In Car Entertainment question

[carlo]

Could anyone give a tip or two about an ICE query.

 

I'd like to get a system in my 405 which sounds at least comparable to the old 406, and in fact most other big cars I've had.

 

I've just put in a Pioneer DEH-7300BT bluetooth head unit, and it still sounds weak and puny. CDs sound crap, FM radio a bit better. A local shop reckons I need to put in a £300 sub-woofer, but won't that just make it much more 'thumpy'? What I'd really like is a punchy, ballsy but clear sound. Best ever unit I've had was in my old Nissan Maxima, but that had an amplifier in it, and better speakers no doubt.

 

What's the most important part for good sound; is the head unit, speakers, amp, woofer etc etc.??

 

Confused of Devon.

[tonedepear]

In my experience decent speakers can make a difference to the OEM system in most cars, so I'd say replacing them would make most difference. OEM speakers, specially of 405 vintage probably don't have much about them. FWIW I''ve found boggo £15 kenwood efforts are usually 100 x better than standard fit, so you don't need to be spending tons.

 

They're a bit like having decent tyres on, it doesn't matter what else there is going on in the system they're the bit that transmits it to your ears.

[Spiny Norman]

+1 to the 'fit better speakers' option.

Find out what sizes the car takes and replace them with same size equivalents from any of the major car audio brands. £20-£40 a pair should bring real improvements.

 

I'd give the subzzzz a miss if you listen to music as opposed to thump-thump noise, they sound dreadful with normal music.

[Negative Creep]

Yep, decent speakers are far more important in obtaining decent sound. There's nothing wrong with having a sub either, although what to get depends on the type of music you listen to. I have a 10 inch one in the boot, which provides a nice bit of kick without rattling the windows and annoying the neighbours

[Guest]

I'd be inclined to agree with Mr. Pear.

 

Bass is unidirectional, and most subs have to go in the boot and accentuate the low frequencies to the point where the rest of the system's overwhelmed. Unless the rest of your set up is upgraded as well, you'd be paying £300 to lose some boot space and then have the surface of the lid reflected back at you. Plus, it's very dependent on the type of music you like. If I'm honest, that stereo shop sound like a bunch of chavs who whack subs in cars because everyone else has one, rather than thinking about what would actually sound good.

 

Pioneer, Alpine and Kenwood are the makers to go for if you want to start upgrading the speakers, which is indeed the best part to start. They'll be a list somewhere of the diameter of the cones in the doors and on the A pillars if your 405 has them. The only thing I would advise is that the drivers of the new speakers will probably be deeper than the standard Peugeot units, and their fitting holes may be different. Some creative massaging of the door cards may be needed so that the speakers fit flush in the door and for the grilles to go back on. I found I had to scalpel some of the clear plastic sheeting out from behind the speaker rests in the door of my 306. I also got a mate to convert the two pole fixtures on the Pioneers I used to the standard Peugeot fitting plugs, so nothing in the door got cut up. Did require some scrapyard diving though - so I had some spare connectors.

 

SCTSH_ANDY has an all Kenwood set up in his Mi16. I can ask the sizes and specs if you want? It sounds pretty good for what he spent - and SCTSH_ANDY gets the best value out of every damn component on that car, I can assure you.

[carlo]

I'd be inclined to agree with Mr. Pear.

 

Bass is unidirectional, and most subs have to go in the boot and accentuate the low frequencies to the point where the rest of the system's overwhelmed. Unless the rest of your set up is upgraded as well, you'd be paying £300 to lose some boot space and then have the surface of the lid reflected back at you. Plus, it's very dependent on the type of music you like. If I'm honest, that stereo shop sound like a bunch of chavs who whack subs in cars because everyone else has one, rather than thinking about what would actually sound good.

 

Pioneer, Alpine and Kenwood are the makers to go for if you want to start upgrading the speakers, which is indeed the best part to start. They'll be a list somewhere of the diameter of the cones in the doors and on the A pillars if your 405 has them. The only thing I would advise is that the drivers of the new speakers will probably be deeper than the standard Peugeot units, and their fitting holes may be different. Some creative massaging of the door cards may be needed so that the speakers fit flush in the door and for the grilles to go back on. I found I had to scalpel some of the clear plastic sheeting out from behind the speaker rests in the door of my 306. I also got a mate to convert the two pole fixtures on the Pioneers I used to the standard Peugeot fitting plugs, so nothing in the door got cut up. Did require some scrapyard diving though - so I had some spare connectors.

 

SCTSH_ANDY has an all Kenwood set up in his Mi16. I can ask the sizes and specs if you want? It sounds pretty good for what he spent - and SCTSH_ANDY gets the best value out of every damn component on that car, I can assure you.

 

This advice is what I suspected, and goes totally against what this ICE shop were telling me. I can't remember the exact reason why, but they were giving me some flannel about it being pointless upgrading the speakers, I really 'needed' a subwoofer (for £300). Something about you could only stretch the speakers so far, or something. I've always thought an amplifier made a difference, although where I could fit one on the 405 is anyone's guess. Does the actual head unit not make a huge difference then? This Pioneer one is 50W x 4.

 

Would be very interested to hear about this chap's Mi16 wat, the speakers in 405s have seperate covers and are quite easy to get at.

[trigger]

I've always found decent speakers can make a hell of a difference, even going back to my Mk4 Escort days with 6x9's and a wooden parcel shelf and doing laps around Colchester with "Sweet like chocolate" cranked up to volume 11.

 

You should be able to find some cheap aftermarket speakers the same size as the OEM one's, normally a make like Maystar which will sound good and bolt straight in.

[freebird]

Would it just not be a whole lot cheaper and simpler ( if im not making it all sound too simplistic) to get hold of some speakers out of a 406?

I would assume that most modern cars are not massively dimensionally disimilar so, theoretically, an awful lot of speakers would fit the 405 without any great headaches and they would almost certainly be cheaper than after market ones unless they are e'bay chod.

Modern Transits have very good door speakers, im just waiting for mine to be taken out of service and be replaced before I "borrow" them....

[gallondrunk]

Scrounging speakers from more upmarket cars is a pretty good idea. I once kitted out a Corsa with Scorpio speakers for a fiver a pair from Looms in Derby and they sounded bloody excellent combined with a decent Sony HU.

 

Subs can sound good, but people are often ignorant as to how to properly set them up. Then again, if all people are after is THUD THUD THUD, they probably don't care.

 

One of the worse mistakes in a car setup is to use both a sub and parcel shelf speakers at the same time. Since the theory with parcel shelf speakers (6x9s in particular) is that you use the boot as a sub enclosure, putting in a sub *as well* just fucks the whole thing up acoustically. If i remember right, the 405 has such a parcel shelf setup with normal speakers, so I'd suggest a sub would just sound awful. Your milage may vary.

[DSdriver]

Speakers need good ohms.

Right - I've got that one out of the way.

I'd start by checking what ohmage your existing speakers are, old ones tend to be about 4 ohms which is nowhere near enough for modern radios. Fortunately the new speakers with more ohms made by Alpine etc can usually be got to fit in the same space. I bought a pair to fit in the pods in my DS from Halfrauds. Its worth going in to check what they have got cos they do some bargains but do not talk to anyone with teenage spots. However old they are.

[pompei]

The stereo in my Saab 9-3 is rubbish and apparently it's nigh on impossible to change the unit as it's wired into all sorts of other stuff. Those in the know on the forums say that upgrading the speakers will make a real improvement. I've not done mine yet but the recommendations are Boston Acoustics S35 (3 1/2 inch) in the front (dash mounted in the Saab) or JL Audio TR 350 CXi and then Kenwood KFC 6950S 6 x 9, or Soundstream SST 6.9 in the rear. It was also stated that round speakers are better than oval speakers and you can get a 6.5 inch conversion plate and then use Polk db651 speakers.

 

I've no idea if any of that is of any use but it's a few ideas that I have come across

[Lacquer Peel]

406 speakers are a straight fit into the 405 and much better quality, I did this upgrade to my last 405. The horrible music I listen to buggers up speakers quite easily, the old ones were in tatters.

[dieselnutjob]

the standard sound system in my 607 is fantastic, no sub woofer

it has a four channel amp and some decent speakers, all made by JML I think

[Spiny Norman]

Best standard fit sound system I've ever heard was the Dolby Pro-logic system in my (otherwise shite) Volvo C70. It had something like 13 speakers and produced an incredible sound for a car stereo.

[Shep Shepherd]

Best standard fit sound system I've ever heard was the Dolby Pro-logic system in my (otherwise shite) Volvo C70. It had something like 13 speakers and produced an incredible sound for a car stereo.

 

The eight-speaker CD/radio/cassette job in TV2 is the best standard-fit stereo I have ever had in a car. I believe that the head units for the 70 Series cars were made for Volvo by Alpine

 

The Volvo manages with a period-correct Blaupunkt "Melbourne" head unit (originally fitted to an E-Class Merc), a boot-mounted 10 disc CD changer (previously fitted to my erstwhile Rover 200) and four factory-fitted door speakers. I imagine that it would be easy enough to replace the speakers in order to improve the sound, but as they are riveted to the door cards, so I haven't bothered trying

[Timewaster]

Speakers need good ohms.

Right - I've got that one out of the way.

I'd start by checking what ohmage your existing speakers are, old ones tend to be about 4 ohms which is nowhere near enough for modern radios.

 

I used to sell car audio and I can honestly say I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I thought house speakers were generally 2 ohm and car speakers were 4 ohm except for a few specialist subwoofers which are 8 ohm "stable" so you can double them up.

 

Am I wrong?

 

I agree with the others, your salesman has a warehouse full of subs he can't sell. So long as your head unit is reasonable then its all down to the speakers.

[6ettinold]

'...all made by JML I think'

 

Hehehehe! I only saw overpriced squegees, miracle dry doormats and dishcloths on the JML display stand in our local Poundstretchers!! I've only ever bought speakers off ebay. Amongst others Ive got some cracking Vibe 5" components with yellow Kevlar cone thingys. These are great for mid and high frequencies and sound superb. Won these for around £20 about 3 years ago and are now in their third installation. Managed to elbow them in the doors of my Mazda Bongo. Would've caught the glass when the windows were opened - found a shop - "Liquid Ice" on ebay selling ready made MDF speaker spacer rings - £5 a pair. Have a good look as he seems to sell them at different prices - check his shop if anyone is interested. These were available in different thicknesses - my speakers were mounted behind the door card and there was a bit of a gap between the factory speakers and the actual grille on the door card - so I could ude the rings and move the speakers forward to clear the glass.

 

Not worth messing with the jigsaw for a £5. Also a solution for adapting speakers to fit weird factory shaped apertures?? A bit of MDF can't harm accoustics either. I also reckon the OP is looking for a cost effective solution - so Polk and the like are perhaps out of the question??

I'm not sure what is below the rear shelf on the 405 - but if he can, I'd stick a pair of 6x9's in if possible - there are a zillion to choose from and they're cheap - avoid Halfrauds like the plague and have a look at the branded ones on fleabay.

 

I agree regarding Subs. I've got an old Magnat 12" sub in a suprisingly small box and an ancient Philips amp - boosts the low frequencies that no 6x9's could ever achieve. I'm 42 and my missus does worry! People seem to think I'm the oldest Chav on the estate but as I understand it at 70 mph the road and engine noise drown out all lower frequencies from normal speakers.

 

Re- Volvo - my old V70 had the Dolby surround system with centre speaker - I miss the stereo and that 5 cylinder turocharged engine. Had several Saab 9000's with standard set up - all with a Nokia ( I think ) amp under the drivers seat. Fantastic sound. Had a 4 door 9000CD with the boot and a factory fitted optional 2nd amp and 6x9 sized woofers - it was a K regd beast with ( I think ) 12 speaker set up. When i scrapped her I got more for the stereo and speakers on ebay than the car cost me.

[Pete-M]

If you can find a Jeep Grand Cherokee in a scrapyard with the optional "Infinity Gold" stereo, get the speakers and the amp (amp is under rear seat) then get an electronics genius to wire it up.

[Shep Shepherd]

If you can find a Jeep Grand Cherokee in a scrapyard with the optional "Infinity Gold" stereo, get the speakers and the amp (amp is under rear seat) then get an electronics genius to wire it up.

 

Speaking of gold-standard car stereos, I wonder if the "Mondeo Gold" stereo system from the mark 1 Ford Mondeo Ghia and Si can be easily fitted to other cars in the Ford range? I was given a demonstration of the system at the 1992 International Motor Show in Birmingham and was very impressed with it

[DSdriver]

Speakers need good ohms.

Right - I've got that one out of the way.

I'd start by checking what ohmage your existing speakers are, old ones tend to be about 4 ohms which is nowhere near enough for modern radios.

 

I used to sell car audio and I can honestly say I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I thought house speakers were generally 2 ohm and car speakers were 4 ohm except for a few specialist subwoofers which are 8 ohm "stable" so you can double them up.

 

Am I wrong?

 

 

No, I think you are right... I was mixing up ohms and watts.

[dieselnutjob]

'...all made by JML I think'

 

Hehehehe! I only saw overpriced squegees, miracle dry doormats and dishcloths on the JML display stand in our local Poundstretchers!! .

 

Sorry it's JBL

[SambaS]

I fitted an 1600 watt Vibe Sub and amp box combo Halfords job to the Samba. When that ceased to be my everyday car I stuck it in the XR3 and felt almost guilty that I was doing it, the XR3 should have retired from its life of bass and that. Just I cant abide by crap sounding speakers in the car I use everyday. I really want to fit a tape player. Just so I can use my tape holders =) Managed to fix the tape player in my FSO, it sounds terrible but I let it off. Since I was 17 I've always had at least one car with A* sound quality, as the car has always been my home away from home and music is my other love. I've 4 1970s floor speakers at home each with 12" bass drivers and a pair of Celestion Ditton 150s. Whether its the Dire Straits or the latest DnB Vinyl release it sounds as it should