuel type?

[Lankytim]

Pug 405 and Xantia share the same "platform" apparently. No idea how that works, with the different suspension types.

[Lacquer Peel]

It's BX-405, Xantia-406, and C5-407, Citroen always gets in first with the new big car platforms. I believe hydropneumatic Citroens use struts that fit in the same space as Peugeot's conventionally sprung ones.

The 405 is similar enough to use BX rear suspension for the 4x4 models, the rear suspension unit looks quite similar to the 405's, except the 405 uses transverse torsion bars for springing.

[dollywobbler]

Aye. BX was the first Citroen to use hydro-struts up front - presumably because swapping them for coil-struts on the 405 was easy enough. I'd still like to see both floorpans to have a proper gander and see how many differences there are though.

[Guest]

Sorry to be really vague here but I remember something about a Saab??? being same floor pan as an Mitsubishi Evo? Someone pulled the carpets etc up and there was the pressngs where the rear diff/ subframe and that would mount?

 

Are you thinking about the Volvo S/V40 and Mitsubishi's Lancer-based Carisma which shared a platform and factory?

 

Ha yeah!!! Thats it!!! Thanks

[Paul Dupart]

Didn't SAAB 9000, Alfa 164 and Fiat Croma (and was there a Lancia involved) share the same floorpan? Code named the 'type 4' AISTR?

But then SAAB re did everything to their standards!

[Lankytim]

The Bugatti Veyron and VW Lupo are the same car with different badges

[dollywobbler]

Didn't SAAB 9000, Alfa 164 and Fiat Croma (and was there a Lancia involved) share the same floorpan? Code named the 'type 4' AISTR?

But then SAAB re did everything to their standards!

 

Yup. Sat in the ex-Bollox Croma yesterday so I could make comparisons with the Alfa and Saab I'd previously owned. There ended up being very little shared between the four cars other than the flat roofline! The Alfa is probably most different - the Croma body feels much more similar to the Saab than I expected. Saab did go their own way with the engineering though, and it feels a much more solid car. S'pose I'd better try and find a Lancia Thema now so I can complete the comparison.

 

Which O/T reminds me. I saw a Lancia Thema 8.32 ESTATE the other day! Was driving a bus, so no chance of a piccy. Was on Italian plates.

[Tayne]

The Bugatti Veyron and VW Lupo are the same car with different badges

 

Just like a Golf.

[Guest]

Pug 405 and Xantia share the same "platform" apparently. No idea how that works, with the different suspension types.

 

Think it goes up from the platform as well, my 405 Estate ended up with quite a few Xantia leccy parts as easier to get hold of.

The ignition barrel is a straight swap for a start just different shape keys.

[Mr H Sceptre]

There must be shitloads of VAG models sharing the same platform as the Golf.

 

Off the top of my head: VW Golf/Golf Plus/Jetta/Touran, Audi A3, Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon/Toledo/Altea (I think the last 2 Seats are Golf-based anyway)

 

That beats the AD016 badge engineering by a country mile!!

[Lankytim]

They reckon that SAAB engineered alot of GM's offerings out of their cars, so how much of the SaaB 900/9-3 and 9-5 is actually Vectra?

[Spiny Norman]

They reckon that SAAB engineered alot of GM's offerings out of their cars, so how much of the SaaB 900/9-3 and 9-5 is actually Vectra?

 

That's kinda what I was trying to find out. Does anyone actually know what sort of commonality there is between say a Saab 9-3 and a Vectra or an X-Type and a Mondeo?

[Split_Pin]

Nothing new though is it,look at the british car industry from the 50's onwards.

 

The Wolseley 1500 and Riley 1.5 were based on the Morris Minors. My Minor book has a large section on them. They were even called Morris Majors in Australia.

 

Dunni about the SAAB things, but I just ordered a set of rear brake pads from my Vectra B and when they came there was no mention of my car on the box, only SAAB. So theres a start, all you SAAB drivers had better de-bastardise your cars and get Brembo calipers for the back so you dont have Vectra pads.

[Albert Ross]

They reckon that SAAB engineered alot of GM's offerings out of their cars, so how much of the SaaB 900/9-3 and 9-5 is actually Vectra?

 

That's kinda what I was trying to find out. Does anyone actually know what sort of commonality there is between say a Saab 9-3 and a Vectra or an X-Type and a Mondeo?

 

Yeah. They're all modern wank. Engines point the wrong direction and they have shit badges on them. That should do.

[dieselnutjob]

It's BX-405, Xantia-406, and C5-407, Citroen always gets in first with the new big car platforms. I believe hydropneumatic Citroens use struts that fit in the same space as Peugeot's conventionally sprung ones.

The 405 is similar enough to use BX rear suspension for the 4x4 models, the rear suspension unit looks quite similar to the 405's, except the 405 uses transverse torsion bars for springing.

 

That is basically Peugeot 305 estate rear suspension which I think may still live on in the Berlingo ? The 305 had horizontal rear springs, not torsion bars. The 305 and BX were very similar mechanically.

 

Then there is the Sharalaxy that was based on the B4 Passat, and wasn't the Corrado a Golf front end with Passat rear suspension ?

[cobblers]

What about volvo V40s? my mate had one and was blabbing on about how sturdy and great volvos are and wouldn't believe me when I told him it's just a proton wira with an engine out of a laguna. I even showed him loads of sites on the net explaining the situation but he's a simple man and the concept of rebadging is hard work for him to understand. He wouldn't believe me.

 

His father in law owns a Ford Galaxy and his dad drives a VW sharan and it's taken him 2 years to get over the fact that they are the same vehicle.

[Lacquer Peel]

 

That is basically Peugeot 305 estate rear suspension which I think may still live on in the Berlingo ? The 305 had horizontal rear springs, not torsion bars. The 305 and BX were very similar mechanically.

 

I forgot about the 305. Wasn't the horizontal coil spring setup only for estates and vans?

 

I think the newest Berlingo, and various other small-medium PSA cars have VAG-style torsion beams with vertical coil springs.