Tech question - electrics- update - v low alt voltage...

[scooters]

Forgive me for posting a new Yugo thread - it's a technical question and I don't want it t get lost in my Yugo thread as it is quite urgent.

 

OK - the day after I gt the car home from the drive north from Niges I replaced the battery which died on me. I put it down to an aged battery and it was a wee bit lazy on the start.

 

Fast forward to my 100 miles on Saturday - no problem but n arriving at destination the new battery was flat again - jumped it - it wasn't recharging so tightened the fan belt which was a bit loose -when this didn;t do the job I replaced the positive wire from the alternator to the starter motor which was dodgey and cleaned and tightened all electrics. I then fixed the fuel lifter as described in the other thread,,,anyway by 8.00pm last night the car recharged on the tick ver and started no problem this morning.

 

However, 100 miles later the battery was dead when I stopped at home. this time no jumping would start it so I guess this brand new battery is now totalled.

 

I am at a bit of a loss - it looks like the battery is getting fried at speed - ie when under load - I suspect the voltage regulator but it is a new one that Nige fitted...

 

any ideas - I will need to get a new battery to test the outout f the regulator.

 

There is a slight possibi9lity that the battery could have been recharged on the return trip but went flat due to vltage leakage as I left the car for 6 hourd before starting it again - I suspect a dodgey fag lighter socket,

 

Unless anyone has any bright ideas I will get a new battery and test the regulator - if it is solid then the fault was the wire I replaced and the leaky fag lighter - if it is belting out too much current I will replace...

 

what t the bodgers think?

[shite_meister]

You need to get a multi-meter and see how much power the alternator is kicking out, if you can't borrow one they're dirt cheap to buy.

[scooters]

yeah - got one but need to get the thing working before i can measure it

[shite_meister]

Oh yeah, can you not save/recharge the battery you've got?

 

Obviously once its running check the charge rate then if that appears to be normal I'd be inclined to look at the battery, I bought a specific gravity tester yesterday for £6.00, its not a Numax battery is it? I wouldn't have thought an electrical drain would kill a battery on a running vehicle though so I'd be inclinded to say voltage regulator but as previously mentioned a multimeter is your friend here.

[scooters]

na it's a brand new unipart 360 generic lump - rather than theyugo specific one.

 

tried jumping from the renner this evening but zilch - nada - not a bean...

 

last winter my neighbours new mazda wouldn't start and i tried to jump it from the volvo 850 - wouldn't start cs battery was fragged,,,,

 

sadly no gaurantee as unipart only gaurantee for fitting to the right model.

 

the yugo proper battery is an 80 quid job - i baulked at thatr and got the 40 quid unipart one instead

[M'coli]

na it's a brand new unipart 360 generic lump - rather than theyugo specific one.

 

tried jumping from the renner this evening but zilch - nada - not a bean...

 

last winter my neighbours new mazda wouldn't start and i tried to jump it from the volvo 850 - wouldn't start cs battery was fragged,,,,

 

sadly no gaurantee as unipart only gaurantee for fitting to the right model.

 

the yugo proper battery is an 80 quid job - i baulked at thatr and got the 40 quid unipart one instead

Time to buy the Yogo specific job, methinks. However, these should be simple enough to be able to jump start without a bettery connected ( I did this with a batteryless-Imp), and then throw the multimeter across it.

[scooters]

tried that - no joy...good quality leads as well

 

I wonder if there is a starter issue - checked all the earths and all seem ok though...very perplexed

[grubbybuz]

what is your battery voltage at the moment? before going any further you need to know or you will end up going round the houses mate,you need to be sure you have the 12.5 volts or so in the battery but please bear in mind this is no indication it is fully charged.

working multimeter is reall usefull for diagnosing stuff like this, you really need to measure battery voltage with engine running to see if its charging too much or not at all bud,rule of thumb 13.5v to 14.5v at tickover with lights on

batterys can usually be brought back to life with a trickle charge providing battery has not discharged too deeply fnar

you would probably get quite far on a fully charged battery with a duff alternator/regulator if you are not using any other electrical consumers

do not rely on an alternator to charge a battery to its maximum capacity you need a proper charger for this as the alternator is only there to keep charge if you catch my drift

good luck bud

[Des]

If the alternator brushes are just on the point of wearing out it can create a chasing your tail situation, work when cold but not when hot or vice versa. You could try the ghetto multimeter, get it running and turn on headlamps and see if they brighten when you rev, this would indicate a charge, if they go pop this would indicate an overcharge.

[Station]

12v+ wire to starter terminal then goes to the alternator to complete the charging circuit. Connect a new wire (about half gauge of starter +) direct from starter terminal to the +V on the alternator.

I changed the starter/alternator and all the wiring on my whizzkid and it transformed starting/charging. Earths are v.important and overlooked. Current flows on the surface of a conductor.

Are you getting the battery bulb up at all on the dashboard? It's crazy, but the alternator uses the bulb as part of the circuitry on some cars, so if it's blown ... ? Tis a long shot.

There's another chance your alternator is buggered.

[Luxobarges_Are_Us]

Did you try contacting Unipart? If you go there and tell them "you sold me a daft battery", are they going to bother proving you fitted it to the wrong car or whatever as opposed to giving you a new one? In any event, they sell a car battery and I guess that, even without the model specified for fitment, the Sale of Goods act should allow you to declare the item as unfit for purpose and claim your money back. In the light of the above, I'd be rather shocked if they refused to just exchange it for a new one.

[barefoot]

I had a similar to this on the Scirocco which came with a new battery.

 

Sometimes would work sometimes wouldn't.

Had it tested by a couple of blokes in a couple of garages - pronounced OK

Kept on fucking about

Went back to garage (I am no mechanic) asked him to check specific gravity

Took the little tops off & two of the 6 were empty.

 

With hindsight it seems so stupid of me not to have looked myself earlier.

 

Just a thought & probably of no use.

[nigel bickle]

Interesting one. The battery on the car wasnt borked -when it left here, and I'd had no 'issues' after replacing the alternator. However- it was only charging on tickover.....

 

Is thew dash ignition light working? if the bulb has blown -it'll stop the alternator charging..

 

If the cars 'over charging' you'll smell it -rotten egg smell. Cant miss it -promise.

[M'coli]

When you say it won't jump, does the engine turn over at all? I've had jump leads that stopped working because the clips became tarnished and this gubbed the conductivity.

[scooters]

thanks for all your advice folks - Nige, I think that I will check the ignition bulb - not sure if it is blown but I suspect a faliure in the crcuit at that end...

 

Jump leads could also be tarnished - they have had a great deal of use.

 

Stopped in the factors today and got another battery a £40 360amp job...the stock battery for the Yugo is a 390amp job that comes in at a whopping £80

 

will drop this in tonight so I can get the car moved at least and run a few multi meter tests on the system

 

will report my findings

 

Nige - was the alternator you put in a new one?

 

cheers

 

R

[scooters]

Hmmm

Looks like the starter motor might well be the issue here.

[M'coli]

Is it a pre-engaged starter? Give the casing a dunt with a hammer, that sometimes works.

[michael1703]

Whats the earth lead like?

 

run a jump lead from neg to engine and see if it cranks

[Station]

The starter has a second wire from the key ignition switch - it's attached with a spade connector. If this isn't getting power, the starter isn't going to activate.

I'd try a new/scrappy starter motor! Probably the easiest big engine component to remove (two big bolts).

[scooters]

ok, after the missus went to bed I took the starter motor out - 3 wee bolts in a Yugo Station,,,

 

Anyway, I took it into the house and I noticed that the solenoid which on the Yugo pushes the starter crank teeth to engage with the flywheel via a - plastic - yes this is a Yugo - lever was very hot - so hot you could hardly touch it.

 

I stripped down the starter solenoid and motor - solenoid very sooty and starter motor filthy. When I came to remove the spindle I noticed that two of the bushes had popped out and were sitting on the spindle with the springs all over the place...

 

fortunately the bushes looked familiar and yes - they were almost the same as a bosch set I got for an old Volvlo some years ago - hurrah!

 

so, devising a clever method of compressing the springs using a kitchen icing device and my teeth I was able to secure the new bushes and springs in place using a pair od electrician's pliers to grip the prise points that secur the back of the spring. - gace the whole thng a jolly good clean and fitted it together then back into the car.

 

battery connected and turned the ignition - horrible thrumpwrr thrwrrr thrwrrr sound followed by a brief near start followed by nothing - I conclude that the starter motor has had it!

bugger!

 

not the sort of thing you wil find at the factors so am emailing the club tonight

[michael1703]

or park on a hill

[scooters]

lol -= no shortage of those in edinburgh!

 

I will get a push start tomorrow as I am not happy where I have left the car...

 

Damn shame that starting handles don'r exist for these as I drove a moggy for a year with a knackered starter and just hand cranked it....modern new fangled crap...grumble grumble moan wnge.....mutter

[M'coli]

I wouldn't be surprised if a factor could get you a starter for it - I thought the 903cc engine was basically a Fiat lump and similaor to Cinqucento engines.

[nigel bickle]

Should find that starter easy -try the online scrappers..

 

Alternator i fitted was brand spanking -put on because of weird charging.

The ignition light went out properly on startup -but would flicker a bit from 2000rpm upwards. never let me down -but a newie popped up at 99p -so it seemed good insurance!

 

I checked the car over before you arrived- knowing the length of journey. Battery was fine, giving no cause for concern.. Accepty they die without issue -but 2? Get a trickle charger on it 7it'll prob come back.

[scooters]

Just one of those things nige certainly I have no issue with you at all the car was very well set up and you even filled it up for me. I've done 1500 miles since I got it off you...the car has never had to do that before so hardly surprising that niggles will appear...it is 24 years old!

 

I wonder if the recharge issue you had was motor related. As the Altetnator links to the battery VIA the starter solenoid terminal if it has a resistance issue due to overheating then it could possibly be the source of the charge issue over 2000 revs and not the usual suspect of the voltage regulator.

 

As suggested above replacing the starter, alt, wiring and battery will only benefit the car. All I need to do is the starter and the wiring.

 

Have put out a request to the online scrappies. A new one from woods is 83.00 plus car and postage but woods kit is first class...there is a recon on eBay for 60 and they can post for next day. Have asked Phil dust at the club if he knows of a spare. I really need to keep costs down.

 

One good thing about all these issues is that it means I know the car v well and most of what can fail will be replaced

[gtd2000]

One thing I'd recommend, is to try and find a starter motor cross reference list, you'll be surprised that the same starter motor is used in various different vehicle with completely different part numbers.

 

I had to source a starter for my Hyundai Coupe (which wasn't the problem - it was the immobiliser wiring!) and funnily enough the starter from a 1974 Colt fitted!

 

I ended up getting a Bosch unit on eBay (brand new for £1 + £8.99 postage) supposedly to fit a Volvo Penta???

 

...WTF is that?

[scooters]

thanks gtd - just called my motor factor (he's a good un and has all the manuals) he checked the parts compatability as I was hoping a fiat Panda one would fit - sadly not the 45 and 55 had a different bell housing and sure enough when you look at the fiat one the mating surface is very different...bugger as I could get a fiat one for £20.

[scooters]

STOP PRESS!

 

neem on the very useful US Yugo forum...the symntoms I am describing around the sluggish cranking is typical of an ignition switch fault. Further research indicates that this type of switch - also found in the Fiat 1100 and the X1/9 are prone to faliure - and usually exhibits by a lack of ampage going through to the motor hence the slow rotation of the motor - this is bound to be the case if you have already dismantled and rebuilt the starter as you have probably already sorted the issue...

 

It might also explain why the steering cowal is missing from this car

[Guest Len H]

I ended up getting a Bosch unit on eBay (brand new for £1 + £8.99 postage) supposedly to fit a Volvo Penta???

 

...WTF is that?

 

It's Volvo's marine engine division.

[scooters]

i'm gonna hot wire it and see if that starts it - this would also explain why it wouldn't jump start yesterday...

 

i suspect that there are several issues to confront here all related and it is easy to mis interpret the symtoms - must write this down and be methodical