"Who will rid me of this turbulent flippin 306 brake pain!?"

[nigel bickle]

Richard- copper pipe is pretty forgiving.As long as its a reasonable approximation, it'll seal.

Deburring? I havent bothered in years, as long as its cut fairly straight. The end of the pipe is folded over into the flare anyway.

 

Dont be too precious about the 'correct' tools -these will take reasonable amounts of abuse

[scooters]

thanks folks -

well I've just spent the last hour swearing under the car - the pipes are steel and not in good nick and the joints are well and truly rusted together I rtemoved one which was so rotten it ebentually snapped on me - the others I have soaked in WD40.

 

The annoying news is that there are two very long pipes which run from the engine bay to the back axle - they are steel and for most of the route are covered in plastic and in good condition - it is the last 2 feet or so which are bad - now replacing these is goig to be a pig - so question:

 

will my flaring tool work on steel pipes?

 

and steel pipes will have to be cut with a hack saw

 

ideally I want the to keep the long pipes as is as much as possible.

 

ta

[nigel bickle]

Your tool wont touch steel -it'll die in the (vain) attempt.

Cut it off at the front so you can get a ring spanner on the rusted nut. Tape the copper pipe to the end securely and feed it through slowly. You'll need to unclip/ reclip as you go. Once in place add appropriate new fixings.

 

Jobs a bitch -have fun

[scooters]

thanks fella-

 

have examined the pipes and joints at the bottom of the engine bay - in typical 306 form they are very good indeed - sos looks like a big jacking job tomorrow (if it doesn't rain) axel stands all round and safety blocks - old ones out - new ones in running the length of the car - new rear end ones - fill up the fluid - bleed all round - job done...(or so he hopes)

[darkfour]

I'm in the process of redoing the entire brake lines on my new toy.

 

We're not allowed to use copper lines here, so steel it is and in this case 3/16". To deburr the inside I've been using 1/8" drill bit as it's the perfect fit. The double flares are a b1tch to do as it seems easier to make lopsided flares than true ones. No matter how many times you practice and get them perfect on some test pipe when it comes to the real thing it nearly always screws up.

 

These have been invaluable to get the pipes in shape without kinking it.

 

Here's the just a small part that's completed.

[Fat_Pirate]

Last thing you should be worrying about is brakes, Mr 'Four...

 

[M'coli]

Why the need to use steel? Is this true also of the northern states?

[darkfour]

I believe it is true in most states as copper ones don't meet the DOT tests for bursting pressure or some such. If you mention you want to use copper on any forums over here you get laughed at.

[gtd2000]

It's great working on cars in the sunshine states in the USA - all of the unions normally just come apart naturally - unlike here in Scotland where almost everything is a bitch after a couple of years.

 

My 1995 Nissan 240SX still has brake pipes that look like it just left the factory! That said, I'm possibly doing a petrol tank swap next month due to a leak - they make them out of plastic and they eventually crack...never saw that coming

[scooters]

cocks!!!

 

3rd full day of working on the brake pipes of the 306...cheese eating surrender monkey workshy layabout bodges the whole smelly lot of them....crap at sea battles as well....the problem being that the car has been put together for the conveinience of the lazy PSA workforce rather than the mechanic who has to service it...corners are cut - ie no rustproofing on specific and important nuts - the steel brake lines are wonderfully protected under the car in rubber coating but in the front wheel arch are only covered in black paint...why????? the mose likly area for damage and they haven't proteced it...???

 

I mis my Volvo 240...that was a doddle to work on - the yugo was even easier - this evil garlic munching armpit hair nuzzling, poor layby toilet habits gallic golgotha is designed to make life difficult for you..I sear...they are doing it on purpose...still haven't forgiven us for sinking their fleet in WW2...bitter miserable frog chomping unwashed cunts

 

I started off looking at replacing the brake pipe in the two front wheel arches and re routing the pipe in a sensible way through the arch rather than under it where all the mud/stones are. The other bit was a six inch section at the rear of the car.

 

BBecause EVERY SINGLE FUCKING JOINT has rusted solid I jave had to replace whole pipes and where thoise pipes meet splitters, replace the pipes there as well as tthe fucking splitters are in such a fucking inaccessible place you can't get enough spanner to tighten the lines which means you have to fucking build the splitters and re fit ...removing the splitters means replacing more pipe.

 

You see the Pug pipes are steel - this makes it impossible to cut out sections.

 

So I have essentially replaced the entire brakeing system and I am still not finished because the fucking flexi hose joints are rusted solid to the hard pipe male connectors - I have been working at all four nuts for about 6 hours in total - cans of WD40, moleys, hammers, spanners, heat ...you name it and all I have succeded in doing is removing the skin from my arseing knuckles and swearing a lot.

 

So I'm going to have to go and buy new flexi pipes all round and DRILL out the fuckers.

 

Steel fucking prake pipes!!!...death trap as well because at least 3 critically thin areas of corrosion were hidden from view.

 

I reckon anouther 2-3 hours.

 

Have had no time to do any undersealing or anything - not fucking happy and my faith in shite cars has been sorely tested i the last 3 days - I have no choice because I need the car and we only have the 2 at the momnt....roll on BX!!!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Stop blaming everybody else and get on with it!

 

What you are dealing with, is the norm of replacing brake pipes on old cars i'm afraid. The whole lot is invariably rusted to fook.

[dollywobbler]

And bear in mind that it was those lazy sods* in Coventry who nailed it together, not the French.

 

* I say this only because I know someone from Coventry who still maintains that Cov-built cars are better than Birmingham built ones. Obvious nonsense!

[scooters]

Stop blaming everybody else and get on with it!

 

 

nothing wrong with having a pop at the French for no reason whatsoever...

 

I kept a track of the time I have spent actually making progress and the time spent sorting risted nuts, bodged fittings etc...I reckon changing the pipes on one of these is a good days work ...nearly 70% of the time I have been spending on this has been sorting out all the crap - Iudget a day to sort and worse tell the Mrs it's a day's work - end up spending 3 and a half days using 50ft of copper and having to buy flexihoses as well to replace the perfectly sound flexihoses that I am gonna have to cut off. Getting serious earache from her. more so cos I am not exactly well at the moment and am back into hospital next week - I need to finish this before I go because I won't be able to post op and the MOT is due mid October

 

If ths was a toy - fair enough - as it is a tool and is my only car at present -it is a fucking headache - at least on the positive side, once finished it won't need any fucking brakes for a while! I also dealt with some potentially dangerous corrosion - some of the old pipes came apart in my hand

 

Lesson - next time I buy a tool with steel brake pipes - have a bloody good look at them!

[Mr_Bo11ox]

Brake pipes are one of the first things to gop on the bodyshell after its been painted, then EVERYTHING else goes on top of them. Theres no strength in them and they are steel so they rust. Basically they are always a total bastard to do. What sort of tool is it that you're using?

[scooters]

And bear in mind that it was those lazy sods* in Coventry who nailed it together, not the French.

 

* I say this only because I know someone from Coventry who still maintains that Cov-built cars are better than Birmingham built ones. Obvious nonsense!

 

 

You see! inisdious bastards have infected us!

 

even so - I would like to get my hands on the scrawny neck of the design engineer who decided it was a good idea to place the two split junctions at the foot of the bulkhead but on the bend so half is inaccessible and in such a place you can't get a BP spanner on them bcause of the suspension components...especially when there is an area the size of siberia of empty bulkhead at the top of it where they could hav mounted the split

[scooters]

Brake pipes are one of the first things to gop on the bodyshell after its been painted, then EVERYTHING else goes on top of them. Theres no strength in them and they are steel so they rust. Basically they are always a total bastard to do. What sort of tool is it that you're using?

 

 

I've got a sealy flaring tool and cutter - works a treat -TBH the problem is not making the new pipes - they are easy and now the engine bay gleams with shiny cooper in..no, the real problem is ripping out the old piping and undoing the male fitments into the bts I need to keep - usually totaly rusted even the brake spanner will round them. I'm using WD40, mole grips (where I can get some purchase) and will have to drill out the four flexi junctions as they have had it - I've spent all day on these four nuts.

 

It's not a difficult job just tricky and frustrating.

[Volksy]

Can you not chop the pipes right up to the ends and fit a socket over to undo? (No jest intended)

[ashmicro]

Can you not chop the pipes right up to the ends and fit a socket over to undo? (No jest intended)

 

 

+1. I did this on a Renner.

[scaryoldcortina]

+2. I do that as a matter of course. Don't even try the pipe spanner, just cut the pipe off with side cutters and bash an 11mm hex socket over it.

[M'coli]

+3 on cutting the pipe off and using a socket on the nut.

[dieselnutjob]

I have a feeling my 604 will fail on rusty pipes next week. Maybe it would be easier to undo at the master cylinder and at each flexi hose and then just rip the whole freekin lot out, junctions an all. Probably won't though. Might even pay the mechanic as brake pipes is something that I really really hate.

[scooters]

Can you not chop the pipes right up to the ends and fit a socket over to undo? (No jest intended)

 

 

tried that - even used one of those special sockets which acts on the flats instead of the corners - no joy..a big problem is they are screwed into the flexihoses so you have to anchor the flexihose before you can try and undo the nut - pisspoor design = mole grips on the flexi and then go at the fittment like mad with everything you've got -

[ashmicro]

I know it is necessary in this instance, but it sounds like one of those jobs we've all had where everything possible is a ballix, and you wished you'd never started.

[scooters]

I know it is necessary in this instance, but it sounds like one of those jobs we've all had where everything possible is a ballix, and you wished you'd never started.

 

 

yeah -sorely tests your patience. So far this 306 has cost me nearly 5 days of work getting it sorted.

 

Mind you, the engine is sound and when finished the following will have been done:

 

new:

handbrake cables

rear pads (drums refurbished)

discs

pads

copper brake lines

flexi hoses

front door locks

boot lock

rust treatment throughout (Vactan)

zinc primed underneath

unserseal

injectors

reconned lucas pump

timing belt

water pump

engine mounts

rear wiper

wiper blades

cv boots

rustproofed and repainted wheels

refurbished spare wheel carrier...

fixed sunroof

 

ok, it will be a long way from a minter but given the high spec of this rare D Turo: 10 disc changer, premium sound system, sunroof, meridian front and rear bumpers, front foggys, clear indicators, metallic paint...184k on the clock ...and since the new engine mounts have gone in it drives better than ever...it is worth doing the work..at the end of the day I'll end up with a car I will know pretty much inside out and a reliable, tough daily and long distance hack.

 

I think the hassel of the last few days is that it has been off the road when I needed it. I personally need to have a toy in reserve as I am not the best of spanner wavers and jobs always take longer than planned.

 

Looking forward to the BX especially as BX's have hydraulic pipes carved out of granite so tough are they!

[Guest Len H]

Why are you replacing all the brake pipes anyway?

[scooters]

Why are you replacing all the brake pipes anyway?

the pipes were not in great condition but the main problem is with the location and lack of access access to the 3 way splitters.

 

steel pipes rules out chopping out and patching in sections because I don't have the tools to flare steel.

 

The intial plan was to replace the two front hard lines and the two rear ones and one of the long lines. The cylinder to splitters were ok. When I tried to remove the male couplings from the splitters I ran into problems - more so when I tried to remount the new pipes - there is literally no space to get any sort of spanner leverage which makes a tricky job impossible. Therefore the only solution was to either dismantel the front suspension to get enough spanner room or remove the splitters and mount the new lines before reinstalling as a complete made up troika, this obviously necessitates cutting out the pipes I didn't plan to replace.

 

One of those jobs when you realise, after a bit of swearing and delusion, that the best strategy is just to start again.

 

I am using it as an opportunity to reroute some of the more eccentric routes. he front wheel arches are a great example of this with the OEM route going under the arch whereas the accepted reroute amoungst the OMG PUG306 BRIGAYDE is to route though one of the holes in the wheel arch - means you onl need a 1 foot pipe with 3 bends in it.

 

The XUD engine is the only thing that is keeping me going on this one - it's nice to have a car that seems to sip gas AND is practical (for a change)

[Father Ted]

Looking forward to the BX especially as BX's have hydraulic pipes carved out of granite so tough are they!

Whats the weather like on your planet?

 

BX pipes rot same as brake pipes, even the plastic coated ones on later cars. And Rubber low pressure pipes perish and are located in strange hidden places.

[scooters]

Looking forward to the BX especially as BX's have hydraulic pipes carved out of granite so tough are they!

Whats the weather like on your planet?

 

BX pipes rot same as brake pipes, even the plastic coated ones on later cars. And Rubber low pressure pipes perish and are located in strange hidden places.

 

 

yeah but relatively they are a tad tougher

 

plastic coated ones are a nightmare - the 306 ones are plastic coated and when you check the lines by running a thumbnail along it - you get an ominous crunch over what looks like a solid bit...makes you think about that 80mph emergency anchor incident on the M90 last month -

 

Replacing all the pipes on the BX Is part of the long term plan for it

 

mnde mentions a low pressure system leak so suspect a new little octopus will be needed.

[Father Ted]

Replacing all the pipes on the BX Is part of the long term plan for it

 

mnde mentions a low pressure system leak so suspect a new little octopus will be needed.

I toyed with the idea of making a copper piped(big) octopus and locating it on the bulkhead, I drew up some designs for it but that was as far as it went as all my BX's never sprang a leak there (and if it aint broke....)

[ashmicro]

I know where Scooters is coming from. My mate got a 97 Rover 214 SLi bubble for his daughter Tasmin which was structurally sound but needed a bit of spannering as it had been sat idle for about 5 years. I did new brake pipes/discs/shoes/handbrake cable/rear cylinders, an engine and 'box rebuild etc, as well as the little things like quietening down the wiper motor and so forth. All the wee bits add up. As a result, Tasmin now has a tip-top wee car that the insurance isn't too dear for, we know it's safe and she takes care of it because her Dad bought it and I sorted it.

 

I'm no Fleming Bell when it comes to spannering, but as an ex-Austin Rover mechanic I had a bit of a head start in this case.

 

Fair play to you Scootz.