437.4% APR, your car as security

[Spottedlaurel]

Yup, need £1500 in a hurry but own (or nearly own) a car? Easy just visit www.logbookloans.co.uk, put your car down as security, and then in a year-and-a-half's time you've paid them back £4180.80.Saw it advertised on a banner round our way somewhere. Surely nobody would really do that would they? I imagine the frightening rate of interest must be to cover all the defaulters and rubbish cars they seize.

[pogweasel]

Yes, they do. Amazingly. This company does a roaring trade in the less salubriuos parts of south & east London, according to my man in the know. That said I have heard of several occasions of folk 'beating the system' and leaving some poor schmuck to pick up the pieces. Goes like this:1) Buy a prestige car. Say a £20k Merc or BMW, always easy to shift. 2) After a few weeks, go to log-book-loans and hock it for £15k. 3) Apply to DVLA for a replacement V5, because you 'lost it'. 4) Recieve new duplicate V5 and get the motor on eBay pronto. 5) Abscond with the pickings. Log-book-loans will repo it from the new owner to recoup their loss and TOUGH TITTIES to the mug who got sucka'd. 6) See (1).

[Guest]

Wonder what sort of loan I'd be able to secure on the 323? Would they take all the brush painted primer into account?

[Cavcraft]

Very, VERY nearly came a cropper myself not too long ago with a car that had a 'log book loan' against it. Seller had mysteriously lost the V5 and MOT but had keys, some history and a few other bits. I started smelling a rat and got a lad I know to do an HPI. Just as well, the fuckers had a £750 of a loan still to pay against it. Most laughably of all after I'd phoned LBL (who were very helfpul and surprisingly forthcoming) and then called the sellers back they suddenly remembered they had given them the V5 and MOT as surety.Now the car in question was only worth about a grand maximum but that's not the point, it could have backfired on me big time.I can think of one way it'd probably be piss easy to get just enough stuff together to rip off unlimted amounts of people.

[outlaw118]

To be honest, you are, in the main, correct.I went for an interview with another well known finance company a couple of months ago, who was after an account manager - basically someone in charge of a team of drones foning up chavs and asking if they would mind paying back their loans.They lend on 3 levels; 1) Secured (against property, bricks and mortar), the APR on that varied according to risk, between 17.5% and 29.9%.2) Secured against vehicle, APR, again dependent on risk, between 19.9 and 39.9%. And you have to buy the car from them, you can't just mosy on down to Mr Ford garage and say "I'll have that shiny Mondingo please" andTHEN go to them for finance, you have to buy your worn smooth ex reps hack with 245k on for £1200 over book!3) Unsecured. APR up to ........................................58.9%!!!!!!!! Fcking Hell!!!!My (admiteddly small) principles sprang into life at this point, and I asked how they could justify such hideous/downright scandalous rates, and the bloke said, "Well, we're taking a risk on these people, we have to assume the loan won't ever be fully repaid. 50% of those who default will pay the first couple of months, then decide to stop, for whatever reason. By which time, they've covered about the first 7 or 8 months interest, in real terms and any potential depreciation on the car, over the "built in" depreciation, by them paying over the odds in the first place. that means we can snatch the car back, either put it back into stock, or punt it through the auction and not end up catching a cold on it".Theres more to this story, but suffice to say, I didn't take the job, despite him calling me back and offering more money. £30k a year plus car and bonuses would have been nice, but frankly, sleeping at night wins every time.

[pogweasel]

I had one of these finance things phone me up the other week. Said they would send me 3 'guaranteed buyers'. Basically the finance house select the cars out of autotrader, send the slags round to look at it. Seller needs to keep schtum at this point. If the buyer likes it, the finance house would send me a cheque for the FULL asking (no quibbles) and the buyer gets the motor at some absurdly inflated APR. Oh and they also wanted £79 off me up front for the privilidge. I told them to go fuck themselves OBV, not before enquiring as to just why these folk were so desperate to own a 53 reg ex-rep-mobile badly enough to hock themselves for years.All about the image, apparently. I remarked to the young lady that if these folk are both poor and desperate they really ought to be catching the fucking bus than bundling up years of depression for themselves. She did agree, but from a business perspective, my idea was not so GR8.

[Ross_K]

I'd be of the caveat emptor school of thought myself.If some mouth-breather wants a clapped out 53 plate Mondeo at 437% APR then best of luck to him. The fact that he'll be paying back 2.75 times what he borrowed is his problem. Sometimes the stupid deserve to be taken advantage of...If I was poor enough to be in LBL's target audience and needed a car, I think I'd prefer to spunk a couple of dole cheques on a £150 shitter that I'd at least own outright.

[Mr_Bo11ox]

I had one of these finance things phone me up the other week. Said they would send me 3 'guaranteed buyers'. Basically the finance house select the cars out of autotrader, send the slags round to look at it. Seller needs to keep schtum at this point. If the buyer likes it, the finance house would send me a cheque for the FULL asking (no quibbles) and the buyer gets the motor at some absurdly inflated APR. Oh and they also wanted £79 off me up front for the privilidge. I told them to go fuck themselves OBV, not before enquiring as to just why these folk were so desperate to own a 53 reg ex-rep-mobile badly enough to hock themselves for years.All about the image, apparently. I remarked to the young lady that if these folk are both poor and desperate they really ought to be catching the fucking bus than bundling up years of depression for themselves. She did agree, but from a business perspective, my idea was not so GR8.

I finds that story barely conceivable! OK you get the occasional crim who comes up with some clever finance deal that shafts every (normally destitute) customer that comes near, but these used to be one-offs and they usually ended up getting hassled to death by Roger Cook anyway. This story suggests there is a whole 'legit' industry doing this kind of thing, employing normal people in 'proper' jobs, whose task it is to fuggin royally stitch up skint halfwits who need wheels. Bring back hanging!

[pogweasel]

Absolutely true, I tell thee. Fair play to the fella that dreamed that one up, he's probably laughing it up in the carribean right now.

[ashmicro]

I dunno what the regs are over the water, but here in NI we still had the old green log books up until a couple of years ago, and it actually said on them that the registered keeper was not necessarily the actual owner. Helpfully, I can't find the new v5s for the Jag or Rover at the mo, but if there's some similar phrase on them, I wonder might that constitute some kind of get out for an unfortunate buyer? Hmm

[vicsmith]

I remember first seeing an ad for log book loans in the local press about 7 years ago, little tiny box advert telling you you could borrow up to £1500 against your car, must be K-reg or newer. Classy. Bet that was a proper set-up. I bet if you`d defaulted on that they`d have just thrown a propane cylinder through your window followed by a Swan Vesta, never mind taking the car. I used to sell a few cars through a finance broker, I remember one girl who bought a 206 that I had up at £2495, I had nothing to do with the actual finance agreement myself, I just got a cheque from them for £2300, but a couple of days later the rep mentioned that they`d had to put her on the last chance saloon finance and the APR was 70%.It`s not just the payments, that car was nearly 8 years old at the time, let`s say she doesnt look after it and has pretty much worn it out within a couple of years, she then owes thousands on something that is not only worthless but quite possibly in the scrapyard. Finance companies can be pretty nasty with the seller, too. I had one company ring me up about another 206, saying he`d got a buyer for it, could I take it off sale and he`d send me a cheque, these people who had never seen the car apparently definately wanted it. I agreed, the finance rep messed about, I heard nothing for over a week, a cash buyer came along, I told the finance rep to forget it, he very nearly started crying, got the customers he`d dripped up for the car to ring me and tell me what an awful man I was for selling their car (I`d never met any of these people) and then the finance rep told me that as he`d set up the finance (In secret, without actually ringing me to tell me what he was doing) I could not sell the car to the cash buyer, as the car now came up as being on finance if it was HPi`d or anything like that, thereby trying to railroad me into dicking off the cash customer and upholding the "agreement" with his tin pot finance shack.

[Cavcraft]

They also don't really give a flying one if you don't cough up and wreck the car. Happened to a mate years ago (not LBL though): they said they were coming for the car as he hadn't paid up and he said no problem, give him half an hour and he'd take it somewhere and smash it up.They actually welcomed him doing so as 'it was going to auction anyway and whatever amount it fetched they'd take off what he owed them'. He actually ended up cleaning and polishing it instead.

[vicsmith]

That`s brilliant! "Right I`m gonna smash this up" but he ends up breaking out the 6-piece showroom valeting set that he got for Christmas off his aunty 2 years ago.

[r.welfare]

I wonder how that'd work on eBay: "IF U DONT BUY THIS CAR I AM GONNA ENTER IT INTO AUTOGLYM CONCURS INSTEAD"

[The Reverend Bluejeans]

The world is full of idiots and you'll find them at Carcraft, Availableshite.com getting tucked up by some scratter in a Burton suit. I bought my house for cash maaaany years ago, same with cars. I don't owe anyone jack shit and I like it that way.In 1999 I bought a new Ka on Ford's own never-never. £5999 on the road with a years free insurance. I put a grand down, paid 127 quid a month for 2 years and did about 40k in 2 years before giving it back. 28'000 of those miles were 40p a mile so I charged out something like 11 grand over 2 years whilst paying out a total of 6800 including the car and fuel. I worked out that it wasn't worth paying the extra to own the car and selling it again. There was something like 200 quid in it and I couldn't be arsed.Sadly the mouth breathing sportwear mules with their shaven heads and tribal tattoos are too thick to realise you can work the system to your advantage. Just wanna have a 54 plate Veccy SRi on the drive, innit? To go with the tattoed council fishwife and ear ring adorned nippers.

[r.welfare]

There's a great thread on Honestjohn at the moment about Carcraft (I think), tales of folk getting stitched up by not being able to see the V5 (company policy, apparently) and loads of poorly-repaired accident damage. Which leads me to ask - why did they hand over the cash? Are they completely gullible and/or Ray Charles???

[andrew e]

In car-crafts previous incarnation car land I visted out of noseyness, there was a dimwit his wife and kids being told "yes that is a lot of money month, but what if your old car breaks down in the outside lane of the M25 with the kids in " SCUM PURE SCUM.As an aside whilst waiting for the misses at lakeside I popped into see the 4 and a half grand city rover on offer, or the 2005 Rover 25 for 7 grand. This was at easter.....

[Ross_K]

Carcraft are fucking scum. If I had time to spare, I'd get a 5 quid Ryanair flight to Rochdale (or wherever these fuckers operate from), "buy" one of their pieces of shit, stick it on a ferry to Ireland and drive it til the engine blew up (which would probably be sooner rather than later).That'd teach 'em.

[Cavcraft]

Could someone please supply a link to the HonestJohn forum and the debate about Car Crap?When I were in sales (garage equipment) we were told to break everything down to the lowest amount and I believe car sales people do the same.If you told the average Joseph Cockknocker that 153,000 mile Mondectra was going to cost him £250 per month and left it at that he'd probably disappear back to Aldi. You tell him that only equals 70p an hour (or whatever it is) then suggest most people spend more than that on fags/electricity/Stella/cat food/K-Seal for their Rover and it sounds attractive. Nice shiney cars that have just had a visit from DentMaster and the valeting machine look all modern and lovely in the showroom lights yet a site more shite 3 months down the line when you realise what the actual value is and how much this piece of shit cost you.One of my favourite ever quotes from punters has consistantly been 'oh, I wouldn't buy a car from an auction, they're all tarted up rubbish'. These very same people then whizz on down to Car Crap and the likes and buy from them.Where the fuck do they think these places get their motors from, the bastarding car fairy or something?

[vicsmith]

Wonder how they are bearing up now, with this "downturn" (which is a reality in fact) ? Hopefully not very well.With a bit of luck they`ll go completely to the wall like Yes car credit, another chain of huge sites that bought high mileage junk from the block and stuck £7000 across it.Incidentally their tactics are almost exactly the same as Kwik-fit`s and a number of other nationwide brand new part fitting centres. Woman turns up for a puncture repair, they see the child seats in the back, play the kid card and stich her up for 4 shockers, discs & pads and rear shoes, probably bill her about £800. I just don`t understand how they manage to get these people to part with so much money.

[Ross_K]

Could someone please supply a link to the HonestJohn forum and the debate about Car Crap?

The thread was edited to remove "libellous" comments and locked:http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=52054Here's a slightly older thread:http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/ ... tm?t=49372

[Cavcraft]

Cheers Ross, second link especially made interesting reading. One thing that bugs me personally, but I suppose is a reflection on some of the moronic car buyers out there, is people who complain they were ripped off because they paid too much for a car.They are never ripped off by paying over the odds, if they were too stupid to check out the current market prices then I'm afraid they get what they deserve.Being ripped off (in my opinion) is being sold a car that's a cut and shut, clocked, still on finance etc.Right, off to check out this 'blagger.com' site someone on HonestJohn mentioned...*Edit: pull up a chair, this could get interesting...http://www.blagger.com/db4/company_id/5 ... Craft.html

[pompei]

Fatha in law just bought himself a second hand Jag, but before so doing had a look at the Mec dealership. There was one he quite fancied with FMBSH, and they were upfront about showing him all the documentation - including a service bill with the words "would not pay for extra work" written on it.Naturally he walked away. I wonder next time if the dealer will be so "transparent"?

[outlaw118]

Just another addendum on CarCrapt, went to the Lakeside branch, almost exactly a year ago, as they were advertising "0% Finance on Selected Models".Bunch of robbing bastards.Example 1) Old shape clio 1.2 campus, 1 owner 18months old 11,000miles. £6695.Compare with renault main dealer £6995 for a brand new one. But, as slimy-bloke-in-cheap-suit said "0% finance sir, think about the money you'd save". Give me strength...Example 2) Puggit 206 "Verve" 55 reg - 14 months old, 15,000 miles, £7495. Local main dealer sold Madam one, in silver with less miles, full tank of juice, same reg etc for £500 less. And they relieved us of her old Clio, for £595 without batting an eyelid, and indeed, without even seeing it. carcraft said "Probably best you scrap it sir, we'll knock off £195 for no part exchange if you sign on the line today".Knobs.